Revisiting The Julio Jones Trade - Haters Were Wrong

[g-dawg]

Even though I know this is gonna be completely pointless to even mention, the problem with depth, or as you put it, lack of as beatin' starters, was never the Julio Jones trade, it is the overall track record of drafting since 2008.

We have a grand total of five players left on our roster from the 2008-2012 drafts. That's right, FIVE.

2008 - 2 (Matt Ryan, First Round and Kroy Biermann, Fifth Round)

2009 - 1 (William Moore, Second Round)

2010 - 0

2011 - 2 (Julio Jones, First Round and Matt Bosher, Sixth Round)

2012 - 0

First, I want to de-couple Julio from your analysis above. Julio move was a good one and the above actually proves it good.

For a GM to have FIVE players left on a roster from drafts 4-8 years ago sounds bad - on top of that, one of those five is a punter (granted a very good punter!). I don't know what the average would be but I would be surprised if it was much higher than maybe EIGHT players though - NFL does stand for "Not-For-Long" and rosters turn quickly. Pick any randomly good team and see how many players they have left from those drafts - then we will have a basis for conversation.

I agree though - that stat looks horrible.

[cooperbh]

You asked for it:

In post #30 here, and in response to g-dawg's alternative mock, you thought that a combination of Carimi, Little, and Quan Sturdivant would have been awesome compared to Julio!!!

In post #35 here, you offer 4 alternative mocks that have Justin Houston/Martez Wilson, Derek Sherrod/Jabaal Sheard/, Aaron Williams/Jabaal Sheard, Kyle Rudolph/Jabaal Sheard as your first two choices instead of Julio. As your 4th rounder you had Murray who wouldn't have been there, or Virgil Green.

Thank you so much for this. Seeing g-dawg and 70 bounce their lame pick ideas off each other as if either has the first clue what it takes to occupy an NFL front office or war room is pure comedy gold. What a couple of boobs.

Oh, and before 70 goes back and does his customary edit/delete job:

MOCK A

-Round 1 (27) - Justin Houston (DE) - Georgia - 6'3" 270 lbs, 4.62 forty

-Round 2 (59) - Martez Wilson (LB) - Illinois - 6'4" 250 lbs, 4.42 forty

-Round 3 (91) - Edmund Gates (WR) - Abilene Christian - 6'0" 192 lbs, 4.31 forty

-Round 4 (124) - Virgil Green (TE) - Nevada - 6'3" 249 lbs, 4.54 forty

-Round 5 (158) - Zack Hurd (OG) - Connecticut - 6'7" 316 lbs, 5.28 forty

-Round 6 (192) - DeMarcus Van Dyke (CB) - Miami - 6'1" 176 lbs, 4.25 forty

-Round 7 (209) - Ricardo Lockette (WR) - Fort Valley State - 6'2" 211 lbs, 4.34 forty

-Round 7 (229) - Noel Devine (RB) - West Virginia - 5'8" 179 lbs, 4.54 forty

-Round 7 (230) - Ryan Donahue (P) - Iowa - 6'2" 193 lbs, 4.90 forty

MOCK B

-Round 1 (27) - Derek Sherrod (OT) - Mississippi St. - 6'5" 321 lbs, 5.18 forty

-Round 2 (59) - Jabaal Sheard (DE) - Pittsburgh - 6'3" 264 lbs, 4.68 forty

-Round 3 (91) - Edmund Gates (WR) - Abilene Christian - 6'0" 192 lbs, 4.31 forty

-Round 4 (124) - DeMarco Murray (RB) - Oklahoma - 6'0" 213 lbs, 4.37 forty

-Round 5 (158) - Zack Hurd (OG) - Connecticut - 6'7" 316 lbs, 5.28 forty

-Round 6 (192) - Henry Hynoski (FB) - Pittsburgh - 6'0" 257 lbs, 5.06 forty

-Round 7 (209) - Ricardo Lockette (WR) - Fort Valley State - 6'2" 211 lbs, 4.34 forty

-Round 7 (229) - Ryan Donahue (P) - Iowa - 6'2" 193 lbs, 4.90 forty

-Round 7 (230) - Kai Forbath (K) - UCLA - 5'11" 197 lbs, 4.78 forty

MOCK C

-Round 1 (27) - Aaron Williams (CB) - Texas - 6'0" 204 lbs, 4.55 forty

-Round 2 (59) - Jabaal Sheard (DE) - Pittsburgh - 6'3" 264 lbs, 4.68 forty

-Round 3 (91) - Edmund Gates (WR) - Abilene Christian - 6'0" 192 lbs, 4.31 forty

-Round 4 (124) - DeMarco Murray (RB) - Oklahoma - 6'0" 213 lbs, 4.37 forty

-Round 5 (158) - Zack Hurd (OG) - Connecticut - 6'7" 316 lbs, 5.28 forty

-Round 6 (192) - Henry Hynoski (FB) - Pittsburgh - 6'0" 257 lbs, 5.06 forty

-Round 7 (209) - Ricardo Lockette (WR) - Fort Valley State - 6'2" 211 lbs, 4.34 forty

-Round 7 (229) - Ryan Donahue (P) - Iowa - 6'2" 193 lbs, 4.90 forty

-Round 7 (230) - Kai Forbath (K) - UCLA - 5'11" 197 lbs, 4.78 forty

MOCK D

-Round 1 (27) - Kyle Rudolph (TE) - Notre Dame - 6'6" 259 lbs, 4.83 forty

-Round 2 (59) - Jabaal Sheard (DE) - Pittsburgh - 6'3" 264 lbs, 4.68 forty

-Round 3 (91) - Marcus Gilchrist (CB) - Clemson - 5'10" 195 lbs, 4.45 forty

-Round 4 (124) - DeMarco Murray (RB) - Oklahoma - 6'0" 213 lbs, 4.37 forty

-Round 5 (158) - Zack Hurd (OG) - Connecticut - 6'7" 316 lbs, 5.28 forty

-Round 6 (192) - Mike Mohamed (LB) - California - 6'3" 239 lbs, 4.65 forty

-Round 7 (209) - Ricardo Lockette (WR) - Fort Valley State - 6'2" 211 lbs, 4.34 forty

-Round 7 (229) - Ryan Donahue (P) - Iowa - 6'2" 193 lbs, 4.90 forty

-Round 7 (230) - Kai Forbath (K) - UCLA - 5'11" 197 lbs, 4.78 forty

Jeez. 4 drafts. 18 different prospects. 1 perennially productive NFL player. A player who, unlike Julio, hasn't helped his team to a single playoff win since his arrival. Total clown shoes.

Oh, and how about this alternate gem from our resident draft "guru"...

'g-dawg', on 02 May 2011 - 11:13 AM, said

#1-27)Gabe Carimi, OT-Wisconsin

It was said in Mark Bradley's AJC column today that, in fact, Dimitroff said this would have been the pick given the choices on the board at #27.

#2-59)Greg Little, WR-North Carolina

I don't know if this would have been the pick or not, however this was the guy that I loved and he has a ton of ability and similiar size, strength, skills to Julio. Ironically, Cleveland took Greg Little at the Falcons #59 old spot. I hope for sake of my sanity that Julio's career dwarfs Greg Little's career. It would not suprise me if Greg Little has a fantastic career - he has the talent.

#3-91)Rashad Carmichael,CB-Virginia Tech

This guy has a lot of talent and plays the way the Falcons like their corners to play - physical, able to play in zone coverage and off-man coverage. Carmichael is also a ball-hawk who has ball skills and a lot of interceptions

#4-124)Jacquizz Rogers,RB-Oregon State

Obviously the Falcons took this playmaker a round later but traded up 13 spots in 5th round to get him - therefore I take him here, one round earlier.

#5-158)Quan Sturdivant,LB-Nort Carolina

Obviously the Falcons liked Akeem Dent better but scouted Quan Sturdivant as well. I cannot assume Dent would have dropped this far but Sturdivant was available at this spot and would have made a good pick

#6-192)Virgil Green,TE-Nevada

I'm not sure if Gren would have fit in Falcons offense as I don't know if Green could carry out the blocking duties required. Apparently there were some concerns about a micro-fracture surgery on Green's knee from a few years ago and this is why he dropped. Assuming we got him this late, he would be worth the flier with his great talent.

#7-209)Andrew Jackson-OG Fresno State

Falcons did draft this guy. Mean, nasty offensive guard to develop and eventually replace Harvey Dahl in two years. needs to put on about 10 pounds of muscle.

#7-229)Cliff Matthews,DE-South Carolina

a "try hard" guy that can play special teams as well. Needs to bulk up about 10 lbs and could develop later into a pass-rushing option. Obviously the Falcons did draft this guy at same position.

#7-230)Chas Henry,P-Florida

has a booming leg and would easily outperform Michael Koenan for 1/4 of the money which frees up Falcons to get free agents at more needed positions.

Oh. My. God. My sides are hurting so much right now.

[Hashbrown3]

Once TD had a clear cut direction on what type of defensive and offensive schemes we were implementing, he was able to acquire a dozen or more seasoned scheme specific veterans in a single offseason and also draft several scheme specific players already contributing. Heck, even our 5th round rookie Tuggle2 almost got a sack in Monday game.

The argument that is was a mere few draft picks that tanked our 2013 and 2014 seasons because It wiped out our depth with no way to recover has been completely shot down in flames. It's indisputable.

In fact, trading a few picks in 2011 for the best WR in the NFL, who currently has the highest yards per game in NFL history, who has only played 4 seasons and is just now entering his prime, who was just voted best offensive player in the NFL this week, who ALREADY helped us get 10 yards from a Super Bowl in 2012, who will benefit us for years to come was a brilliant move. The notion that we went 10-22 those years because we couldn't bring in 3 depth players to replace the picks is foolish.

It was not a few draft picks traded that led to a 10-22 run in 2013- 2014, the problem was mainly a lack of direction. A lack of direction that negatively influenced player acquisition. ( again, just look at the player acquisition this offseason now that we had direction)

The fact is, TDs Julio Jones trade is looking more prescient as time goes by.

Thanks for the nice little visit Gazoo. Unfortunately there will be vengeful, vindictive, agenda driven folks who continue to lurk in the shaddows just praying for any morsel or tidbit they can use to Fk over TD. That's a fact jack.

Now TD deserves some serious scrutiny but there are so many other dynamics involved to just prey on the man incessantly. This trade should have been put to bed years ago. It's over and proven out. But mind you, if JJ gets hurt again...the troll idiots slither out of the tall weeds like the snake trolls they are... LOL. It's not even amusing anymore, it's boring now. And TBH, I am totally neutral with the guy when looking at the good, the bad and the ugly.

But as with any GM, it's always hot in the kitchen man.

[southernscot]

It took some stones to trade up 21 spots to #6 to take Julio and public opinion has been mixed ever since. However, there's no guarantee that those other draft picks pan out — just ask Browns fans — they bungle picks every season. What did CLE do with those picks? Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic and Brandon Weeden. None of them are still on the roster and none really had any meaningful impact.

TD and the Falcons have ended up with arguably the best wideout in the game — certainly one of the league's top 3. The bigger reasons for the slump in 2013 and 2014 was they whiffed on nearly all their picks in 2012 and the returns on 2013 and 2014 have been uneven — although Trufant looks like he could be a poor man's Richard Sherman in Quinn's system.

Furthermore, regardless of what you gave up, hard to argue the pick when the player becomes the best in the league at his position.

[Hashbrown3]

"It took some stones to trade up 21 spots"

[MoeBiden]

By,bu,but we could have had Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan. er, wait......we have BOTH Matt Ryan and Jake Long!

Troffed!!!!

^^^^biggest troll since mr. Right

[ukfalc]

I disagree.

The last 2 years have shown beyond question, that this team needed a significant investment in the offensive and defensive lines in 2011 and 2012. Of course, there are no guarantees that doing so would have yielded the results we hoped, but that was the right thing to do at the time.

The trade was a gamble. We invested heavily in a player who we hoped could put us over the top whilst we still had Abraham, Turner, Gonzalez. In doing so, we left ourselves without enough resources to rebuild the OL and find long term replacement for the 3 players I listed. The price for that gamble was paid in 2013 and 2014. It has taken us 4 years to get back to a position where we have a manageable list of needs and enough resources (cap space and picks) to have a realistic shot at filling them.

Was it a gamble worth taking, and were the last years a pride worth paying to get a great footballer? That is arguable. FWIW I don't have an issue with taking that gamble, as long as we are prepared to pay the price for it. What I do have an issue with, are fans who refuse to accept the price of that trade,, or who support the trade but then have the hypocrisy to blast TD for mot building a great OL and not finding high quality replacement for Abe, Turner and Gonzo with the very limited resources that we had left in 2011 and 2012 after the trade.

[slamee101]

I'm kind of over rubbing their noses in it at this stage. They were wrong, they know it, we know it, they'll likely never admit it but it is what it is.

[slamee101]

Trading the picks for Julio did not hurt the depth of this team. Missing on the picks we did have as well as FA busts hurt the depth more than the trade. Lack of player development hurt the depth also.

I'm just responding b/c this needs to be said again and again and again.

[Hashbrown3]

I disagree.

The last 2 years have shown beyond question, that this team needed a significant investment in the offensive and defensive lines in 2011 and 2012.

The trade was a gamble. We invested heavily in a player who we hoped could put us over the top whilst we still had Abraham, Turner, Gonzalez. In doing so, we left ourselves without enough resources to rebuild the OL and find long term replacement for the 3 players I listed. The price for that gamble was paid in 2013 and 2014. It has taken us 4 years to get back to a position where we have a manageable list of needs and enough resources (cap space and picks) to have a realistic shot at filling them.

Was it a gamble worth taking, and were the last years a pride worth paying to get a great footballer? That is arguable. FWIW I don't have an issue with taking that gamble, as long as we are prepared to pay the price for it. What I do have an issue with, are fans who refuse to accept the price of that trade,, or who support the trade but then have the hypocrisy to blast TD for mot building a great OL and not finding high quality replacement for Abe, Turner and Gonzo with the very limited resources that we had left in 2011 and 2012 after the trade.

No doubt TD left some meat on the table. But he wasn't acting alone when he did select linemen. Lady luck hasn't been shining on our linemen either on both sides of the ball as it pertains to injuries. He's GM so he gets the good cred and the bad press all at the same time. it comes with the territory as it rightly should. I think the way our organization has handled it, we have some nice checks and balances and much more communication to go after the right guys now and in the future so I am ok keeping TD for now.

[ukfalc]

No doubt TD left some meat on the table. But he wasn't acting alone when he did select linemen. Lady luck hasn't been shining on our linemen either on both sides of the ball as it pertains to injuries. He's GM so he gets the good cred and the bad press all at the same time. it comes with the territory as it rightly should. I think the way our organization has handled it, we have some nice checks and balances and much more communication to go after the right guys now and in the future so I am ok keeping TD for now.

I don't have a problem with TD. I am one of his biggest supports on this board, even though I diasgreed with the Julio Jones trade. I've always loved what Julio brings to the team in terms of character, work ethic and production, but am still not convinced that the price we paid was worth it.

I don't fault TD for not hitting on more o-linemen pick, because in my view the chances of finding the top drawer OL this boards expects and demands, with the picks we had left, were small. OT's drafted at the back end of the 3rd round (like Lamasr Holmes) are much more likely to bust our of be careers backups, than they are franchise LT's.

[Hashbrown3]

I don't have a problem with TD. I am one of his biggest supports on this board, even though I diasgreed with the Julio Jones trade. I've always loved what Julio brings to the team in terms of character, work ethic and production, but am still not convinced that the price we paid was worth it.

I don't fault TD for not hitting on more o-linemen pick, because in my view the chances of finding the top drawer OL this boards expects and demands, with the picks we had left, were small. OT's drafted at the back end of the 3rd round (like Lamasr Holmes) are much more likely to bust our of be careers backups, than they are franchise LT's.

Yeah, we see things alike for the most part. I tend to lean towards being more of a homer probably but the team does piss me off quite a bit and I am not shy about letting it rip... Cheers bro.

[Dukeduke211]

SMITTY AND TD ALONG WITH NOLAN AND KOETTER PICKED THE PLAYERS FOR THIS TEAM....

[g-dawg]

I disagree.

The last 2 years have shown beyond question, that this team needed a significant investment in the offensive and defensive lines in 2011 and 2012. Of course, there are no guarantees that doing so would have yielded the results we hoped, but that was the right thing to do at the time.

The trade was a gamble. We invested heavily in a player who we hoped could put us over the top whilst we still had Abraham, Turner, Gonzalez. In doing so, we left ourselves without enough resources to rebuild the OL and find long term replacement for the 3 players I listed. The price for that gamble was paid in 2013 and 2014. It has taken us 4 years to get back to a position where we have a manageable list of needs and enough resources (cap space and picks) to have a realistic shot at filling them.

Was it a gamble worth taking, and were the last years a pride worth paying to get a great footballer? That is arguable. FWIW I don't have an issue with taking that gamble, as long as we are prepared to pay the price for it. What I do have an issue with, are fans who refuse to accept the price of that trade,, or who support the trade but then have the hypocrisy to blast TD for mot building a great OL and not finding high quality replacement for Abe, Turner and Gonzo with the very limited resources that we had left in 2011 and 2012 after the trade.

The Falcons invested very heavily in the offensive line the very next year after drafting Julio - the VERY NEXT YEAR!!!

If Peter Konz and/or Lamar Holmes had been good players, the offensive line would have been just fine - Dimitroff invested 2nd and 3rd round picks - which are picks where you hope to land eventual starters for your team.

Dimitroff had also invested a supplemental 3rd round pick and a very early 4th round pick on Mike Johnson and Joe Hawley - other than the Cowboys, it is extremely rare to find a team that has invested three 1st round picks on an O-Line. Most teams just have one 1st rounder and then the rest is scattershot from rounds 2 through UDFAs.

We have invested PLENTY in the offensive line - we just keep picking the wrong players.

[Psychic Gibbon]

The Falcons invested very heavily in the offensive line the very next year after drafting Julio - the VERY NEXT YEAR!!!

If Peter Konz and/or Lamar Holmes had been good players, the offensive line would have been just fine - Dimitroff invested 2nd and 3rd round picks - which are picks where you hope to land eventual starters for your team.

Dimitroff had also invested a supplemental 3rd round pick and a very early 4th round pick on Mike Johnson and Joe Hawley - other than the Cowboys, it is extremely rare to find a team that has invested three 1st round picks on an O-Line. Most teams just have one 1st rounder and then the rest is scattershot from rounds 2 through UDFAs.

We have invested PLENTY in the offensive line - we just keep picking the wrong players.

Hawley was alright until his injury apparently sapped him. Johnson also unfortunately never got a chance due to all of his injuries. Konz and Holmes... well, unfortunately not everyone translates into the NFL. It doesn't help that the O-line scheme and coaching has been a chaotic mess over the past few years.

[g-dawg]

Hawley was alright until his injury apparently sapped him. Johnson also unfortunately never got a chance due to all of his injuries. Konz and Holmes... well, unfortunately not everyone translates into the NFL. It doesn't help that the O-line scheme and coaching has been a chaotic mess over the past few years.

but again, the investment was there - it is just that we got ZERO payoff on all that investment.

[kiwifalcon]

Thanks for the nice little visit Gazoo. Unfortunately there will be vengeful, vindictive, agenda driven folks who continue to lurk in the shaddows just praying for any morsel or tidbit they can use to Fk over TD. That's a fact jack.

Now TD deserves some serious scrutiny but there are so many other dynamics involved to just prey on the man incessantly. This trade should have been put to bed years ago. It's over and proven out. But mind you, if JJ gets hurt again...the troll idiots slither out of the tall weeds like the snake trolls they are... LOL. It's not even amusing anymore, it's boring now. And TBH, I am totally neutral with the guy when looking at the good, the bad and the ugly.

But as with any GM, it's always hot in the kitchen man.

The thing that gets me is that alot of these idiots were questioning if we should pay #11 this off season they wanted to come up with STUPID idea's of tagging this guy so they could nickel & dime him instead of th obvious option of signing and locking him up long term.

Stupidity has reigned over this discussion he has been showing his talents for 5 years now and for some fans to come out and have doubts of resigning this guy long term are just straight up IDIOTS.

[Hashbrown3]

The thing that gets me is that alot of these idiots were questioning if we should pay #11 this off season they wanted to come up with STUPID idea's of tagging this guy so they could nickel & dime him instead of th obvious option of signing and locking him up long term.

Stupidity has reigned over this discussion he has been showing his talents for 5 years now and for some fans to come out and have doubts of resigning this guy long term are just straight up IDIOTS.

The only legit reason to consider the tag from the non-hater side of things would be concern over his foot. But there were many who were screaming tag only because they think we needed to save the money short term rather than spring for it now. You know, the "no shiny hood ornament should ever be paid like this" type of feeling. But if you don't sew the guy up now, it costs you more down the line right?

If we're honest, without Hoo, we don't win that game against Philly. This dude is HOF special. I saw enough when he took Patrick Peterson to the woodshed and single handedly made the GB defense look like school children.

When you can have that much effect on a game from the standpoint of being so effective that you consume an entire team's gameplan against you, it opens doors all over the field for the rest of our weapons.

[kiwifalcon]

The only legit reason to consider the tag from the non-hater side of things would be concern over his foot. But there were many who were screaming tag only because they think we needed to save the money short term rather than spring for it now. You know, the "no shiny hood ornament should ever be paid like this" type of feeling. But if you don't sew the guy up now, it costs you more down the line right?

If we're honest, without Hoo, we don't win that game against Philly. This dude is HOF special. I saw enough when he took Patrick Peterson to the woodshed and single handedly made the GB defense look like school children.

TBH the injury would'nt have detered me from signing him long term.For me Julio's talent surpasses any of that.He plays physical so injury is always going to be an issue there just because he plays full throttle.

I mean seeing him beat up on Maxwell to me was a TKO.After watching him dominate Petersen like you mention and further back Namnadi and following performances for me it was just a no brainer not even a discussion but I still don't understand of someof our fans mindsetsin fact it blew me away.

Jerry Rice mentioned 3 years ago that Julio would be the next great WRer.

Dieon Sanders had a good interview with #11 about showing how far #11 had come in a short time by showing 3 different releases running the same route showing not only was Julio a load physically but also showed he mentally was right there also and we all know about his work ethic.

[RookieBird]

As many screwed up draft picks or deals since then I can't judge that trade yet. But if the Falcons don't get a Super Bowl win soon, no one can argue for the benefit of that deal. If the ultimate goal with any draft or Free Agent deal is to make your team not only a play off contender but a Super Bowl winner it has yet to pan out for the Falcons. Yet to be fair, it's a waste of time looking back and say "what might have been if". It is also a waste of time to celebrate a receiver after just one game in a 15 game season. Let's see what's happening in January.

[pzummo]

I really liked the comparison to the Patriots as to why we shouldn't have done the trade. Let's see how the Pats did with the picks we gave up.

We got Julio Jones, All Pro and 2 time Pro Bowl WR, arguably the best WR in the league.

2011 1st round pick, Nate Solder - He's a starter, rated the #44 OT last season. Solid starter, no Pro Bowls or All Pros. Pats selected him 10 spots higher than the pick we gave up, so this is a very generous comparison for the Pats.

2011 2nd round pick, Ras-I Dowling - I think he's out of the league, didn't last 2 full seasons in New England. Picked 26 spots ahead of the 2nd we gave up.

2011 3rd round pick, Ryan Mallett - Their 5th rounder was well after our pick, so I am being generous by giving them earlier picks on the ones that don't match up. He's not on their team anymore. Not a starter, and never was a contributor for New England. This was 50 picks higher than the one we gave up.

2012 1st round pick, Chandler Jones - Good pick, should've gone to 1 Pro Bowl but actually hasn't been to any. He's also been injured a lot. This was the closest to our pick, only 1 pick earlier in the first round than what we gave up.

2012 3rd round pick, Jake Bequette - They didn't have a 4th, so again had to count their pick from a full round earlier. This guy didn't last 2 seasons, out of the league. He was 28 picks earlier than the one we gave up.

So would you trade Julio Jones for Nate Solder, Ryan Mallett, and Chandler Jones? The other 2 guys are out of the league. Mallett is actually on Houston, but again, trying to be as generous as possible comparing New England's picks that were as close to ours without actually being after the one's we gave up. All together for this comparison, New England's picks were collectively 115 picks earlier than the one's we gave up. Would you rather have all 5 of New England's picks or the one Julio pick?!?

[Knight of God]

Julio was my favorite player in that draft. I am glad to have him and love watching him. To say his "haters" were wrong though is kind of off. Some have different ideas and although we have Quinn to now mask a lot of the issues, the issues have been there for a while.

The "haters" are only wrong in one respect. Believing TD would have used the picks better than they were used.

[Carl927]

Julio is a rare, once-in-a-decade talent - any NFL coach would agree in a second. Falcons football is far more exciting when the man is out there doing his thing and something electric could happen at any second. He's a game changer.

Rings would be awesome, but the thrill factor alone is enough to sell seats and swag, and justify the deal.

[stizz]

How are the "haters" wrong? No one denied that JJ was a great player. What the "haters" hated, was that getting that player would sacrifice the overall quality of the team.

So far the "haters" are correct. Do you think 4-12 and 6-10 the last 2 years is worth ANY player let alone JJ?

Since you're talking about the past, why didn't you bring up when Julio almost single handedly got us to the super bowl against the top defense in the NFL?

[stizz]

How are the "haters" wrong? No one denied that JJ was a great player. What the "haters" hated, was that getting that player would sacrifice the overall quality of the team.

So far the "haters" are correct. Do you think 4-12 and 6-10 the last 2 years is worth ANY player let alone JJ?

Since you're talking about the past, why didn't you bring up when Julio almost single handedly got us to the super bowl against the top defense in the NFL?