Doobs Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Thread about more info on falcons scheme for defense and offense and what weaknesses there are. Right now I know that one of cover 3 weaknesses is the dunk and dunk passes. Anyone know anymore about that?Also, I forgot the scheme name that Kyle shannahan uses. Curious to know the weaknesses of this scheme used as well Edited October 10, 2015 by Ðubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDaveG Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thread about more info on falcons scheme for defense and offense and what weaknesses there are. Right now I know that one of cover 3 weaknesses is the dunk and dunk passes. Anyone know anymore about that?Also, I forgot the scheme name that Kyle shannahan uses. Curious to know the weaknesses of this scheme used as wellKyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Cooper Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 80% in the red zone soooooooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Ben Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Deep curls, deep outs and really well thrown skinny posts are some of the weaknesses of the cover 3. As for our offense, personally, were I under center in this scheme (god help the birds -- then again, I can't be that much worse than Yates), I would not like it when they dropped 8 into coverage. I would much prefer them sending 5/6/7 and dropping 6/5/4.Also, I generally think it is easier for our guys to get things cooking against man coverage; the various picks and rubs that can spring one of our guys are nice. Additionally, we are really set up well to try to exploit personnel mismatches (say Roddy/Hank on a safety or Freeway on a linebacker). Edited October 10, 2015 by Falcon Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatboi Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The weakness of cover 3 is the seam and curls or comebacks. The good thing about that is those routes usually are short gains. The weakness isn't dink and dunk. Cover 3 forces dinks and dunks. They just have to make the tackles and not give up yac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeitdown Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Weakness of the defense is it "gives up" routes so the QB can get rid of the ball. This makes it such that a poor QB can throw 5 yard passed uncontested without feeling too much pressure in his face.This forces fewer errors (generally) than pressure and tight man coverage, but it also forces a team to march down the field with short gains (assuming the team tackles well.)I'd prefer some tighter coverages when facing poor QBs, so they're forced to beat us over the top, and hold the ball a second longer so pressure can get home. But that's not generally how this D works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobs Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Weakness of the defense is it "gives up" routes so the QB can get rid of the ball. This makes it such that a poor QB can throw 5 yard passed uncontested without feeling too much pressure in his face.This forces fewer errors (generally) than pressure and tight man coverage, but it also forces a team to march down the field with short gains (assuming the team tackles well.)I'd prefer some tighter coverages when facing poor QBs, so they're forced to beat us over the top, and hold the ball a second longer so pressure can get home. But that's not generally how this D works. Ok, yea I was thinking the quick passes were a weakness but its really just an effect of cover 3. Makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raysnill1 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Kyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us.Ryan and Shanny ain't afraid to throw it downfield though. it seems like this year Ryan is throwing more passes that travel 25 yards than any season since he's been here. or maybe I'm just hallucinating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quotemokc Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Could argue a minor weakness with our offensive scheme is that we do not have a baller TE to make it even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordtobigbird Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Actually guys the scheme is design that the front 4 gets pressure. It's schemed to just let QBs complete.Pressure is very much apart of the scheme, especially on 3rd downs.You can also still play tight coverage with zone. You will see Alford and Tru up at the LOS getting physical and staying tight to the man in their zone during the route. The biggest weakness of this defensive scheme is that the #1 corner doesn't follow the #1 receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butudontseeme™ Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Kyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us.Ryan has said before that the philosophy this year on offense is a melding of Shanny's west coast principles and the previous, 4 verticals scheme. Seems to be working well. We've always known that Ryan is tremendous at play action and it has shown this year. As far as the cover 3 goes, they played some more man coverage on the outside vs the Texans which I liked to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUUUU Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The whole idea of both our offense and defense is that it isn't exploitable. We never over adjust to anything on either side of the ball and just run our stuff and execute. If you look at it from a game theory point of view both are very balanced and unexploitable. On offense we run every play out of every formation and have a counter to everything they do on defense. Unlike our defense, most other defenses cheat to something and Kyle knows exactly how to exploit every they do. Houston last game was a perfect example, they cheated the deep safety to Julios side and we just ran a formation like a quick screen that side and ran a draw up he middle and the space was wide open in the centre field. On defense you hear Quinn talk about this all the time, it's about us. Cover 3 on defense is not a tough concept. Have good corners that use outside and over the top technique and have a FS lurking in the centre field for deep posts. Then have good cover linebackers and a SS that react fast to inside and underneath stuff. Have 4 good pass rushers that can affect the position of the QB. We run cover 3 from nickel on 1st/2nd down and cover 1 man robber on 3rd down with the FS again deep lurking and either he linebacker or SS playing the shallow centre zone sometimes blitz a linebacker and very rarely the nickel corner. That's it basically, that's the whole system. It's extremely effective if the personnel are strong and good tacklers and the front 4 can generate pressure on their own. The only thing we massively have changed all year is sliding the zone coverage across against OBJ 2nd half against the Giants to cover the deep curl that he runs so well because you have to respect his deep threat and against Dallas we had a lurker for the dump off to Dunbar on third downs, I think it was Scofield who didn't rush and covered him in man instead. Don't underestimate our coaches and their knowledge of the game at their young ages, they are the best we've ever had in terms of scheme and they will compete at the highest level.I'm very excited about this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxatlanta Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Kyle will adjust so much to each opponent and in game situatuons that you have to generalize. Sure we run outside zbs, and inside zbs, and also power runs. We're west coast offense, but with 4 verticals and deep passing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 We run a lot more defensive alignments than Cover 3. We ran a lot of Base 4-3 with Man on the outside against Houston. The dink and dunk is tough to defend from any formation. Completion percentages inside 5 yards are over 80%, inside 10 yards is over 70%, league wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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