DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 No, agenda looks like this...http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/4021216-here-is-the-problem/page-1Oh, so saying the GM is "standing sweet" is agenda-driven bigotry? Come on, coop! Open your eyes! That's objective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigerfan Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 3 pro bowlers selected in the 2nd round in 2011, Cobb the only player actually being available @ our pick.After Cobb, Demarco Murray and Justin Houston were the only other players selected that made the pro bowl in the entire draft.2012 - Only one player has been to the pro bowl that was selected outside the top 10 in the 1st round. RB Doug Martin.After Martin only SIX pro bowlers were drafted for the REST OF THE DRAFT.And FFS1970 thinks he could have drafted FIVE pro bowlers with the Julio picks. JUST LOL.Better odds of winning the lottery champ.Good point. Draft picks are way overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid-Nite-Toker Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 In the grand scheme of things draft picks are overrated. Aside from having a young player at a reasonable cost for a few years, a high draft pick is still 50/50 to even develop into a high caliber starter. TD will make a calculated trade to move up even if it means sacrificing some draft selections. Julio and Tru have been worth what we have given up to get them, as they are our best Offensive and Defensive players.I think the move up for JJ vs Tru are not comparable.Tru was a "need" at the time, JJ wasn't...2011 playoff loss to Giants verified that.Tru was nowhere near as costly and can be an equivalent "star" at his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Ughhhhhh this debate again? To point to one thing and say "That's why we failed." or "That's why we succeeded.", is a completely asinine statement to make. Did giving away these draft picks help the Falcons, yes and no. Yes, in terms of the fact that we got one of the best receivers in the league. No, in terms of the fact that we gave up quite a few picks. That being said there is no guarantee that these players would have panned out. There are a bunch of hypocrites on this subject that say in one breathe "TD is an awful GM and can't draft to save his life." then in another "The Julio trade wiped out our depth and cost us from getting X, Y, & Z player.", if TD can't draft then what makes you believe that he would have selected the right players? And if you believe he can draft, why say he can't? The hindsight games is way too prevalent these days. "Oh I would have drafted so & so player". You know who I would have drafted if I was in charge Donald, Murray, Charles, Johnson and Nelson. Sounds good right? Yeah... No... I would have also drafted Dorsey, Brohm, Cody, and Borland. These are a few players I would have hit/missed on. The problem is, you are only as good as the sum of your parts. No every player is going to be a superstar. What we have always lacked was depth, no matter what year we were in. Want to know why we sucked? Our scheme on both sides of the ball were $hit. We had no direction. Our depth was terrible. Our defense and offensive line were laughable. Our free agent acquisitions were atrocious. Our coach didn't make adjustments. We had a cornucopia of injuries. Our team gave up. We were annihilated against superior competition. And we never established an identity. I know I missed a few but those are the gist of itit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of God Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Oh, so saying the GM is "standing sweet" is agenda-driven bigotry? Come on, coop! Open your eyes! That's objective!bigotry?ok, now some things are starting to make a little sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfalc Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 In the grand scheme of things draft picks are overrated. Aside from having a young player at a reasonable cost for a few years, a high draft pick is still 50/50 to even develop into a high caliber starter. TD will make a calculated trade to move up even if it means sacrificing some draft selections. Julio and Tru have been worth what we have given up to get them, as they are our best Offensive and Defensive players.The very low cost of draft picks, is what makes them so valuable and makes the draft absolutely critical to success in the NFL. The draft is the only chance your get to find talent, without having to pay a premium for it. The limitations of the salary cap and prices of top FA make it impossible to build a complete team via free agency, so you HAVE to be able to stock a sizeable part of your roster and find many starters through the draft. With draft picks being such a lottery your best chance of doing that, lies in hoarding picks.Trading too many picks away leaves you with no room for error and have to hit on all of your picks to fill your needs. With the draft being such a lottery, that is simply not realistic. The upshot, is that you end up having either trying to fill needs with late round picks (who are unlikely to be good enough to fill them, because the number of great players available in that part of the draft is very small), or filling out the roster with even less talented UFA's.In the same way that teams who try to buy success by overpaying for a handful of big name FA's end up with teams that lack talent and depth, teams who trade up and put all of their draft resources in to a handful of top draft prospects end up the same position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ7000 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 i think the idea of jones was to take us to super bowl and win .... I dont see one for us YET .... I like the dude and think it was a good gamble but i hate to say in all that we crapped out and missed that window... We did get very close a few times.... But now we have to build another o - line and keep developing the defense to get back to the big dance... i just hope Jones and Ryan are still healthy when that happens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 bigotry?ok, now some things are starting to make a little senseYep, bigotry. On a cupple two-tree levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of God Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Yep, bigotry. On a cupple two-tree levels. uh huh...on those grounds alone I want dude gone even more...no socio-political in my football...thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isosceles Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Once TD had a clear cut direction on what type of defensive and offensive schemes we were implementing, he was able to acquire a dozen or more seasoned scheme specific veterans in a single offseason and also draft several scheme specific players already contributing. Heck, even our 5th round rookie Tuggle2 almost got a sack in Monday game. The argument that is was a mere few draft picks that tanked our 2013 and 2014 seasons because It wiped out our depth with no way to recover has been completely shot down in flames. It's indisputable. In fact, trading a few picks in 2011 for the best WR in the NFL, who currently has the highest yards per game in NFL history, who has only played 4 seasons and is just now entering his prime, who was just voted best offensive player in the NFL this week, who ALREADY helped us get 10 yards from a Super Bowl in 2012, who will benefit us for years to come was a brilliant move. The notion that we went 10-22 those years because we couldn't bring in 3 depth players to replace the picks is foolish. It was not a few draft picks traded that led to a 10-22 run in 2013- 2014, the problem was mainly a lack of direction. A lack of direction that negatively influenced player acquisition. ( again, just look at the player acquisition this offseason now that we had direction) The fact is, TDs Julio Jones trade is looking more prescient as time goes by. I am going to say this post was made way too soon. One game, one win, and it seems like someone thinks the team has arrived. I understand the optimism. But he has not taken the team to the promised land yet. Nor anyone else for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durrtay Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 These threads are uncalled for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTBF54 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 TD... Juliooooooooooo........ End this tread................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy15 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I just hope Julio stays healthy and plays a full season. Seem's to me he stays hurt a lot and misses numerous games the last couple seasons. He is only worth the big bucks if he plays each week and not sitting on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazoo Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 I am going to say this post was made way too soon. One game, one win, and it seems like someone thinks the team has arrived.I understand the optimism. But he has not taken the team to the promised land yet. Nor anyone else for that matter.Where did I say we had more than 1 win this year? Please provide the link.As is always the case in the NFL, anything can happen. We could go winless the rest of the year or we could go to Super Bowl. Welcome to the NFL if for some reason you think otherwise.That said, I agree with Adam Shefter, Jamie Dukes and many of the pundits and fans who saw that game Monday night and noticed many good things going on they didn't see last year, or in any past year and are excited about this teams prospects this year. Slamming the QB to the turf 8 times IS an improvement from last year PERIOD. We ARE a much deeper team already PERIOD. We don't need more than 1 win to see these things. The troffed meme is about player acquisition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allknowing Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 RamsFanSince2015 is just killing time trolling till gurlie finally takes the field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggressive Pacifist! Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 RamsFan? Why Rams? I spent pretty much the entire offseason away from these boards so I must have missed why FFS1970 is a rams fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskooler Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 RamsFanSince2015 is just killing time trolling till gurlie finally takes the fieldI will laugh and laugh to no end if Gurley becomes the next Ron Dayne or Blair Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskooler Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 RamsFan? Why Rams? I spent pretty much the entire offseason away from these boards so I must have missed why FFS1970 is a rams fan.He's a Gurley-licking fanboi, raving incessantly on and on and on about how drafting Beasley instead of Gurley will cause the NFL to shut down and disenfranchise the Falcons. Hideously obnoxious about it. Won't shut up about it. And I am proud to claim the credit for coining the nickname "RamsFanSince2015". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 That was a great read. Thanks for posting.So, yes, it's well established that, while I like the player it yielded, I didn't like the Julio trade and never will. What does that have to do with the fact that you spend your ample free time pretending to be an NFL GM and failing miserably at it?And yes, I vehemently disagreed with your silly idea of reaching for Murray in the first round. I still wouldn't have taken him that early. I actually prefer to get value out of my draft picks. So, how does Swift digging up a post saying that I liked Murray in the later rounds where he was actually taken make me "busted"?Finally, when g-dawg comes over for play dates, which one of you plays the TD role, and which one of you plays the Pioli role? Or do you just take turns?Well I would have leaped on Houston sittin there in the first. Murray would've been next. Both would have been Falcons. I would have taken either in the first and kept the four additional picks. Both have beasted since then. You said you would have taken Murray, then a couple years later got caught by Swifty saying Murray was injury prone and you wouldn't have taken him. He's played in more games and has more yards and TDs than Julio, who cost four more picks and $63M guaranteed. LMAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 We absolutely should have taken DeMarco Murray in the 4th round of that draft.Problem is, he wasn't there. Martez Wilson tho....Dimi took Akeem The Dream that year bro. In three years Martez Wilson doubled his stats with ONE start. Dream had twenty starts. Criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 In the grand scheme of things draft picks are overrated. Aside from having a young player at a reasonable cost for a few years, a high draft pick is still 50/50 to even develop into a high caliber starter. TD will make a calculated trade to move up even if it means sacrificing some draft selections. Julio and Tru have been worth what we have given up to get them, as they are our best Offensive and Defensive players. OK so now draft picks are overrated, when 91.7% of TATF believes we should build through the draft. OK. Dimi has burned 10-15 draft picks on Julio, Tru, Sackmaker, Quizz, and many more. Not a good look when you have no idea how to draft past the second round. His only late round gem so far is a punter. He was one of the worst late round GMs before he lost his draft powers. Add in his questionable free agent signings and you get 10-22 and a demotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK Manley Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 $63M guaranteed. LMAO.No idea where that number came from, but his $47 million guaranteed includes the $10 million he was already guaranteed for this year.And the $20+ million cap hits for "Megatron money" didn't happen like you predicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Mo Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 #1-27)Gabe Carimi, OT-Wisconsin It was said in Mark Bradley's AJC column today that, in fact, Dimitroff said this would have been the pick given the choices on the board at #27.#2-59)Greg Little, WR-North Carolina I don't know if this would have been the pick or not, however this was the guy that I loved and he has a ton of ability and similiar size, strength, skills to Julio. Ironically, Cleveland took Greg Little at the Falcons #59 old spot. I hope for sake of my sanity that Julio's career dwarfs Greg Little's career. It would not suprise me if Greg Little has a fantastic career - he has the talent.#3-91)Rashad Carmichael,CB-Virginia Tech This guy has a lot of talent and plays the way the Falcons like their corners to play - physical, able to play in zone coverage and off-man coverage. Carmichael is also a ball-hawk who has ball skills and a lot of interceptions#4-124)Jacquizz Rogers,RB-Oregon State Obviously the Falcons took this playmaker a round later but traded up 13 spots in 5th round to get him - therefore I take him here, one round earlier.#5-158)Quan Sturdivant,LB-Nort Carolina Obviously the Falcons liked Akeem Dent better but scouted Quan Sturdivant as well. I cannot assume Dent would have dropped this far but Sturdivant was available at this spot and would have made a good pick#6-192)Virgil Green,TE-Nevada I'm not sure if Gren would have fit in Falcons offense as I don't know if Green could carry out the blocking duties required. Apparently there were some concerns about a micro-fracture surgery on Green's knee from a few years ago and this is why he dropped. Assuming we got him this late, he would be worth the flier with his great talent.#7-209)Andrew Jackson-OG Fresno State Falcons did draft this guy. Mean, nasty offensive guard to develop and eventually replace Harvey Dahl in two years. needs to put on about 10 pounds of muscle.#7-229)Cliff Matthews,DE-South Carolina a "try hard" guy that can play special teams as well. Needs to bulk up about 10 lbs and could develop later into a pass-rushing option. Obviously the Falcons did draft this guy at same position.#7-230)Chas Henry,P-Florida has a booming leg and would easily outperform Michael Koenan for 1/4 of the money which frees up Falcons to get free agents at more needed positions.Oh. My. God. My sides are hurting so much right now.This is the worst draft I've ever seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Ughhhhhh this debate again? To point to one thing and say "That's why we failed." or "That's why we succeeded.", is a completely asinine statement to make.Did giving away these draft picks help the Falcons, yes and no. Yes, in terms of the fact that we got one of the best receivers in the league. No, in terms of the fact that we gave up quite a few picks. That being said there is no guarantee that these players would have panned out.There are a bunch of hypocrites on this subject that say in one breathe "TD is an awful GM and can't draft to save his life." then in another "The Julio trade wiped out our depth and cost us from getting X, Y, & Z player.", if TD can't draft then what makes you believe that he would have selected the right players? And if you believe he can draft, why say he can't?The hindsight games is way too prevalent these days. "Oh I would have drafted so & so player". You know who I would have drafted if I was in charge Donald, Murray, Charles, Johnson and Nelson. Sounds good right? Yeah... No... I would have also drafted Dorsey, Brohm, Cody, and Borland. These are a few players I would have hit/missed on. The problem is, you are only as good as the sum of your parts. No every player is going to be a superstar. What we have always lacked was depth, no matter what year we were in.Want to know why we sucked? Our scheme on both sides of the ball were $hit. We had no direction. Our depth was terrible. Our defense and offensive line were laughable. Our free agent acquisitions were atrocious. Our coach didn't make adjustments. We had a cornucopia of injuries. Our team gave up. We were annihilated against superior competition. And we never established an identity. I know I missed a few but those are the gist of itit.Hindsight my as. There are sixteen TATers on this board that would have drafted better bro. Buddy got his draft privileges stripped. What part of that don't yall understand? Our sht schemes got us 56-24, two divisions, five back to backs, two byes, four playoff seasons, second best record in the league and an NFCCG appearance. Quinn will have to coach his as off or turn Dimi's roster at a rapid pace to match that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Mo Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 How are the "haters" wrong? No one denied that JJ was a great player. What the "haters" hated, was that getting that player would sacrifice the overall quality of the team.So far the "haters" are correct. Do you think 4-12 and 6-10 the last 2 years is worth ANY player let alone JJ?Now not only do we have hindsight, we also now have selective hindsight.Hey "intellectually honest", did you know that with Julio, we got to within ten yards of the SB?And that we also had an 10-6 season prior to that?It's pretty obvious Julio, nor did his trade have anything to do with our defense/offensive line being so bad these past two years.As outlined earlier in this thread, we took steps to fix that post-Julio trade. It just didn't work with Smitty having the keys.Logically, you can't assume with the Julio trade axed, the same results wouldn't have happened.Face it buddy, Julio helped this team get further than any other five picks could have.You can deny it all you want, but deep down we all know this is true.Your archaic idea that "WRs don't win championships" is completely wrong and can be applied to literally every other highly-paid position in the NFL. The continued ignorance of these facts is baffling.You guy just can't admit you were wrong. On the internet to a bunch of anonymous strangers no less. The rope a dope game in this in continuous other threads about this is pointless.Julio was a better outcome than any single one of those five picks would have made.Not just because he's a generational talent, also because of TD's poor drafting history.HeII, it's almost as if he saved himself from screwing things up by making the move to get a superstar.It makes no logical sense to believe we could have hit on every single pick, and that said picks would have gotten us further than the NFCCGYou can continue on this train of thought as long as want.Just know, you're not being "intellectually honest" in doing so. You're being stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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