duncja Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 We clearly have two camps right now, with half blaming Ryan and the other half blaming Shanahan. I've been vocally against Shanahan over the last 6 games, and tonight decided to look at his career as a coordinator. KS has been a coordinator since 2008, the same year that Matt Ryan was drafted. So for the sake of this I've looked at turnovers since 2008 for the Falcons and for KS coached offenses.We all know that throughout his career,Matt Ryan has been prone to turnovers, just not to the extent we've seen this year. The reason I'm bringing this up is that I'm convinced that these turnovers "follow" KS wherever he's been.As a coordinator, KS:95 of 112 games with a turnover.58 games out of 112 games with 2+ turnovers.Falcons87 of 112 with turnover42 of 112 with multiple turnovers.I would argue that we turned the ball over too much under Matt Ryan, but we brought in an offensive coordinator who's offenses historically are worse than what we've deemed as too many turnovers.I guess what I'm getting at is that this is a terrible pairing between these two. Matt Ryan isn't going anywhere, but he and KS are a terrible combo. This team is better off with a "conservative" on like Mularkey or Koetter than what we have now. This team can't win turning the ball over multiple times a game, and that's what you'll get half of the games under Shanahan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcons_own_nfc_south Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ryan Schraeder said it best: "they have figured us out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosts of Glanville Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Excellent analysis. So it looks like we have a compounding issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwifalcon Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 For me at this point in time Ryan has lost all confidence in what is being put too him every week.The quick fix for me is continue to pound the rock and screw spreading the ball round and go #11 as option A,B,C if we haven't decided to run already.I can't be bothered with the blame game its a waste of breath,I'm going to go with what we do well as much as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The O.D.B Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 You should add a list of QB's shanny has coached to your research. It's a compound problem for sure but, it's on both of them and yes they have made each other worse but, these past several games is not a good gauge to judge either. it's just all crap now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncja Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 You should add a list of QB's shanny has coached to your research. It's a compound problem for sure but, it's on both of them and yes they have made each other worse but, these past several games is not a good gauge to judge either. it's just all crap now.Oh fair enough, Schaub, Grossman, McNabb, RG3, and Hoyer. No doubt I think Matt Ryan is a different level of talent than what Shanahan has had to work with prior, but we know Ryan is prone to turnovers as it is, I'm just saying that a turnover prone QB and an OC who's offenses turn the ball over a lot, are going to equal more turnovers....which we're seeing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlrfalcon Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ryan currently has 12 Interceptions this year which would put him on pace for 17 interceptions for the year. This would match his career high in 2013 but still be around his season average of 13.On the other hand, he has had 7 fumbles this year which already has exceeded his previous career high of 6 in his 2008 rookie year and is on pace for 10 for the whole season. However, he has lost 3 of these fumbles which is still below his career high of 4 lost in 2013 but on pace to match it.The key point here is that if Ryan has 17 interceptions and 4 lost fumbles this would only match his 2013 totals but his turnover rate was not a subject that dominated the message board then.Also, his passing accuracy this year of 65.9% is only 0.2% less than 2014 and far above his 2008-2011 averages between 58.3%-61.3%.The problem with this offense is not the person throwing the ball but the man designing the playbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInBlack Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ryan is watching tape and worrying about schemes too much. He needs to relax and play. At this point he couldn't hit a tire in the back yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino11 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ryan currently has 12 Interceptions this year which would put him on pace for 17 interceptions for the year. This would match his career high in 2013 but still be around his season average of 13.On the other hand, he has had 7 fumbles this year which already has exceeded his previous career high of 6 in his 2008 rookie year and is on pace for 10 for the whole season. However, he has lost 3 of these fumbles which is still below his career high of 4 lost in 2013 but on pace to match it.The key point here is that if Ryan has 17 interceptions and 4 lost fumbles this would only match his 2013 totals but his turnover rate was not a subject that dominated the message board then.Also, his passing accuracy this year of 65.9% is only 0.2% less than 2014 and far above his 2008-2011 averages between 58.3%-61.3%.The problem with this offense is not the person throwing the ball but the man designing the playbook.Strong points but you gotta admit these are some of the worse turnovers in Ryan's career in the manner of which they happen. Its like he makes up his mind to go to a guy regardless of what he reads mid play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncja Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Strong points but you gotta admit these are some of the worse turnovers in Ryan's career in the manner of which they happen. Its like he makes up his mind to go to a guy regardless of what he reads mid playSo what changed? The offensive personnel is almost identical. New OC, new playbook, same players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent™ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ryan currently has 12 Interceptions this year which would put him on pace for 17 interceptions for the year. This would match his career high in 2013 but still be around his season average of 13.On the other hand, he has had 7 fumbles this year which already has exceeded his previous career high of 6 in his 2008 rookie year and is on pace for 10 for the whole season. However, he has lost 3 of these fumbles which is still below his career high of 4 lost in 2013 but on pace to match it.The key point here is that if Ryan has 17 interceptions and 4 lost fumbles this would only match his 2013 totals but his turnover rate was not a subject that dominated the message board then.Also, his passing accuracy this year of 65.9% is only 0.2% less than 2014 and far above his 2008-2011 averages between 58.3%-61.3%.The problem with this offense is not the person throwing the ball but the man designing the playbook.So this is Matt Ryans first near in a totally different offense and he isn't even on pace to have his worst turnover riddled season of his career? And its still Shanahans fault? Not sure i'm following your logic on that one. Do people really not understand ITS RYANS FIRST YEAR IN THIS OFFENSE? Do ya'll really expect him to come in and post career numbers his first 11 games in this offense? Also, the fumbles Ryan has had. Does he get charged with fumbles that are bad snaps by the center or do you know?I'll also say with that list of QB's that Shanahan has had are pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Radical Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 People have a strange definition of "prone to turnovers." Compared to what? The two greatest QBs of all time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncja Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 People have a strange definition of "prone to turnovers." Compared to what? The two greatest QBs of all time?My argument is that Matt Ryan tends to turnover the ball more than we like, ks offenses turnover the ball more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulitik Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I blame both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulitik Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 People have a strange definition of "prone to turnovers." Compared to what? The two greatest QBs of all time?Yup. Drew Brees makes Matt look careful with the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Radical Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 My argument is that Matt Ryan tends to turnover the ball more than we like, ks offenses turnover the ball more.Who is "we?" This board doesn't know its head from its *** when it comes to football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domed Outter Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The running game has done its job. A whole lot of work needs to be put into the passing game, mix it up better as its the same old underneath crap we've had for the past 2 seasons.The QB needs to make the open throws when they are there, no excuses.Haley and Roethlisberger had to have it out, but our QB doesn't have the cojones to do that.Right now I'm fed up with both the passing plays called, the ineptitude of missing open throws and stupid redzone turnovers by our QB, and the lack of fire and desire to question what on earth is going on.Hold up D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatboi Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 For me at this point in time Ryan has lost all confidence in what is being put too him every week.The quick fix for me is continue to pound the rock and screw spreading the ball round and go #11 as option A,B,C if we haven't decided to run already.I can't be bothered with the blame game its a waste of breath,I'm going to go with what we do well as much as I can.Running the ball should be the objective each and every week anyway. We go as the running game goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid-Nite-Toker Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Falcons lead the league in red zone turnovers (8) and MR leads all QBs with 5 red zone turnovers.What does KS have to do with it?The MM/DK hindsight love is priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino11 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So what changed? The offensive personnel is almost identical. New OC, new playbook, same players.Only logical thing is Ryan isn't comfortable in the scheme it's not like he suddenly forgot how to play QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatboi Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Falcons lead the league in red zone turnovers (8) and MR leads all QBs with 5 red zone turnovers.What does KS have to do with it?The MM/DK hindsight love is priceless.Matt has always struggled in the red zone. Early in his career turner ran in the redzone so he didn't have to pass much. TG became a red zone threat for Matt as well as turner but once turner slowed we started having issues in the red zone again. I don't know why folks are acting like the red zone issues are new. The only difference is he's throwing more red zone int's then before. We used to settle for fg's in the red zone. But ppl have forgotten that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeRom Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 when your OC stands before the press and admits that he is going to throw the football to Julio, it doesn't take a genius to "figure us out" Don't know the exact statistics but would guess that about 70 to 75% of the time he does just that...many of which are forced. Matt comes out from under center staring down Julio. If it were not for occasional throws to Tamme and even fewer to Hankerson(half of which he drops) we wouldn't need any other WR's. Let go the following either this year or next: Dimetrof(the only FO guy who has been with the Falcons since Arthur Blank bought the team); the Qb coach and Shanahan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Matt Ryan is the one making the decision to throw the ball...not KS! The interception to the TE yesterday, Matt threw the ball as if he were throwing to Tony G again who would have stepped in front of that corner to catch the ball because of his experience as a basketball player (court awareness) Matt should know better by now...he has been getting away with it so long because of the phenoms (receivers and TE) around him could take a bad pass and make it look great. Not anymore!!! Matt must now evolve to a better QB....period!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javader09 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So what changed? The offensive personnel is almost identical. New OC, new playbook, same players.Let's put this in the real world as most of us had to answer to people at work that we could not or did not agree with or like. Either we quit or wait for changes, so at 20 mil a year are you going to quit. Ryan needs to stand up to Shoddy and make Blank decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid-Nite-Toker Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Matt Ryan is the one making the decision to throw the ball...not KS! The interception to the TE yesterday, Matt threw the ball as if he were throwing to Tony G again who would have stepped in front of that corner to catch the ball because of his experience as a basketball player (court awareness) Matt should know better by now...he has been getting away with it so long because of the phenoms (receivers and TE) around him could take a bad pass and make it look great. Not anymore!!! Matt must now evolve to a better QB....period!!Proof, wisdom doesn't equal post count. +1 MR is getting punished for his in abilities...MR has to save himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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