Once And For All

[Nino11]

I seem to recall during the offense there was a lot of optimism regarding our FA acquisitions and Draft class. A good deal of the board associated this supposed resurgence of good moves to Pioli's arrival and TDs neutering. As we free fall from a 5-0 start that same old narrative seems to have spread back around like cancer (Fire TD).

I know fans have an innate knee jerk reaction to fire everyone after a loss that some can't control, I have just conceded to that point. While most have turned their attention to Ryan vs Shannahan, some of the luster seems to have worn off Pioli yet I only see Fire TD. Now that the moves made in the off season don't appear to set us up for a fairy tell Superbowl win, who is the consensus architect of the team now? TD or Pioli?

[Clark Kent™]

Most will find a way to try and blame TD. What we do know is that TD has ALWAYS preached "synergy" between HC/GM. I feel like he goes out and gets who his coaches want.

Regardless, if we wouldn't have had so many turnovers these last 6 games, we wouldn't be 1-5 in those games and this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Its too early to judge the draft class, but i still think it will end up being a very good one other than the Collins pick.

[Nino11]

Most will find a way to try and blame TD. What we do know is that TD has ALWAYS preached "synergy" between HC/GM. I feel like he goes out and gets who his coaches want.

Regardless, if we wouldn't have had so many turnovers these last 6 games, we wouldn't be 1-5 in those games and this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Its too early to judge the draft class, but i still think it will end up being a very good one other than the Collins pick.

While I admit I wanted a LB like Kendrics or Greogory in the second I have no qualms about the Collins pick after watching Adams play. Flash backs of Jason Webster fill my mind every time I see number 20.

[paulitik]

Most will find a way to try and blame TD. What we do know is that TD has ALWAYS preached "synergy" between HC/GM. I feel like he goes out and gets who his coaches want.

Regardless, if we wouldn't have had so many turnovers these last 6 games, we wouldn't be 1-5 in those games and this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Its too early to judge the draft class, but i still think it will end up being a very good one other than the Collins pick.

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can put anything on TD this season.

[Nino11]

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can put anything on TD this season.

I have saw a couple poster say we have a lack of depth and TD should be fired for neglecting the team

[paulitik]

I have saw a couple poster say we have a lack of depth and TD should be fired for neglecting the team

Depth hasn't been the issue, and neither has talent. We could be 11-0 if not for turnovers, penalties, and 6 TDs taken away by referees.

[Dukeduke211]

HEAD COACH AS ALWAYS

[Nino11]

Depth hasn't been the issue, and neither has talent. We could be 11-0 if not for turnovers, penalties, and 6 TDs taken away by referees.

Yeah I agree and I said after the Saints game these mistakes were preventable but I'm not so sure now. They are looking more trend then anomaly

[paulitik]

Yeah I agree and I said after the Saints game these mistakes were preventable but I'm not so sure now. They are looking more trend then anomaly

Trend means preparation. and scheming that's coaching, not talent.

[FalconFanSince1970]

Who hired Pioli?

Who is the GM of record?

[falconcrest58]

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can put anything on TD this season.

Ok let's keep the son of a buck here for another 8yrs.....a GM should get at least 15 yrs to build a team. Guess what....it's f n broke and has been for a while now. Who do we hold accountable the equipment manager? Give me a freaking break.....why is it always TD just aquires the players the coaches want? If the GMs not accountable for aquiring the players what d@m good is he? It's the GM job to produce a winner including hiring a coach that's a winner. How many more HCs DCs OCs and position coaches do we have to hire, fire and replace to figure out the problem here.......TD IS THE PROBLEM and has been. Pioli can go with him......

[Nino11]

Ok let's keep the son of a buck here for another 8yrs.....a GM should get at least 15 yrs to build a team. Guess what....it's f n broke and has been for a while now. Who do we hold accountable the equipment manager? Give me a freaking break.....why is it always TD just aquires the players the coaches want? If the GMs not accountable for aquiring the players what d@m good is he? It's the GM job to produce a winner including hiring a coach that's a winner. How many more HCs DCs OCs and position coaches do we have to hire, fire and replace to figure out the problem here.......TD IS THE PROBLEM and has been. Pioli can go with him......

You don't fire the guy grocery shopping if he got the cook what he wanted

[Intellectually Honest]

You don't fire the guy grocery shopping if he got the cook what he wanted

Sure you do, especially if the guy grocery shopping hired the cook in the first place. If the GM is making poor decisions on who he hires as a cook, and the cook makes poor decisions on what he wants to make and what ingredients he wants to use, or his techniques in making the dish in the first place, then it falls back to the GM.

It would mean the GM is poor at making personnel decisions as in coaching. If you replace the players and coaches, and the GM is the common denominator between all the teams, then it is safe to say it is the GM. It is simply a process of elimination.

If the the GMs are hired and fired and the team still sucks, then the problem is the owner.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[caver50]

Depth hasn't been the issue, and neither has talent. We could be 11-0 if not for turnovers, penalties, and 6 TDs taken away by referees.

If a frog had wings.

[Intellectually Honest]

I seem to recall during the offense there was a lot of optimism regarding our FA acquisitions and Draft class. A good deal of the board associated this supposed resurgence of good moves to Pioli's arrival and TDs neutering. As we free fall from a 5-0 start that same old narrative seems to have spread back around like cancer (Fire TD).

I know fans have an innate knee jerk reaction to fire everyone after a loss that some can't control, I have just conceded to that point. While most have turned their attention to Ryan vs Shannahan, some of the luster seems to have worn off Pioli yet I only see Fire TD. Now that the moves made in the off season don't appear to set us up for a fairy tell Superbowl win, who is the consensus architect of the team now? TD or Pioli?

Optimism for players and the actuality if those players being good are 2 different ideas. If TD is sharing the hiring decisions for players with Pioli and Quinn, then the blame rests on all 3. I would say TD is to blame for any player acquisitions before Quinn and Pioli got here. If TD for instance is allowing Quinn and Smith to make these decisions and they are doing a terrible job of it, then TD needs to take control and fix things. If TD is the one making the decisions he is too blame.

But I see a double standard here. Here is an easy example. Take Matt Ryan. TD was given the credit for drafting Ryan, but if TD is saying that Smitty got to choose his own players, shouldn't Smitty be the one getting the credit. What about Julio Jones?

It seems that the TD fans want to give TD credit when players succeed and give the coaches credit when players fail.

[Nino11]

Optimism for players and the actuality if those players being good are 2 different ideas. If TD is sharing the hiring decisions for players with Pioli and Quinn, then the blame rests on all 3. I would say TD is to blame for any player acquisitions before Quinn and Pioli got here. If TD for instance is allowing Quinn and Smith to make these decisions and they are doing a terrible job of it, then TD needs to take control and fix things. If TD is the one making the decisions he is too blame.

But I see a double standard here. Here is an easy example. Take Matt Ryan. TD was given the credit for drafting Ryan, but if TD is saying that Smitty got to choose his own players, shouldn't Smitty be the one getting the credit. What about Julio Jones?

It seems that the TD fans want to give TD credit when players succeed and give the coaches credit when players fail.

It's a two way street. Are you saying TD has failed to acquire talent more so then Smith failed to coach the team? After the time out fiascos? After having Freemen ride the bench in favor of Steven Jackson? Ricardo Allen on the practice squad? The emphasis on mistake free football causing players to be wound up? TD can't tell Smith how to coach all he can do is acquired the players asked and make wise cap decisions. TD isn't perfect (Abraham, Grimes) but to Wayne TD hasn't gotten talent on to this team is crazy to me

[Intellectually Honest]

It's a two way street. Are you saying TD has failed to acquire talent more so then Smith failed to coach the team? After the time out fiascos? After having Freemen ride the bench in favor of Steven Jackson? Ricardo Allen on the practice squad? The emphasis on mistake free football causing players to be wound up? TD can't tell Smith how to coach all he can do is acquired the players asked and make wise cap decisions. TD isn't perfect (Abraham, Grimes) but to Wayne TD hasn't gotten talent on to this team is crazy to me

I make no claims who did or who did not acquire the players. I was not there. TD blames Smitty. There are fans of TD who assume that is true. If we were to use that idea in a hypothetical, then if TD is getting credit for players who are successful, he should also be credited when players have failed.

It is a matter of logical consistency.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[ukfalc]

The fans are also are in no position to say - because the organisation makes decisions collaboratively. We have a lot of people evaluating prospects and contributing to decisions, from the scouts, heads of college personnel, coaches through to TD and Pioli. We cannot possibly know why certain decisions were made, or which members of the brain trust were championing no those decisions or cautioning against them. This board can't even decide how much power TD and Pioli have, let alone go beyond that to consider issues further.

The other point I will make is that a lot of fans don't have realistic goals or expectations when it comes to their team. They demonstrate no patience or understanding of the time that it takes to build a team, the importance of continuity, the cycles (ebbs and flows) that a team goes through, how competitive the NFL is, or how difficult it is to succeed. They tend to focus is on the here and now, and have no appreciation for the bigger - and longer term - picture, which is essential when looking at the reasons why decisions were made. An awful lot of fans demand instant success, and constant visible improvement with little or no tolerance for mistakes - and would be firing people front office staff, coaches and players on an almost weekly basis.

[Nino11]

I make no claims who did or who did not acquire the players. I was not there. TD blames Smitty. There are fans of TD who assume that is true. If we were to use that idea in a hypothetical, then if TD is getting credit for players who are successful, he should also be credited when players have failed.

It is a matter of logical consistency.

I don't recall anyone saying TD is perfect. As I said he definitely has had some straight up whiffs. Ray Edwards, letting Grimes walk, etc. But he has found gold. Same as Smitty had great success to go along with epic failure. What it boils down to is who is more to blame,talent (TD) vs coaching (Smitty) I think we had enough talent to win a championship since 08

[Duff_Man]

They had a really good off-season. Going to take one or two more to get their vision into shape.

But fans are impatient strap hanging mouth breathers, so here we are.

[Intellectually Honest]

It's a two way street. Are you saying TD has failed to acquire talent more so then Smith failed to coach the team? After the time out fiascos? After having Freemen ride the bench in favor of Steven Jackson? Ricardo Allen on the practice squad? The emphasis on mistake free football causing players to be wound up? TD can't tell Smith how to coach all he can do is acquired the players asked and make wise cap decisions. TD isn't perfect (Abraham, Grimes) but to Wayne TD hasn't gotten talent on to this team is crazy to me

If Smitty failed as a coach that is TD's failure too since he hired him. Accountability starts at the top. You can't have a double standard by crediting TD when things are good and pass the blame when things go wrong.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Intellectually Honest

[Falcon2]

If we don't win Sunday our season is over. This has been the hardest season to watch because our defense has played well with some bad penalties but our offense is so predictable it's like Pop Warner.

[Mr.11]

Yeah I agree and I said after the Saints game these mistakes were preventable but I'm not so sure now. They are looking more trend then anomaly

Still fixable errors. We're not losing these games by much. Our last 4 losses have only come by a combined 17 points (which is about an average of 4 points per loss), which says teams have only barely skated by us. This isn't a bad team, just a team in transition that needs to start ironing out the wrinkles and now if they still want to make the playoffs.

Edited December 5, 2015 by JerseyNo12

[Nino11]

If Smitty failed as a coach that is TD's failure too since he hired him. Accountability starts at the top. You can't have a double standard by crediting TD when things are good and pass the blame when things go wrong.

I get what you mean but I don't believe it's so cut and dry. Smith wasn't fired immediately after things he was overall responsible for went bad (oline issues, pass rush, underachieving defense) he had a chance to fix them to make it work. Once it became clear that wasn't happening he was let go, same will happen to TD if Quinn doesn't work

[PokerSteve]

We had a good draft class this off-season. Way above average from any standpoint. But as ukfalc said, we really don't know the inner workings of all the myriad people who influence the decisions in every round. In the years before Pioli though, I lay the majority of the problems we have on the OL and lack of pass rush on TD. Since the arrival of Pioli and now Quinn, I think TD has lost much of the direct involvement in the selection process and I believe our drafts have improved because of it. He let the core of the team disintegrate. A competent GM doesn't let that happen.

The dawn of the new Dome is fast approaching. I would imagine the clock is ticking on TD's time at Flowery Branch and he won't see a day in the owner's box in the new place if this team misses the play-offs this year and again next. As for Quinn, if his team keeps playing like it's played lately, he might not see a game as HC in the new Dome either. Blank can not move into his new high-dollar barn featuring a team that's a steaming pile. That would make him look a real clown, and more importantly, it would hurt the all-sacred bottom line.