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Belichick then said it wasn't until 2003, the fourth year of his Patriots tenure, that he fully installed his program.

"Because of everything -- you have to change the culture. Normally one coach is different from the previous coach -- you don't see a lot of whoever the first coach is, the second coach is kind of a carbon copy of the second coach, the third coach is kind of a carbon copy of the second coach. You rarely see that," he said.

"So the coach that comes in usually has a different philosophy than the coach that left, so you have to try to implement that philosophy, and that means you're going to turn over a high percentage of the roster because the players the other coach had don't fit the new philosophy. So a lot of the players are going to have to change, in part of the philosophy and in part because of the scheme; those kind of role-type players, now that role is not needed in the new scheme. A different role is needed, so you have different players. Then just getting your team acclimated to doing things the way of the philosophy of the new program. You're going to have to go through a lot of tough situations -- tough games, tough losses, tough stretches in the season, whatever it happens to be. To build that up over time, it doesn't happen in training camp. ...

"It takes some time to go through that. I don't think there is any shortcut to it. I know there is a lot of other people in the league that think there is, there's instant; in two weeks everything is going to change. I don't buy into that."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14472270/bill-belichick-defends-chip-kelly-says-lot-ex-eagles-not-doing-too-much

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That's exactly why when Quinn talked about not doing things differently, but better drove me insane.

Personally, I think having a rigid "philosophy" when it comes to scheme and playcalling, you are ultimately just limiting yourself and making it harder on yourself. Execution is a critical part of it no doubt, but if you are more dedicated to a philosophy in terms of scheme than to winning and putting the players you have in the best position to win, you will only struggle in the NFL.

I think that's what makes Belichick a genius. He can build towards something, but use what he has most effectively. He's not locked in to 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not dedicated to "balanced" offense.

He only does whatever it takes to win, and that's why he's the best.

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Smart man. While I foresee many coming and praising what was said, basically because who said it. I guarantee the actual idea represented, the message he was trying to get across will not be understood by many beyond the superficial. I hate to sound like an old man, but the Fantasy generation is incapable (I mean incapable) of truly getting this.

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Smart man. While I foresee many coming and praising what was said, basically because who said it. I guarantee the actual idea represented, the message he was trying to get across will not be understood by many beyond the superficial. I hate to sound like an old man, but the Fantasy generation is incapable (I mean incapable) of truly getting this.

Totally agree.

His philosophy here is the perfect meshing of intention and practical application, IMO. Yes, you want to do what you want to do from the moment you get there. But there is a sense of culture building that has to accompany that. And with limited resources and so many different personalities involved, you're only going to be able to do so much as you build your program.

He's a smart man, that BB.

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That's exactly why when Quinn talked about not doing things differently, but better drove me insane.

Personally, I think having a rigid "philosophy" when it comes to scheme and playcalling, you are ultimately just limiting yourself and making it harder on yourself. Execution is a critical part of it no doubt, but if you are more dedicated to a philosophy in terms of scheme than to winning and putting the players you have in the best position to win, you will only struggle in the NFL.

I think that's what makes Belichick a genius. He can build towards something, but use what he has most effectively. He's not locked in to 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not dedicated to "balanced" offense.

He only does whatever it takes to win, and that's why he's the best.

I think there's a lot of merit to this. And I've always been convinced that Belichick's ability to adjust his approach based on his available assets is the most foundational reason for his success.

DQ may have said that but he doesnt strike me as a "I do XYZ, either get with it or GTFO" sort of guy. And his work with Seattle was full of interesting twists and quirks. He's obviously not Belichick but I think he's coming from a solid place. And I'm excited to see where he brings us.

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Smart man. While I foresee many coming and praising what was said, basically because who said it. I guarantee the actual idea represented, the message he was trying to get across will not be understood by many beyond the superficial. I hate to sound like an old man, but the Fantasy generation is incapable (I mean incapable) of truly getting this.

Amen brother Hammertime!

Post of the week

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I think there's a lot of merit to this. And I've always been convinced that Belichick's ability to adjust his approach based on his available assets is the most foundational reason for his success.

DQ may have said that but he doesnt strike me as a "I do XYZ, either get with it or GTFO" sort of guy. And his work with Seattle was full of interesting twists and quirks. He's obviously not Belichick but I think he's coming from a solid place. And I'm excited to see where he brings us.

I too, am very excited about next years defense given what I saw come together the last two weeks with so many young, wet behind the ears defenders being able to hold the Panthers to 13 points and stop them drive after drive after drive. What I saw was the potential of how we can play when everyone is on the same page and understanding their own roles.

Another training camp for these young guys in this same scheme, getting rid of a few pieces that don't fit and adding some more pieces that fit better, by next year we could make a quantum leap.

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That's exactly why when Quinn talked about not doing things differently, but better drove me insane.

Personally, I think having a rigid "philosophy" when it comes to scheme and playcalling, you are ultimately just limiting yourself and making it harder on yourself. Execution is a critical part of it no doubt, but if you are more dedicated to a philosophy in terms of scheme than to winning and putting the players you have in the best position to win, you will only struggle in the NFL.

I think that's what makes Belichick a genius. He can build towards something, but use what he has most effectively. He's not locked in to 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not dedicated to "balanced" offense.

He only does whatever it takes to win, and that's why he's the best.

You have to have a foundation first. Everything Belichick does is still within scheme. They don't just totally deviate from it.

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You have to have a foundation first. Everything Belichick does is still within scheme. They don't just totally deviate from it.

I disagree. He takes each game and schemes to the opponent. He'll take a UDFA RB and get 200 yards out him one week, then won't play him the rest of the year. He'll completely change the scheme of his defense to the opponent.

He just has the team ready for any scenario.

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You need time to acquire foundational pieces, particularly in the offensive and defensive lines. Half the battle is controlling what the opponent can do on its offense and improving your chance for success while on offense. The huge number of short-term free agents we brought in was a sign that we were buying time to obtain the players we can develop. There's no quick fixes to building a perennial winner. Getting lucky and getting once in a generation players like Tom Brady helps, though.

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I disagree. He takes each game and schemes to the opponent. He'll take a UDFA RB and get 200 yards out him one week, then won't play him the rest of the year. He'll completely change the scheme of his defense to the opponent.

He just has the team ready for any scenario.

I'm pretty sure every coach does that to an extent. Otherwise, what is game planning? Why do teams watch film?

Maybe Dan Quinn has a point though. Maybe execution just needs to be better rather than coaches constantly racking their brains figuring out how to minimize player weaknesses (as if opposing teams can never figure them out).

Jonas Gray rushing for 200 yards against the Colts (who at that time had an atrocious run defense and the Patriots have had consistent success running on them), was an anomaly. It really didn't matter who you put in the backfield when that O-line was opening up big holes to run through.

Belichick's main thing, as with most, if not all, other coaches is execution. "Do your job." That's really all there is to it. That's the biggest thing Quinn preaches as well, "be the best at what you do/position you play." That way, it doesn't really matter what scheme you're in, because no scheme is fool proof. It all comes down to player execution.

Edited by JerseyNo12
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That's exactly why when Quinn talked about not doing things differently, but better drove me insane.

Personally, I think having a rigid "philosophy" when it comes to scheme and playcalling, you are ultimately just limiting yourself and making it harder on yourself. Execution is a critical part of it no doubt, but if you are more dedicated to a philosophy in terms of scheme than to winning and putting the players you have in the best position to win, you will only struggle in the NFL.

I think that's what makes Belichick a genius. He can build towards something, but use what he has most effectively. He's not locked in to 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not dedicated to "balanced" offense.

He only does whatever it takes to win, and that's why he's the best.

Having that rigid scheme is how you build a culture. Look at us from 08 up until we get Julio. We're following a process with a rigid identity and then we try to turn into NO/GB instead of improving on our process. Belichick throws wrinkles in here and there but for the most part he's followed the same constructs in scheme defensively, and grew the offense AS the QB grew instead of changing culture to MAKE the QB grow.

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Having that rigid scheme is how you build a culture. Look at us from 08 up until we get Julio. We're following a process with a rigid identity and then we try to turn into NO/GB instead of improving on our process. Belichick throws wrinkles in here and there but for the most part he's followed the same constructs in scheme defensively, and grew the offense AS the QB grew instead of changing culture to MAKE the QB grow.

Great post. Our wheels fell off when we became a pass first offense. We should have invested in our O-line and finding Turner's replacement instead of throwing the ball 40 times per game. And we also have lacked leaders on defense since Mike Peterson left. Spoon was the heir apparent but he couldn't stay on the field.
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That's exactly why when Quinn talked about not doing things differently, but better drove me insane.

Personally, I think having a rigid "philosophy" when it comes to scheme and playcalling, you are ultimately just limiting yourself and making it harder on yourself. Execution is a critical part of it no doubt, but if you are more dedicated to a philosophy in terms of scheme than to winning and putting the players you have in the best position to win, you will only struggle in the NFL.

I think that's what makes Belichick a genius. He can build towards something, but use what he has most effectively. He's not locked in to 3-4 or a 4-3. He's not dedicated to "balanced" offense.

He only does whatever it takes to win, and that's why he's the best.

What needed to change that Quinn was being "rigid" about?

They were playing good ball in the early part of the season. Then they fell in love with fumbles, interceptions, penalties, etc.

Quinn was teaching his brand of football and wasn't going to change that. I don't blame him.

Belichick said it just there in that quote:

"It takes some time to go through that. I don't think there is any shortcut to it. I know there is a lot of other people in the league that think there is, there's instant; in two weeks everything is going to change. I don't buy into that."

Only fans truly believe the coaches, mainly Kyle, were forcing schemes onto the players. This was Quinn and Kyle's first year in Atlanta with this group, most of them from the previous regime. They seemed to have worked out the kinks over this first season and we'll see Sunday if they have that foundation to build on.

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I'm pretty sure every coach does that to an extent. Otherwise, what is game planning? Why do teams watch film?

Maybe Dan Quinn has a point though. Maybe execution just needs to be better rather than coaches constantly racking their brains figuring out how to minimize player weaknesses (as if opposing teams can never figure them out).

Jonas Gray rushing for 200 yards against the Colts (who at that time had an atrocious run defense and the Patriots have had consistent success running on them), was an anomaly. It really didn't matter who you put in the backfield when that O-line was opening up big holes to run through.

Belichick's main thing, as with most, if not all, other coaches is execution. "Do your job." That's really all there is to it. That's the biggest thing Quinn preaches as well, "be the best at what you do/position you play." That way, it doesn't really matter what scheme you're in, because no scheme is fool proof. It all comes down to player execution.

Thank you! Jonas Gray was an anomaly. That's the best way to put it. Most weeks, you know how the Patriots are going to attack and defend for sixty minutes. The key is they are the most well coached and fundamentally sound group in the NFL every year because Belichick wants them to do their job right first.

That's why I laugh when people complain about when Quinn says "We're not focused what the other team does well, we're focused on us and getting right back to what we do and doing it better". It's a mentality. I don't care what you throw at me, I'm ready for it and I'll ball out as usual. But somehow some posters took that as "We aren't gameplanning for the opponent".

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It is obvious that Shanahan has been out-schemed, out-coached, and out-play called, all season long until last week. Last week our pass offense featured more quick passing, more throws to Roddy, less waiting on routes to develop, and our run game was used a -lot- more. Our offense did not look at all like what we have had to endure the last two months under Shanahan. That leads me to believe someone stepped on Kyle, and stepped on him hard-. Best thing that could happen to this team, is Shanahan gets a HC gig somewhere, or chooses to walk on his own like he did with Cleveland. If Quinn is a strong enough coach to fire the guy, then that's ok too. THEN we might be able to get some stability around here, at least on offense.

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Apologies, my previous post was meant for another thread, not sure how I ended up posting here? (I have had posting issues :(). Recently I DID create a post (actually two) concerning building a winning franchise, and why the Falcons are a losing franchise. If you guys want to see it, I will look for it and post it here.

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What needed to change that Quinn was being "rigid" about?

They were playing good ball in the early part of the season. Then they fell in love with fumbles, interceptions, penalties, etc.

Quinn was teaching his brand of football and wasn't going to change that. I don't blame him.

Belichick said it just there in that quote:

"It takes some time to go through that. I don't think there is any shortcut to it. I know there is a lot of other people in the league that think there is, there's instant; in two weeks everything is going to change. I don't buy into that."

Only fans truly believe the coaches, mainly Kyle, were forcing schemes onto the players. This was Quinn and Kyle's first year in Atlanta with this group, most of them from the previous regime. They seemed to have worked out the kinks over this first season and we'll see Sunday if they have that foundation to build on.

I can pop off a few after a half a fifth of Jack Daniels:

We waited until week 17 to have a competition for Center. We had bad snaps week one. Bad snaps were the biggest issue in our week 6 loss.

We waited until week 16 to incorporate Roddy into the offense.

After Julio complaining about not seeing any redzone opportunities, the only 4 downs we6. were past the Carolina 20 2 weeks ago, he's on the bench.

Refusal to have Trufant shadow a WR until week 16

I'm not saying we should have gone undefeated, but I hope Quinn learned that doing things different is sometimes what it takes to win, not just execution.

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I can pop off a few after a half a fifth of Jack Daniels:

We waited until week 17 to have a competition for Center. We had bad snaps week one. Bad snaps were the biggest issue in our week 6 loss.

We waited until week 16 to incorporate Roddy into the offense.

After Julio complaining about not seeing any redzone opportunities, the only 4 downs we6. were past the Carolina 20 2 weeks ago, he's on the bench.

Refusal to have Trufant shadow a WR until week 16

I'm not saying we should have gone undefeated, but I hope Quinn learned that doing things different is sometimes what it takes to win, not just execution.

We had a competition during the bye week, Person jus won out. I'm thinking Gino just looks awful blocking in practice

As far as Roddy goes, he was on the field running routes and getting open. Ryan wasn't seeing him and Hankerson was getting more of the intermediate work. When in 21 packages Roddy was on the field though. Coordinators don't decide where the ball goes when the play starts.

The week Julio complained about not getting redzone looks was also the week he dropped a jump ball situation in the endzone. I like Julio as much as the next guy but it's been 3 coordinators that haven't really featured Julio in the redzone. Maybe that's a part of Julio's game he needs to work on or maybe we happened to end up with 3 of the worst OCs in the league, or maybe Ryan just isn't a throw it up and go get it type of QB. I don't know...I remember the board being mad when we'd 'waste' redzone plays on fades to HD though, so this isn't new.

And having Trufant shadow guys is something we haven't featured week in week out since he's came here...maybe he's grown into that role, maybe other pieces of the defense would be asked to do things that wouldn't have worked earlier, or maybe we're just trying new things for the upcoming year. The time to experiment isn't in the middle of the season. I mean, he did the same against Jacksonville and half the board was saying he got exposed.

Edited by Wjcorner
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I'm pretty sure every coach does that to an extent. Otherwise, what is game planning? Why do teams watch film?

Maybe Dan Quinn has a point though. Maybe execution just needs to be better rather than coaches constantly racking their brains figuring out how to minimize player weaknesses (as if opposing teams can never figure them out).

Jonas Gray rushing for 200 yards against the Colts (who at that time had an atrocious run defense and the Patriots have had consistent success running on them), was an anomaly. It really didn't matter who you put in the backfield when that O-line was opening up big holes to run through.

Belichick's main thing, as with most, if not all, other coaches is execution. "Do your job." That's really all there is to it. That's the biggest thing Quinn preaches as well, "be the best at what you do/position you play." That way, it doesn't really matter what scheme you're in, because no scheme is fool proof. It all comes down to player execution.

This reminds me of something Bill Walsh used to drill into his players. He would tell them that if they did everything exactly the right way then they couldn't be stopped. It will not matter what the opponent does because I have trained you and put you in the best position for success.

Dwight Clark said that they would be sitting in the meeting rooms going over the offense and Walsh would say, if you run this route perfectly you're going to catch the ball and not have anyone around you. Clark said him and the other receivers would be thinking, yeah right, you're going to get us killed. But then the game would come and we'd run the route and catch the ball expecting to get drilled and turn around and be absolutely shocked that there was no one around them.

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Having that rigid scheme is how you build a culture. Look at us from 08 up until we get Julio. We're following a process with a rigid identity and then we try to turn into NO/GB instead of improving on our process. Belichick throws wrinkles in here and there but for the most part he's followed the same constructs in scheme defensively, and grew the offense AS the QB grew instead of changing culture to MAKE the QB grow.

Exactly. Despite the Patriots undefeated regular season in 2007 and their Super Bowl win last year, their most successful teams, IMO, were the years where the Patriots were a ground and pound team with a suffocating defense. I know it's hard to believe that for the longest time Tom Brady was asked to do very little, but he was. From 2001-2006 Tom Brady averaged 32.5 pass attempts per game. From 2008-2011 Matt Ryan averaged 32.6 pass attempts per game. The Falcons were building the team the correct way. That all changed when we brought in Koetter to make the Falcons more "explosive" on offense. The Falcons have not achieved success yet.

Bill Belichick continues to win because while he mixes things up every once in a while he stays true to his philosophy and what he knows is winning football. He doesn't try to become someone else when the Patriots have a bad season (by his standards). He just gets different players who fit his system better. It's pretty **** impressive that two of his Super Bowl wins are 14 years apart. Look at how much the NFL has changed in those 14 years. But Belichick doesn't and he keeps winning.

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What needed to change that Quinn was being "rigid" about?

They were playing good ball in the early part of the season. Then they fell in love with fumbles, interceptions, penalties, etc.

Quinn was teaching his brand of football and wasn't going to change that. I don't blame him.

Belichick said it just there in that quote:

"It takes some time to go through that. I don't think there is any shortcut to it. I know there is a lot of other people in the league that think there is, there's instant; in two weeks everything is going to change. I don't buy into that."

Only fans truly believe the coaches, mainly Kyle, were forcing schemes onto the players. This was Quinn and Kyle's first year in Atlanta with this group, most of them from the previous regime. They seemed to have worked out the kinks over this first season and we'll see Sunday if they have that foundation to build on.

Exactly. It takes time. Bill Walsh won a total of 8 games in his first 2 years in San Francisco. Imagine if they would have fired him? Then we would have never witnessed the greatest team of the 80s. We would have never witnessed one of the greatest runs in sports history (49ers 16 straight years with 10 or more wins).

No one has patience anymore and it has ruined a lot of good people in the process.

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We had a competition during the bye week, Person jus won out. I'm thinking Gino just looks awful blocking in practice

As far as Roddy goes, he was on the field running routes and getting open. Ryan wasn't seeing him and Hankerson was getting more of the intermediate work. When in 21 packages Roddy was on the field though. Coordinators don't decide where the ball goes when the play starts.

The week Julio complained about not getting redzone looks was also the week he dropped a jump ball situation in the endzone. I like Julio as much as the next guy but it's been 3 coordinators that haven't really featured Julio in the redzone. Maybe that's a part of Julio's game he needs to work on or maybe we happened to end up with 3 of the worst OCs in the league, or maybe Ryan just isn't a throw it up and go get it type of QB. I don't know...I remember the board being mad when we'd 'waste' redzone plays on fades to HD though, so this isn't new.

And having Trufant shadow guys is something we haven't featured week in week out since he's came here...maybe he's grown into that role, maybe other pieces of the defense would be asked to do things that wouldn't have worked earlier, or maybe we're just trying new things for the upcoming year. The time to experiment isn't in the middle of the season. I mean, he did the same against Jacksonville and half the board was saying he got exposed.

Patience. No one has patience anymore. Everyone is supposed to automatically know and do everything exactly perfectly. No one is suppose to make mistakes. No time for that. We want instant gratification.

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Thank you! Jonas Gray was an anomaly. That's the best way to put it. Most weeks, you know how the Patriots are going to attack and defend for sixty minutes. The key is they are the most well coached and fundamentally sound group in the NFL every year because Belichick wants them to do their job right first.

That's why I laugh when people complain about when Quinn says "We're not focused what the other team does well, we're focused on us and getting right back to what we do and doing it better". It's a mentality. I don't care what you throw at me, I'm ready for it and I'll ball out as usual. But somehow some posters took that as "We aren't gameplanning for the opponent".

Fundamentals. Belichick may elect to add one or two wrinkles to a gameplan (trick play or what have you), but he definitely makes sure his team is fundamentally sound in whatever scheme he's running. It's like how Gregg Popovich coaches the Spurs. He doesn't care for the razzle dazzle, he just wants players to execute the system to the best of their ability.

This reminds me of something Bill Walsh used to drill into his players. He would tell them that if they did everything exactly the right way then they couldn't be stopped. It will not matter what the opponent does because I have trained you and put you in the best position for success.

Dwight Clark said that they would be sitting in the meeting rooms going over the offense and Walsh would say, if you run this route perfectly you're going to catch the ball and not have anyone around you. Clark said him and the other receivers would be thinking, yeah right, you're going to get us killed. But then the game would come and we'd run the route and catch the ball expecting to get drilled and turn around and be absolutely shocked that there was no one around them.

Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest or fastest receiver (he was no Randy Moss), but he ran excellent routes and turned short passes into big gains.

Edited by JerseyNo12
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