Jump to content

Colorado Springs Shooting At Planned Parenthood Clinic. Three Confirmed Dead...


Recommended Posts

Here are some thoughts to ponder as we find out what happened. Note that all of these are hypotheticals, NOT claims about what actually happened.

Suppose this person is mentally unstable. How does that vindicate the rhetoric in politics today? Nobody thinks that poisonous rhetoric turns rational, sane people into murderers. So of course the violence will come from unhinged and unstable people. But isn't the poisonous rhetoric giving these people an identifiable target for their violent outbursts? In other words, it's more of a matter of the rhetoric directing the unhinged people to commit violence against political enemies.

Moreover, how can we stop people like this from getting access to guns? People knew he had some issues...that much is becoming clear from his background. What can we do to keep people like this from accessing weapons that increases the number of wounded and killed? Just saying "mental health" isn't an answer, because in a lot of these cases people knew there were problems. And the people whom everyone knew had problems were able to easily get access to firearms.

Also, since we had 50 pages of anti-Islam and anti-refugee rhetoric on the boards the last few weeks, doesn't this tragedy make it obvious that we have bigger threats from Americans than from refugees? Many times more people have been killed by American citizens with guns than with refugees with guns. We have the equivalent of a Paris attack every single year in America (when you combine all of the mass shootings), yet we fear refugees who have not actually attacked Americans over the past 15 years?

And finally, for those who want to immediately jump on the gun control wagon, let's find out how this person got the weapons first. Because it might be that the usual proposals wouldn't have stopped this person. Wouldn't a smarter approach to the blunt gun control policy be to target situations where you have mental illness, a pattern of troubling behavior, AND easy access to guns? In other words, why not propose smarter, targeted policy proposals to stop these situations?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 402
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This is a perfect example of what certain individuals do after a mass shooting... "Lone wolf" narrative and mental illness. Could you for once reflect on the Caucasian community just like it is forced on the black community everytime something happens? Is it possible to look in the mirror like I am forced to do everytime anything happens in my community?

I knew this would happen...

I think the better analogy is to the Paris attacks and Islam. Guilt by association only seems appropriate with Muslims or Blacks or other minorities. When ISIS attacks, it's the "mooozlims" and Islam itself. When a white guy attacks, it's a "lone wolf" and mental illness.

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way. Just highlighting that some of the same people in this thread were the ones attacking Islam as a religion following the Paris attacks. Their hypocrisy and double standards are obvious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the better analogy is to the Paris attacks and Islam. Guilt by association only seems appropriate with Muslims or Blacks or other minorities. When ISIS attacks, it's the "mooozlims" and Islam itself. When a white guy attacks, it's a "lone wolf" and mental illness.

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way. Just highlighting that some of the same people in this thread were the ones attacking Islam as a religion following the Paris attacks. Their hypocrisy and double standards are obvious.

people tell themselves whatever stories they need to sleep at night.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Kicker I could be wrong but weren't you one of the ones blaming the little girl in south Carolina for being assaulted by the police officer in the school by saying she was responsible for creating the situation?

I blamed the girl for being an idiot, not for the excessive force used by the officer. It is possible for one person to cause their predicament (being forcibly removed from a classroom) without believing that same person should be subject to an MMA style beat down.

I don't see why this is so ****ing hard for people. Obama is pretty critical of Republicans. Are you going to suggest we blame Obama the next time a conservative is killed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why this is so ****ing hard for people. Obama is pretty critical of Republicans. Are you going to suggest we blame Obama the next time a conservative is killed?

That's exactly what the conservatives in the media (and on these boards) tried to do regarding police shootings after Ferguson.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/03/12/conservative-media-blame-obama-holder-for-shoot/202881

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606040/rudy-giuliani-2-nyc-cops-were-killed-because-obama-told-everyone-to-hate-the-police/

And the fact is that the things Obama says about Republicans is nowhere near as incendiary as the things that were said against Planned Parenthood. Democrats and liberals have been guilty of incendiary language, nobody should deny that. But in the case of Planned Parenthoods, the (mostly false) accusations are on a different level.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another hypothetical, though one that is looking unlikely based on the information we have:

What if the attack wasn't really about Planned Parenthood or abortion at all? Does the lack of a *political* motive change anything regarding policy options for trying to prevent these types of attacks? Why would this attack be worse if it were politically-motivated rather than just the random targeting of a mentally unstable person?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So he just drove up to a place, that happened to be Planned Parenthood, and started shooting. You're saying it had absolutely nothing to do with Planned Parenthood?

There was a large shopping center less than a quarter mile beside the clinic. If he was going for random killings, that would have been a more obvious location. Why didn't he go there instead?

Again, we need to wait until the facts come out before making judgments, either from the left that this was because of right-wing rhetoric or from the right that this wasn't about planned parenthood at all.

Sounds like we're getting close to discovering a motive. Why not wait another 24 hours before politicizing this?

Did I say that Trout? You are reaching once again, trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Look at the guy, look where he lives, read the comments by his neighbors and you can easily see the guy is certifiable, a nut. Regardless of why he started shooting, this guy is a mental illness patient who, once again slips through our social net. Mental illness is a huge issue and no one seems willing to do anything about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's exactly what the conservatives in the media (and on these boards) tried to do regarding police shootings after Ferguson.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/03/12/conservative-media-blame-obama-holder-for-shoot/202881

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606040/rudy-giuliani-2-nyc-cops-were-killed-because-obama-told-everyone-to-hate-the-police/

And the fact is that the things Obama says about Republicans is nowhere near as incendiary as the things that were said against Planned Parenthood. Democrats and liberals have been guilty of incendiary language, nobody should deny that. But in the case of Planned Parenthoods, the (mostly false) accusations are on a different level.

The president and liberals are once again Bloviating and using this as a political football. It's pathetic and it's obvious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, I feel very sorry for the family's that this insane man has changed forever. It looks like a fine upstanding officer was killed in the line of duty as well. This is not a joke, but this is just too much. This mentally ill dude considers himself a "female". So, how can we make political hay with this Trout? What a joke our soceity is becoming.

"He is registered to vote in Park County, Colorado, and The Gazette reports that his voter registration has him listed as an “Unaffiliated female” voter instead of a Democrat or Republican. Dear’s voter registration on Colorado Voters Info lists his gender as “female.”

Edited by dirtyhairy
Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, I feel very sorry for the family's that this insane man has changed forever. It looks like a fine upstanding officer was killed in the line of duty as well. This is not a joke, but this is just too much. This mentally ill dude considers himself a "female". So, how can we make political hay with this Trout? What a joke our soceity is becoming.

"He is registered to vote in Park County, Colorado, and The Gazette reports that his voter registration has him listed as an “Unaffiliated female” voter instead of a Democrat or Republican. Dear’s voter registration on Colorado Voters Info lists his gender as “female.”

Your source is Breitbart. No surprise that you again post something from a conspiracy theory website.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the 1st I've ever heard of Breitbart being a conspiracy site. I'm sure your love affair at the Huffpo will run a story real soon, or not.

Of course this is the first time you've heard about it. Just like I'm sure you didn't realize your other sources were known for their conspiracy theories.

Some of the prominent conspiracy theories and falsehoods from Breitbart include the "Friends of Hamas" accusation against Chuck Hagel, the Shirley Sherrod tape, and the screwup over Loretta Lynch being part of Bill Clinton's Whitewater defense team.

Not surprised you'd use such a discredited source.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some new information from his neighbors in South Carolina:

The South Carolina neighbors of the man suspected in the attack on a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic say he hid food in the woods and liked to skinny dip.

John Hood said Saturday that when he moved to the small town of Walterboro about 50 miles west of Charleston, Robert Lewis Dear was living in a doublewide mobile home next door.

Hood said Dear made money by selling prints of his uncle Bill Stroud's paintings of Southern plantations and the Masters golf tournament.

Hood said that Dear rarely talked to them, and when he did, he offered unsolicited advice, including recommending that Hood put a metal roof on his home so the U.S. government couldn't spy on him.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-police-id-clinic-gunman-robert-lewis-dear-35461062

He also apparently wasn't known to two of the groups protesting this Planned Parenthood facility prior to the attacks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course this is the first time you've heard about it. Just like I'm sure you didn't realize your other sources were known for their conspiracy theories.

Some of the prominent conspiracy theories and falsehoods from Breitbart include the "Friends of Hamas" accusation against Chuck Hagel, the Shirley Sherrod tape, and the screwup over Loretta Lynch being part of Bill Clinton's Whitewater defense team.

Not surprised you'd use such a discredited source.

Ok, lets see. Would you like to compare falsehoods from Huffpo? Shall we play this game Mr.Trout?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, lets see. Would you like to compare falsehoods from Huffpo? Shall we play this game Mr.Trout?

Sure, and I recognize HuffPost as a partisan source. The stuff that I've posted in this thread (and others) have been either articles from the Associated Press and reposted on HuffPost or they have been verified by non-partisan sources.

You've posted from some pretty fringe websites in the past week or so. I'd say you have a bigger problem judging the credibility of sources than I do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

NBC reporting from two law enforcement sources:

Robert Lewis Dear, a North Carolina native who was living in a trailer in Colorado, made statements to police Friday at the scene of the Colorado Springs clinic and in interviews that law enforcement sources described as rantings.
In one statement, made after the suspect was taken in for questioning, Dear said "no more baby parts" in reference to Planned Parenthood, according to two law enforcement sources with knowledge of the case.
But the sources stressed that Dear said many things to law enforcement and the extent to which the "baby parts" remark played into any decision to target the Planned Parenthood office was not yet clear. He also mentioned President Barack Obama in statements.
The caveat is worth noting, though.
Washington Post reports that an official said that it was "definitely politically motivated", but I can't link to the story because I'm not a subscriber. Maybe somebody else can post the story?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a supposed quote from that WashPost article, but from a source that isn't very credible:

"The gunman suspected of storming a Planned Parenthood clinic and killing a police officer and two others told the officers who arrested him “no more baby parts,’’ after being taken into custody, according to a law enforcement official.
The attack on the clinic was “definitely politically motivated,’’ the official — who has been briefed on the investigation and spoke on condition of anonymity because it is still unfolding — told The Washington Post. NBC News, which first reported the comment attributed to suspect Robert Lewis Dear, said Dear also mentioned President Obama in a range of statements to investigators that left unclear his precise motivation in targeting the clinic.
Yet even as authorities worked to determine the exact motive and released few details about Friday’s shootings, the politics of the highly charged abortion issue seemed to outstrip their efforts to be methodical. While anti-abortion activists denied any knowledge of Dear and said he is not affiliated with their movement, pro-choice activists countered that rhetoric by conservatives against Planned Parenthood had precipitated the nation’s latest mass shooting.
Dear is accused of killing two civilians in addition to University of Colorado police officer Garrett Swasey, as well as injuring at least four other officers and five more civilians. He is being held without bond and is scheduled to make his first appearance in court on Monday, where he is expected to be receive state murder charges. A law enforcement official said federal charges are also being considered."
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...