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Armed Militia Group Takes Over Federal Building In Oregon...plans To Stay For Years.


Leon Troutsky
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This is not a suitable disagreement for armed protests nor taking over a building. The way to handle it is to back off, cut any power to the building, and make sure the area is safe. Again, Ruby Ridge and Waco are more than enough example as to not escalating a large group.

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The ranchers for who they are protesting are peacefully turning themselves in today. The protesters should follow suit.

Yep.

When I initially read the story, I thought the prison sentence was ridiculous and excessive. Then I read more into what they had actually done and I'm a lot less sympathetic to the ranchers. Still think it's a little harsh, but not nearly as excessive as it seems at first glance.

As for the "protesters"...not even sure what to call them at this point since they are engaged in an armed takeover and occupation of a federal building...they do need to follow suit. But if they don't, I hope that at least a message gets sent to all of the other would-be insurgents wanting to "take back" the country for their cause about the perils of armed uprising against the federal government.

They've been spouting off about "taking back" the country and "revolution" and other insurgency type language for years now. Let's see how many are willing to put their arzes where their mouths are.

Edit: Reading this again, it might give the false impression that I'm supporting the federal government killing them all. When I talk about sending a message, I'm talking about very lengthy prison sentences for the entire lot of them. If they start shooting at federal agents, then bloodshed might be unavoidable. But I'd rather they rot in jail than make martyrs out of them.

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This is not a suitable disagreement for armed protests nor taking over a building. The way to handle it is to back off, cut any power to the building, and make sure the area is safe. Again, Ruby Ridge and Waco are more than enough example as to not escalating a large group.

The example presented in those cases is that either they'll get taken down or set their own building on fire.

I'm fine with freezing/starving the Bundy militia out but if they want to go down fighting I'm fine with them getting mowed down.

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Why are they taking over a federal building ?

Ranchers in Oregon shot an elk on a nature reserve and set it on fire to hide the evidence. They then started other fires to hide the evidence of the fire and then threatened a firefighter. When the judge changed the sentence to make it harsher the Bundy militia swooped in and took over the building as a way to protest federally protected land and perceived tyranny, threatening to kill anyone who tried to get them out.

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This is not a suitable disagreement for armed protests nor taking over a building. The way to handle it is to back off, cut any power to the building, and make sure the area is safe. Again, Ruby Ridge and Waco are more than enough example as to not escalating a large group.

**** that. They are occupying federal property. If it's not too much a burden on the wildlife, I recommend Sarin gas.
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Ranchers in Oregon shot an elk on a nature reserve and set it on fire to hide the evidence. They then started other fires to hide the evidence of the fire and then threatened a firefighter. When the judge changed the sentence to make it harsher the Bundy militia swooped in and took over the building as a way to protest federally protected land and perceived tyranny, threatening to kill anyone who tried to get them out.

I thought they had illegally killed several deers on federal land and set the fires to cover it up.

Also, that was apparently in 2001. I've read that they illegally set another fire in 2006, as well.

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So they were sentenced once, served the time and lawyer came back after that and had them charged as terrorist and sends them back to prison for the same crime? Umm can you even do that?

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So they were sentenced once, served the time and lawyer came back after that and had them charged as terrorist and sends them back to prison for the same crime? Umm can you even do that?

Wrong, as usual.

They were convicted of the arsons. Federal law sets a minimum sentence of 5 years. The judge (and I believe an appeals court) ruled the mandatory sentence was unconstitutional, so they were sentenced to a few months.

The prosecutors appealed to a circuit court, which ruled that the mandatory sentences were not not unconstitutional. So their sentences reverted back to the mandatory five years, minus time served (which means they have about 4 years left).

They were only convicted once and the issue of sentencing has to do with the constitutionality of the mandatory federal sentences.

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Wrong, as usual.

They were convicted of the arsons. Federal law sets a minimum sentence of 5 years. The judge (and I believe an appeals court) ruled the mandatory sentence was unconstitutional, so they were sentenced to a few months.

The prosecutors appealed to a circuit court, which ruled that the mandatory sentences were not not unconstitutional. So their sentences reverted back to the mandatory five years, minus time served (which means they have about 4 years left).

They were only convicted once and the issue of sentencing has to do with the constitutionality of the mandatory federal sentences.

That wasn't a declaration of fact it was a question.
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The two Oregon ranchers at the center of an anti-government protest that escalated into an armed takeover of a federal wildlife building said Monday that they will seek clemency from President Obama.

But Dwight Hammond, 73, and son Steven, 46, said they would "respect the rule of law" and report to prison Monday.

The Hammonds' statement made no mention of the controversy at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, where supporters said Monday they won't leave until federal land in the area is returned to state and local governments — and ranchers such as the Hammonds.

"Our purpose, as we have shown, is to restore and defend the Constitution," said Ammon Bundy, a rancher who is leading the protest along with his brother, Ryan.

The Hammonds were convicted three years ago of starting brush fires on federal property. They served short prison sentences, but a judge ordered them to return to prison for four years because the time they served did not meet minimum-sentencing laws.

The occupation began Saturday after an estimated 300 protesters marched through the nearby town of Burns. The Bundys and some of the protesters — it was not clear how many — then headed to the refuge and refused to leave.

The Bundys say the Hammonds were persecuted because the federal government wants their land. The Bundys accuse the federal government of overreaching, land grabbing and pushing ranchers off their land in Oregon and elsewhere. They have called on militia members from across the nation to join their occupation. Their father, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, spearheaded a standoff with the government over grazing rights in 2014.

The FBI said in a release that it is working with local authorities to resolve the Oregon standoff peacefully. Harney County Sheriff David Ward said protesters claimed to be supporting local ranchers but actually "had alternative motives to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States."

Lavoy Finicum, a neighbor of Cliven Bundy, said he joined the Oregon occupation because he was tired of watching freedoms "being eroded away."

"It's going to take some time, but come summer we'd love to see these ranchers reclaim their rights," Finicum said.

Rep. Cliff Bentz, who represents Burns in the state House of Representatives, said: "There is certainly always a place for peaceful protest, and I think that this is what Harney County residents who participated in Saturday's parade believe they were doing as they marched.

"I also think that the sheriff and the county and the city are all doing all that they can to manage the Bundys' self-serving, attention-grabbing efforts in a way that prevents Harney County from becoming a rallying cry for every anti-government person in America."

Contributing: Gordon Friedman, (Salem, Ore.) Statesman Journal

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/04/oregon-wildlife-refuge-takeover/78249068/

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The two Oregon ranchers at the center of an anti-government protest that escalated into an armed takeover of a federal wildlife building said Monday that they will seek clemency from President Obama.

But Dwight Hammond, 73, and son Steven, 46, said they would "respect the rule of law" and report to prison Monday.

The Hammonds' statement made no mention of the controversy at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, where supporters said Monday they won't leave until federal land in the area is returned to state and local governments — and ranchers such as the Hammonds.

"Our purpose, as we have shown, is to restore and defend the Constitution," said Ammon Bundy, a rancher who is leading the protest along with his brother, Ryan.

The Hammonds were convicted three years ago of starting brush fires on federal property. They served short prison sentences, but a judge ordered them to return to prison for four years because the time they served did not meet minimum-sentencing laws.

The occupation began Saturday after an estimated 300 protesters marched through the nearby town of Burns. The Bundys and some of the protesters — it was not clear how many — then headed to the refuge and refused to leave.

The Bundys say the Hammonds were persecuted because the federal government wants their land. The Bundys accuse the federal government of overreaching, land grabbing and pushing ranchers off their land in Oregon and elsewhere. They have called on militia members from across the nation to join their occupation. Their father, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, spearheaded a standoff with the government over grazing rights in 2014.

The FBI said in a release that it is working with local authorities to resolve the Oregon standoff peacefully. Harney County Sheriff David Ward said protesters claimed to be supporting local ranchers but actually "had alternative motives to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States."

Lavoy Finicum, a neighbor of Cliven Bundy, said he joined the Oregon occupation because he was tired of watching freedoms "being eroded away."

"It's going to take some time, but come summer we'd love to see these ranchers reclaim their rights," Finicum said.

Rep. Cliff Bentz, who represents Burns in the state House of Representatives, said: "There is certainly always a place for peaceful protest, and I think that this is what Harney County residents who participated in Saturday's parade believe they were doing as they marched.

"I also think that the sheriff and the county and the city are all doing all that they can to manage the Bundys' self-serving, attention-grabbing efforts in a way that prevents Harney County from becoming a rallying cry for every anti-government person in America."

Contributing: Gordon Friedman, (Salem, Ore.) Statesman Journal

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/04/oregon-wildlife-refuge-takeover/78249068/

These people are a hoot.

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What You Need To Know About The Oregon Militia Standoff

GRAPHIC January 4, 2016
960.jpg

During a rally in Oregon for two ranchers convicted of arson, a group of anti-government protesters initiated the armed occupation of a federal building at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Here is everything you need to know about the militia standoff:

Where is the standoff taking place?

The headquarters of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, future capital of the Free Republic Of America.

How did this start?

Protests began after local ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond were ordered to return to prison because their time already served for committing arson did not meet minimum-sentencing laws, which, to be fair, often do more harm than good and are certainly worthy of reevaluation.

Who are the ranchers protesting against?

Gub’ment.

Why did the ranchers take over the federal wildlife building?

You big-city folk wouldn’t understand.

How many people are involved in the standoff?

An estimated 150 militia members who would otherwise be armed and spouting anti-government rhetoric somewhere else.

What are the protesters’ demands?

$5 million in cash and safe passage to 1874.

Is there legitimacy to their complaints?

Compared to the plight of the Oregon’s nearly extinct short-tailed albatross? Absolutely not.

Who is Ammon Bundy?

An American patriot who is currently living inside a government wildlife building in the middle of Oregon to defend ranchers who burned down 130 acres of federal land.

Are the protesters violent?

They have vowed to only seek a peaceful overthrow of the entire U.S. federal government.

How long are they planning to stay?

As long as their supply of whiskey and bison chili lasts.

What is the militia ultimately hoping to achieve?

Garner enough attention over next few weeks to be brought onstage during rally for a low-polling GOP candidate.

Is the protest going to work?

Nope.

http://www.theonion.com/graphic/what-you-need-know-about-oregon-militia-standoff-52111

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