Have You Noticed The Irony? Quinn & Shanny...

[maxatlanta]

We brought in DQ to fix the defense. His philosophy? Run a consistent, relatively uncomplex scheme that allows his players to play free and without hesitation.

So one would expect Quinn to hire a coach that shares at least the basic philosophy of simplifying the scheme to a point where the players are able to use their talents without hesitation or uncertainty. Instead Shanny confuses an 8yr vet qb who is known for football iq, preparation, and work ethic. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

By all accounts the number one way to achieve this philosophy on offense personell wise is to invest in OL. We traded for Levitre and dropped Aso. We signed Person and dropped Hawley. We made our pass pro more difficult, by relying on trickery, instead of simpler and easier by relying on talent. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

Don't get me wrong, I want a complex offense. I just want it to be as complex as possible WITHOUT CONFUSING OR SLOWING DOWN THE PLAYERS. If DQ forces Shanny to limit himself to what the players can fully grasp at gamespeed HARMONY IN PHILOSOPHY CAN BE ACHIEVED. Otherwise I suspect DQ will look for an OC that compliments his philosophy rather than contradicts it.

[Atlfanstckndenver]

While there is certainly a difference between offense and defense when it comes to these philosophies, I definitely see your point. I think a simple scheme is more important on defense than on offense though. More than anything I think when it comes to defensive philosophy I prefer a 1 gap set of principles. That's the main crux of what Quinn has brought to our team. Offensively you are inherently dictating by default, because of that there is more room and freedom to mix it up. At least in theory. Just my .02

[Sidecar Falcon]

We brought in DQ to fix the defense. His philosophy? Run a consistent, relatively uncomplex scheme that allows his players to play free and without hesitation.

So one would expect Quinn to hire a coach that shares at least the basic philosophy of simplifying the scheme to a point where the players are able to use their talents without hesitation or uncertainty. Instead Shanny confuses an 8yr vet qb who is known for football iq, preparation, and work ethic. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

By all accounts the number one way to achieve this philosophy on offense personell wise is to invest in OL. We traded for Levitre and dropped Aso. We signed Person and dropped Hawley. We made our pass pro more difficult, by relying on trickery, instead of simpler and easier by relying on talent. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

Don't get me wrong, I want a complex offense. I just want it to be as complex as possible WITHOUT CONFUSING OR SLOWING DOWN THE PLAYERS. If DQ forces Shanny to limit himself to what the players can fully grasp at gamespeed HARMONY IN PHILOSOPHY CAN BE ACHIEVED. Otherwise I suspect DQ will look for an OC that compliments his philosophy rather than contradicts it.

There's been a philosophical change with the coaching. We aren't relying on players to make us better, but rather a scheme to make us better. The problem is when you implement a scheme, not everyone is going to get it right away or fit it. This in turn creates the issues you aforementioned. Basing the team based around a scheme rather than players takes time to build and will have many bumpy games in the process. However a scheme based team is built for longevity and allows for other players to be "plug and played" when someone goes down without missing a beat.

[FalconJim]

This is Shamahan's M.O. --- he has a history. And you have to blame DQ for bringing him in.....he should have known better than to bring a guy like him to a team who has an established QB, wide receivers, etc., then allow him to install a complex system that didn't work, for the most part.
I guess I have to chalk it up to inexperience, and a first year HC.

[sdogg]

It's exactly why I hated the Shannahan hire. It wasn't necessary to blow up the offense. It ruined what could have been a magical year.

[Mr. Captain Falcon]

So my question is if this system is that complex, does that mean everytime we draft an offensive player they are going to have little impact until year two when they finally grasp it?

[Duff_Man]

Pretty sure that's not irony.

[egoprime II]

Yeah, I made note of the irony a couple months ago. An HC who simplifies the D, while he hires an OC that complicates the offense. But there is more. How about gearing our O line to ZBS run blocking, then...passing the ball over 40 times a game? While running it maybe 20? Then telling our Pro Bowl QB to sit in the pocket, wait for routes to develop then go thru a progression of receivers? And Ryan tries to do all this while running plays off play action, which does not work because we don't run the ball enough? There is more, like taking our deep threat superstar WR and turning him into a possession receiver, and ignoring our young star RB, but honestly...its tiring to talk about.

[octoslash]

Irony is when a guy who runs the pancake station at IHOP is hurrying to get to work and gets flattened by a steamroller.

[KRUNKuno]

It's all very stupid.

There's really no way around it. We have pigeonholed our offense for the remainder of Matt's career.

[maxatlanta]

Its ironic we hired Shanny and Quinn, two coaches whose philosophies are near polar opposites. Its ironic we canned Smith/Nolan for trying to scheme a pass rush and then hired an OC who is trying to scheme pass protection. Its ironic we canned Koetter for lack of a running game when he came to us from the Jags where MJD led the league in rushing. There's irony everywhere.

[aerosmith67]

Yup

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

We brought in DQ to fix the defense. His philosophy? Run a consistent, relatively uncomplex scheme that allows his players to play free and without hesitation.

So one would expect Quinn to hire a coach that shares at least the basic philosophy of simplifying the scheme to a point where the players are able to use their talents without hesitation or uncertainty. Instead Shanny confuses an 8yr vet qb who is known for football iq, preparation, and work ethic. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

By all accounts the number one way to achieve this philosophy on offense personell wise is to invest in OL. We traded for Levitre and dropped Aso. We signed Person and dropped Hawley. We made our pass pro more difficult, by relying on trickery, instead of simpler and easier by relying on talent. FAILURE IN PHILOSOPHY

Don't get me wrong, I want a complex offense. I just want it to be as complex as possible WITHOUT CONFUSING OR SLOWING DOWN THE PLAYERS. If DQ forces Shanny to limit himself to what the players can fully grasp at gamespeed HARMONY IN PHILOSOPHY CAN BE ACHIEVED. Otherwise I suspect DQ will look for an OC that compliments his philosophy rather than contradicts it.

?

I don't think the offense taking time to learn a completely new offense is a failure in philosophy. Perhaps a failure in execution or a failure in expertise. But I dont think we did anything philosophically bankrupt.

It's a matter of proficiency, IMO. Freaking out because we saw our offensive performance decline in the process of a scheme shift would be like getting mad at a first year spanish student for not speaking fluently like a spanish major. It just doesnt make much sense based on what we know about how people think and behave.

[JDaveG]

?

I don't think the offense taking time to learn a completely new offense is a failure in philosophy. Perhaps a failure in execution or a failure in expertise. But I dont think we did anything philosophically bankrupt.

It's a matter of proficiency, IMO. Freaking out because we saw our offensive performance decline in the process of a scheme shift would be like getting mad at a first year spanish student for not speaking fluently like a spanish major. It just doesnt make much sense based on what we know about how people think and behave.

Thanks for relieving the headache this constant droning of "Shanahan's scheme is too complex and doesn't work and can't be executed by NFL players" mantra is giving me.

It's a West Coast Offense. It's not rocket surgery. But it is a skill, and skills are learned. Matt Ryan is not throwing INTs in the red zone because he's getting the reads wrong. He's throwing them because he's getting the reads late. It's so obvious, and is in line with EVERYTHING that EVERYBODY involved in the team has said all year. Matt hesitates and then makes a bad decision. When the hesitation goes away, those picks will be TDs.

The system isn't too complex for him to understand. It's too new for him to be comfortable with. That will sort itself out by the end of the offseason, I'd bet.

[FalconFanSince1969]

Apparently this is the first time in history a team has ever learned the wco.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Thanks for relieving the headache this constant droning of "Shanahan's scheme is too complex and doesn't work and can't be executed by NFL players" mantra is giving me.

It's a West Coast Offense. It's not rocket surgery. But it is a skill, and skills are learned. Matt Ryan is not throwing INTs in the red zone because he's getting the reads wrong. He's throwing them because he's getting the reads late. It's so obvious, and is in line with EVERYTHING that EVERYBODY involved in the team has said all year. Matt hesitates and then makes a bad decision. When the hesitation goes away, those picks will be TDs.

The system isn't too complex for him to understand. It's too new for him to be comfortable with. That will sort itself out by the end of the offseason, I'd bet.

Perfect post and something I really hadnt thought about in those terms.

You're spot on. So many of the big mistakes this year were on plays where he simply didnt look comfortable and seemed to be late on delivering the ball. Maybe people don't appreciate how tiny the window is to complete those sorts of passes in the NFL?

[KRUNKuno]

Apparently this is the first time in history a team has ever learned the wco.

No reason for our offense to now be a problem when it had been our strength.

[Sidecar Falcon]

Apparently this is the first time in history a team has ever learned the wco.

Psht... I change my scheme and starting QB every season in Madden. I always win the Superbowl.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Sidecar Falcon

[falconsd56]

[MAD597]

Ryan AND RW have issues learning KS system, that should tell you something. Id Quinn's be quick don't think philosophy was used on our offense we'd be in the playoff's.

defense was a nice surprise this year, offense was a complete disaster.

[Beast-N-Da-Sheetz]

The only irony I see is that most defenses we faced this year figured out our offense before Ryan did.

[FalconFanForLife]

i find it ironic we changed the offense at all given the fact that is WAS very potent before Shanahan arrived. All this team needed was a defense, and an offensive line. Adopting a new scheme was neither needed, nor has it been helpful at all. Now we can only "hope" the offense to can return to what is was before Shanahan's arrival.

Another year of Ryan's career wasted in Atlanta.