Grades Through Week 12 (Pff)

[bossFALCON™]

Upgrading person, Wor and Moore would make us true contenders imo. White and Durant would just be icing on the cake. Just wish Durant could stay healthy. Roddy could be a very solid slot, just makes too much.

[blizzard_falcon]

Upgrading person, Wor and Moore would make us true contenders imo. White and Durant would just be icing on the cake. Just wish Durant could stay healthy. Roddy could be a very solid slot, just makes too much.

Add in another pass rusher or two, and this looks like my offseason wish list as well: C, DE, MLB, WR, OLB, OG, SS, TE

[Kayoh]

I'm a huge Worrilow fan, but he's a liability in coverage and his tackling hasn't been much better this year. Keep him around on a cheap deal, but he shouldn't be starting.

realistically, he shouldn't be on an NFL roster.

[Mid-Nite-Toker]

I have to it give Kroy, I wanted him absolutely cut in pre-season.

He has turned in a solid season so far against the run.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Most of that seems about right. I do have my reservations about PFF but this looks a lot like how I would expect this team to grade out.

In particular, the pass rush has seemed stronger than last year even if it hasnt been generating sacks. This seems to back that up a bit.

[Intellectually Honest]

PFF grades are all verified by the pro coach network.

That is not a criteria. That is simply saying these guys are the ones grading it or approving the grading of it.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[SyCo]

Well for one, PFF doesn't show it's criteria for it's ratings either individually or as a whole. Also why should anyone take their ratings seriously in the first place. The burden of proof is on the one making the claims. It makes no sense to simply use PFF as if it is a peer reviewed journal and then shift the burden on PFF skeptics, because they don't accept it.

What criteria are you looking for exactly? they dont keep any secrets, they list how the grading system works on the site.

I once had questions about Alfords grade, and emailed them, I received a very clear analysis on how he was graded, and it made alot of sense after I saw where they were coming from, when before I thought they were crazy as ****.

I think people only see big impact plays, and think a player has a great game, and then see their grade and are mind blown that they were graded poorly, not realizing they were missing tackles, or whatever the reason may be.

same thing with Ryan...he typically comes away with a positive grade, but some people cant wrap their heads around it because they remember an int, or a bad throw, but ignore the 15 or so good plays he makes. they also dont take into account that his receivers are being graded horribly because they cant get open for **** and drop a third of their targets.

[Intellectually Honest]

What criteria are you looking for exactly? they dont keep any secrets, they list how the grading system works on the site.

I once had questions about Alfords grade, and emailed them, I received a very clear analysis on how he was graded, and it made alot of sense after I saw where they were coming from, when before I thought they were crazy as ****.

I think people only see big impact plays, and think a player has a great game, and then see their grade and are mind blown that they were graded poorly, not realizing they were missing tackles, or whatever the reason may be.

same thing with Ryan...he typically comes away with a positive grade, but some people cant wrap their heads around it because they remember an int, or a bad throw, but ignore the 15 or so good plays he makes. they also dont take into account that his receivers are being graded horribly because they cant get open for **** and drop a third of their targets.

I am just asking for a criteria i.e. their methodology. You say they gave it to you. Well, what is it?

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[SyCo]

I am just asking for a criteria i.e. their methodology. You say they gave it to you. Well, what is it?

criteria? I mean, its no different than when you're watching a game and say...wow worrilow was out of position...or that was a bad throw by ryan.

i guess the criteria is , did they do something bad, ok, or good? it really isnt complicated

you can go to the website and they explain it

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

[Intellectually Honest]

criteria? I mean, its no different than when you're watching a game and say...wow worrilow was out of position...or that was a bad throw by ryan.

i guess the criteria is , did they do something bad, ok, or good? it really isnt complicated

you can go to the website and they explain it

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

So in other words it is just their opinion. So why should anyone take the opinion of these guys, when any fan can use the eyeball test too to evaluate what they see?

[SyCo]

So in other words it is just their opinion. So why should anyone take the opinion of these guys, when any fan can use the eyeball test too to evaluate what they see?

you can do what you want bro, is anyone telling you that you have to follow pff as law?

[Intellectually Honest]

you can do what you want bro, is anyone telling you that you have to follow pff as law?

Well the OP is stating that we ought to use PFF grades unless given a reason otherwise. I just gave a reason otherwise.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[SyCo]

Well the OP is stating that we ought to use PFF grades unless given a reason otherwise. I just gave a reason otherwise.

No hes not, hes saying unless you've got an intelligent argument dont bother with the "pff is stupid" stuff, everytime some one shares something from the site, which they pay for, someone wants to come in and crap on the entire thread and tell everyone they're idiots for looking at it.

[Intellectually Honest]

No hes not, hes saying unless you've got an intelligent argument dont bother with the "pff is stupid" stuff, everytime some one shares something from the site, which they pay for, someone wants to come in and crap on the entire thread and tell everyone they're idiots for looking at it.

"If you have a bone to pick with PFF, bring actual logic, reasoning, and potentially even examples to back your **** up".

My bone to pick it is simply the opinion of those on PFF who are just using their eye ball test vs the eye ball test of those on this board. It is simply the opinion of one group vs another, and there is no reason to bring up PFF at all, because there opinion holds no more weight.

So skeptics of PFF need logic and reasoning, and those who agree with PFF don't. They just need to show PFF grades. That is a double standard.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[Kayoh]

"If you have a bone to pick with PFF, bring actual logic, reasoning, and potentially even examples to back your **** up". My bone to pick it is simply the opinion of those on PFF who are just using their eye ball test vs the eye ball test of those on this board. It is simply the opinion of one group vs another, and there is no reason to bring up PFF at all, because there opinion holds no more weight. Why even bring up PFF when it hold no more weight than the view of the average fan?

So skeptics of PFF need logic and reasoning, and those who agree with PFF don't. They just need to show PFF grades. That is called a double standard also.

how many NFL games would you say you've watched in your lifetime? 100? 200?

[Mr. Lubba Lubba©]

"If you have a bone to pick with PFF, bring actual logic, reasoning, and potentially even examples to back your **** up". My bone to pick it is simply the opinion of those on PFF who are just using their eye ball test vs the eye ball test of those on this board. It is simply the opinion of one group vs another, and there is no reason to bring up PFF at all, because there opinion holds no more weight. Why even bring up PFF when it hold no more weight than the view of the average fan?

So skeptics of PFF need logic and reasoning, and those who agree with PFF don't. They just need to show PFF grades. That is called a double standard also.

So you'd value the opinion of a 6 year old's theory on how the world began equally as that of a theoretical physicist? Got ya. They're both just opinions right?

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

"If you have a bone to pick with PFF, bring actual logic, reasoning, and potentially even examples to back your **** up". My bone to pick it is simply the opinion of those on PFF who are just using their eye ball test vs the eye ball test of those on this board. It is simply the opinion of one group vs another, and there is no reason to bring up PFF at all, because there opinion holds no more weight. Why even bring up PFF when it hold no more weight than the view of the average fan?

So skeptics of PFF need logic and reasoning, and those who agree with PFF don't. They just need to show PFF grades. That is called a double standard also.

I dont know that you can say it "holds no more weight" given how successful they've been at securing contracts with NFL clubs and receiving investment capital from quality football guys.

They're a voice in the discussion. They certainly aren't expressing opinions of a weight equal to your random message board poster.

[spanish_falcon]

Kroy sucks but Worrillow is a beast they told me 5 months ago. Well

[Intellectually Honest]

how many NFL games would you say you've watched in your lifetime? 100? 200?

Don't shift the burden. The burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

[Big_Dog]

I have to it give Kroy, I wanted him absolutely cut in pre-season.

He has turned in a solid season so far against the run.

My exact sentiments.

[Intellectually Honest]

I dont know that you can say it "holds no more weight" given how successful they've been at securing contracts with NFL clubs and receiving investment capital from quality football guys.

They're a voice in the discussion. They certainly aren't expressing opinions of a weight equal to your random message board poster.

Just because players use the opinions of PFF for contract discussions does not mean their opinion means more. That is a non sequitur. If the eye ball test is being used by one group vs the eye ball test of the other, it is just a matter of opinion. You are also making an appeal to authority fallacy.

[Intellectually Honest]

So you'd value the opinion of a 6 year old's theory on how the world began equally as that of a theoretical physicist? Got ya. They're both just opinions right?

This isn't science, so you gave a poor analogy. These guys aren't using empirical data under controlled conditions and using deductive reasoning to make logical inferences. I use my own eye ball test like anyone else. I simply don't use my opinion as some type of barometer for other people to use. Plus people on this board who are stating their opinion are not using the opinions of others to make an argument especially those disagreeing with PFF.

So one group of people use the opinions of PFF, and lets say another group of people use the opinions of NFL Network from their favorite football players, or those players who agree with their opinion. Does it make a bit of difference?

It doesn't matter what someone else thinks. It is what reasoning you can bring to the table, not the opinions of someone else and using that opinion as if it was a fact.

Imagine if I gave my own personal grades and someone like MegaFlare used my grades as a basis for his arguments. People would laugh at the idea and disregard it. It is the same idea but for some reason giving PFF the benefit of the doubt as if their opinion is somehow a scientific theory. It is not.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[Drunken Minotaur Zebra]

MATT RYAN SUX TRADE HIM AND CUT HIM AT THE SAME TIME

oh he's the #2 player on our offense overall?

uh

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Just because players use the opinions of PFF for contract discussions does not mean their opinion means more. That is a non sequitur. If the eye ball test is being used by one group vs the eye ball test of the other, it is just a matter of opinion. You are also making an appeal to authority fallacy.

Except that it's not just players....it's TEAMS and personnel departments. And analysts.

And no, I'm not asserting a fallacy as I am not suggesting that their "authority" or the authority of their users results in the establishment of a FACT through the use of deductive logic. I said they were a voice.

Now, you seem to be adhering to a system of opinion-based relativism, which has its own logical issues. Yes, they have an opinion. Yes, you have an opinion. However, there is nothing to suggest that the two opinions are of equal weight or map to reality in an equally accurate fashion. To assume the "its just an opinion" is correct is to undermine almost everything ever stated outside of the realm of mathematics and deductive logic.

Not all voices or "eyeballs" are equal. And to PFF's credit, they have received a degree of sponsorship from a lot of qualified eyeballs.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

This isn't science, so you gave a poor analogy. These guys aren't using empirical data under controlled conditions and using deductive reasoning to make logical inferences. I use my own eye ball test like anyone else. I simply don't use my opinion as some type of barometer for other people to use. Plus people on this board who are stating their opinion are not using the opinions of others to make an argument especially those disagreeing with PFF.

So one group of people use the opinions of PFF, and lets say another group of people use the opinions of NFL Network from their favorite football players, or those players who agree with their opinion. Does it make a bit of difference?

It doesn't matter what someone else thinks. It is what reasoning you can bring to the table, not the opinions of someone else and using that opinion as if it was a fact.

Imagine if I gave my own personal grades and someone like MegaFlare used my grades as a basis for his arguments. People would laugh at the idea and disregard it. It is the same idea but for some reason giving PFF the benefit of the doubt as if their opinion is somehow a scientific theory. It is not.

Ahh but you're assuming that our ignorance of the specific reasoning behind their opinion leads us to believe that there ISNT a specific reason underlying their opinions. That isn't true. Of course they have a methodology. Or course they have reasoning. The fact that you arent privvy to their particular line of thinking doesnt make their line of thinking flawed or non-existent.