Jump to content

Weaknesses Of Scheme: Offense/defence


Doobs

Recommended Posts

Thread about more info on falcons scheme for defense and offense and what weaknesses there are. Right now I know that one of cover 3 weaknesses is the dunk and dunk passes. Anyone know anymore about that?

Also, I forgot the scheme name that Kyle shannahan uses. Curious to know the weaknesses of this scheme used as well

Edited by Ðubs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thread about more info on falcons scheme for defense and offense and what weaknesses there are. Right now I know that one of cover 3 weaknesses is the dunk and dunk passes. Anyone know anymore about that?

Also, I forgot the scheme name that Kyle shannahan uses. Curious to know the weaknesses of this scheme used as well

Kyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.

I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deep curls, deep outs and really well thrown skinny posts are some of the weaknesses of the cover 3.

As for our offense, personally, were I under center in this scheme (god help the birds -- then again, I can't be that much worse than Yates), I would not like it when they dropped 8 into coverage. I would much prefer them sending 5/6/7 and dropping 6/5/4.

Also, I generally think it is easier for our guys to get things cooking against man coverage; the various picks and rubs that can spring one of our guys are nice. Additionally, we are really set up well to try to exploit personnel mismatches (say Roddy/Hank on a safety or Freeway on a linebacker).

Edited by Falcon Ben
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakness of the defense is it "gives up" routes so the QB can get rid of the ball. This makes it such that a poor QB can throw 5 yard passed uncontested without feeling too much pressure in his face.

This forces fewer errors (generally) than pressure and tight man coverage, but it also forces a team to march down the field with short gains (assuming the team tackles well.)

I'd prefer some tighter coverages when facing poor QBs, so they're forced to beat us over the top, and hold the ball a second longer so pressure can get home. But that's not generally how this D works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakness of the defense is it "gives up" routes so the QB can get rid of the ball. This makes it such that a poor QB can throw 5 yard passed uncontested without feeling too much pressure in his face.

This forces fewer errors (generally) than pressure and tight man coverage, but it also forces a team to march down the field with short gains (assuming the team tackles well.)

I'd prefer some tighter coverages when facing poor QBs, so they're forced to beat us over the top, and hold the ball a second longer so pressure can get home. But that's not generally how this D works.

Ok, yea I was thinking the quick passes were a weakness but its really just an effect of cover 3. Makes sense
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.

I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us.

Ryan and Shanny ain't afraid to throw it downfield though. it seems like this year Ryan is throwing more passes that travel 25 yards than any season since he's been here. or maybe I'm just hallucinating

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually guys the scheme is design that the front 4 gets pressure. It's schemed to just let QBs complete.

Pressure is very much apart of the scheme, especially on 3rd downs.

You can also still play tight coverage with zone. You will see Alford and Tru up at the LOS getting physical and staying tight to the man in their zone during the route.

The biggest weakness of this defensive scheme is that the #1 corner doesn't follow the #1 receiver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyle Shanahan runs a West Coast Offense with a zone blocking scheme. Same scheme his dad ran in Denver for many years and the same scheme we had under Mora/Knapp.

I'm a fan of the scheme, so as far as I'm concerned the weaknesses are overblown. Some say it lacks red zone efficiency, some say it relies too much on the short passing game. I say look at our offense and tell me where those are problems for us.

Ryan has said before that the philosophy this year on offense is a melding of Shanny's west coast principles and the previous, 4 verticals scheme. Seems to be working well. We've always known that Ryan is tremendous at play action and it has shown this year.

As far as the cover 3 goes, they played some more man coverage on the outside vs the Texans which I liked to see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole idea of both our offense and defense is that it isn't exploitable. We never over adjust to anything on either side of the ball and just run our stuff and execute. If you look at it from a game theory point of view both are very balanced and unexploitable.

On offense we run every play out of every formation and have a counter to everything they do on defense. Unlike our defense, most other defenses cheat to something and Kyle knows exactly how to exploit every they do. Houston last game was a perfect example, they cheated the deep safety to Julios side and we just ran a formation like a quick screen that side and ran a draw up he middle and the space was wide open in the centre field.

On defense you hear Quinn talk about this all the time, it's about us. Cover 3 on defense is not a tough concept. Have good corners that use outside and over the top technique and have a FS lurking in the centre field for deep posts. Then have good cover linebackers and a SS that react fast to inside and underneath stuff. Have 4 good pass rushers that can affect the position of the QB. We run cover 3 from nickel on 1st/2nd down and cover 1 man robber on 3rd down with the FS again deep lurking and either he linebacker or SS playing the shallow centre zone sometimes blitz a linebacker and very rarely the nickel corner. That's it basically, that's the whole system. It's extremely effective if the personnel are strong and good tacklers and the front 4 can generate pressure on their own.

The only thing we massively have changed all year is sliding the zone coverage across against OBJ 2nd half against the Giants to cover the deep curl that he runs so well because you have to respect his deep threat and against Dallas we had a lurker for the dump off to Dunbar on third downs, I think it was Scofield who didn't rush and covered him in man instead.

Don't underestimate our coaches and their knowledge of the game at their young ages, they are the best we've ever had in terms of scheme and they will compete at the highest level.

I'm very excited about this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We run a lot more defensive alignments than Cover 3. We ran a lot of Base 4-3 with Man on the outside against Houston.

The dink and dunk is tough to defend from any formation. Completion percentages inside 5 yards are over 80%, inside 10 yards is over 70%, league wide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...