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I honestly think you're both making the same point. Freeman averaged around five yards a carry all day long, which is **** near ideal. He didn't average 2ypc and have his stats padded by one big run.

He popped off nearly 5 per, which wore their D the **** out, kept their offense off the field, and allowed us to put up some points and blank them in the second half, because our D was rested when they had to hit the field.

no he had a great point about the player, but that method...

Anyways it had nothing to do with what he said, it was the method. The same method is used on this board to try and negate the plays of good players. If I feel that way about it being used against players, it doesn't change when you use it for a player.

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No, but he was inaccurate and couldn't sustain a drive and keep the defense off the field. The same thing that killed the cowboys in the second half.

Clearly you and I didn't watch the same game.

Drive #1 - 3 Plays, -3 Yards, 2:08 - Punt

1. Freeman run for 1 yard.

2. Freeman run for 1 yard.

3. Ryan sacked for -5 yards.

4. Punt

Drive #2 - 11 Plays, 80 Yards, 4:07 - Touchdown

Drive #3 - 3 Plays, 8 Yards, 2:17 - Punt

1. Freeman run for 7 yards.

2. Ryan pass to White for 17 yards. Penalty (illegal man downfield) makes it 2nd and 8.

3. Ryan pass to Freeman for 6 yards.

4. Ryan pass Incomplete to Julio. Bad decision there. Should have thrown it to Freeman for the 1st down.

5. Punt

Drive #4 - 3 Plays, 6 Yards, 1:22 - Punt

1. Freeman run for -2 yards.

2. Ryan pass to Tamme for 8 yards.

3. Ryan pass incomplete to Hankerson. Not a terrible decision. Might have had someone else open. But could have easily been called illegal contact against the Cowboys for hitting Hankerson while the ball was in the air. Julio or Roddy probably makes the catch to because it wasn't a bad throw. Looked to go right through Hankerson's hands.

4. Punt

Drive #5 - 7 Plays, 23 Yards, 3:32 - Touchdown

Drive #6 - 6 Plays, 66 Yards, 0:40 - Field Goal

So I say one drive was killed because of a penalty and another killed by them not calling a penalty against the Cowboys.

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Sanders' power element is incredibly underrated nowadays. He broke a ton of tackles and I wasn't even alive for the majority of his games. Not Bo Jackson but the dude had a slippery sort of power.

Either way, what you're saying isn't true, I'm not even going to look up the game logs but it flat out isn't. Feel free to look them up yourself. Guarantee he had games without giant runs like you're saying where he still had a ton of yards.

There are so many statistics now you can drown in them. But Football Outsiders has one callrd success rate which speaks to this very conversation. It is defined as:

Success Rate. This number represents the player's consistency, measured by successful running plays (the definition of success being different based on down and distance) divided by total running plays. A player with higher DVOA and a low success rate mixes long runs with downs getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. A player with lower DVOA and a high success rate generally gets the yards needed, but doesn't often get more. Success Rate is further explained here. It is not adjusted for opponent.

If you look through those seasons there are a few Barry is top ten but most he is middle of the pack and in some he is not even top thirty. I am in no way making a stand on Sanders but I always rooted for the Lions as huge underdogs and he always drove me nuts. When I wanted him to just take the yards there to move the chains he was juking trying to make highlight reels and would many times take a negative gain. Anyways.

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no he had a great point about the player, but that method...

Anyways it had nothing to do with what he said, it was the method. The same method is used on this board to try and negate the plays of good players. If I feel that way about it being used against players, it doesn't change when you use it for a player.

No, I understand. Statistics can be used for good or evil. I would have gone with evil to get Dunn the **** out of here, and you've already stated that you feel such tactics are a breach of integrity and defended that... wonderful human being, but ineffective running back.

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Clearly you and I didn't watch the same game.

Drive #1 - 3 Plays, -3 Yards, 2:08 - Punt

1. Freeman run for 1 yard.

2. Freeman run for 1 yard.

3. Ryan sacked for -5 yards.

4. Punt

Drive #2 - 11 Plays, 80 Yards, 4:07 - Touchdown

Drive #3 - 3 Plays, 8 Yards, 2:17 - Punt

1. Freeman run for 7 yards.

2. Ryan pass to White for 17 yards. Penalty (illegal man downfield) makes it 2nd and 8.

3. Ryan pass to Freeman for 6 yards.

4. Ryan pass Incomplete to Julio. Bad decision there. Should have thrown it to Freeman for the 1st down.

5. Punt

Drive #4 - 3 Plays, 6 Yards, 1:22 - Punt

1. Freeman run for -2 yards.

2. Ryan pass to Tamme for 8 yards.

3. Ryan pass incomplete to Hankerson. Not a terrible decision. Might have had someone else open. But could have easily been called illegal contact against the Cowboys for hitting Hankerson while the ball was in the air. Julio or Roddy probably makes the catch to because it wasn't a bad throw. Looked to go right through Hankerson's hands.

4. Punt

Drive #5 - 7 Plays, 23 Yards, 3:32 - Touchdown

Drive #6 - 6 Plays, 66 Yards, 0:40 - Field Goal

So I say one drive was killed because of a penalty and another killed by them not calling a penalty against the Cowboys.

Ryan threw several short that I'm not seeing in a brief scan of your chronology.

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No, I understand. Statistics can be used for good or evil. I would have gone with evil to get Dunn the **** out of here, and you've already stated that you feel such tactics are a breach of integrity and defended that... wonderful human being, but ineffective running back.

I was never a fan of his, but I don't have to remove outliers to explain why. Mainly he was only good when Vick was on. When Vick was hurt, he was garbage. When Vick went to Fed he was garbage.
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No, but he was inaccurate and couldn't sustain a drive and keep the defense off the field. The same thing that killed the cowboys in the second half.

Our defense killed the Cowboys in the second half. Their offense killed our defense in the 1st half. We started on defense so how did Matt keep them on the field?? The first drive Dallas had was what? 2 or 3 plays?? The second drive they scored. So that's on the defense. Not Matt. 1st half score was 28-17. That's on the defense. We out up 17 points which, could be a whole game worth of points for some. 25 unanswered points in the second half. DEFENSE.

Moral of the story is the defense was a turnstile in the 1st half.

Put the clamps on in the second.

Sometimes an offense has to figure out what a defense is gonna do to get rolling but our defense started bad. You must've forgot we differed the kickoff to set a tone on D. Not on Matt.

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Our defense killed the Cowboys in the second half. Their offense killed our defense in the 1st half. We started on defense so how did Matt keep them on the field?? The first drive Dallas had was what? 2 or 3 plays?? The second drive they scored. So that's on the defense. Not Matt. 1st half score was 28-17. That's on the defense. We out up 17 points which, could be a whole game worth of points for some. 25 unanswered points in the second half. DEFENSE.

Moral of the story is the defense was a turnstile in the 1st half.

Put the clamps on in the second.

Sometimes an offense has to figure out what a defense is gonna do to get rolling but our defense started bad. You must've forgot we differed the kickoff to set a tone on D. Not on Matt.

Because he kept throwing it in the dirt. I'm a fan of Ryan's. He did not start yesterday at his best.

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Ryan threw several short that I'm not seeing in a brief scan of your chronology.

You said Ryan's inaccuracy was the reason the Falcons couldn't sustain drives in the 1st half. What I just posted disproves that. The Falcons punted 3 times in the 1st half.

Punt #1 - Ryan was sacked on 3rd down because the entire line collapsed on top of him.

Punt #2 - Falcons actually gained a 1st down only to have it called back and the drive ended up being stopped.

Punt #3 - Falcons should have gotten an illegal contact penalty against the Cowboys that would have kept the drive going.

Did Ryan have some inaccurate throws in the 1st half? Yes. Was he the reason the Falcons punted 3 times and the defense gave up 28 points? No.

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You said Ryan's inaccuracy was the reason the Falcons couldn't sustain drives in the 1st half. What I just posted disproves that. The Falcons punted 3 times in the 1st half.

Punt #1 - Ryan was sacked on 3rd down because the entire line collapsed on top of him.

Punt #2 - Falcons actually gained a 1st down only to have it called back and the drive ended up being stopped.

Punt #3 - Falcons should have gotten an illegal contact penalty against the Cowboys that would have kept the drive going.

Did Ryan have some inaccurate throws in the 1st half? Yes. Was he the reason the Falcons punted 3 times and the defense gave up 28 points? No.

Bounced a pair off Hayden.

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