atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Thats the funny part about all this. I dont care if it was backups or starters, we all saw what they did when they came out on that first series and ran downhill on the Ravens. I made a point of this in my other thread about the decision to hire Shanahan was going AGAINST the abilities of the resources the Falcons already had.For some reason, when Stone starts at center, the offensive line transforms into a all pro unit. Thats WITHOUT the addition of Levitre. You flank Stone with Levitre and Asomough, with Matthews and Schraeder at the tackles, and run DOWN HILL, suddenly, that offensive line is one of the better units in the league.Whats REALLY weird about Quinn's decision to bring Shanahan's zone blocking scheme to the Falcons ( i know, i heard that it gave his Seattle unit fits), is the fact that the Falcon's defensive line philosophy is totally opposite. Smith/Nolan ran a ZONE TYPE defensive line philosophy where they had the defenders reading two gaps. This slowed them down and made them finesse. Quinn and Cox have them reading ONE gap and attack. Thats EXACTLY what the Falcons offensive line did on that opening series against the Ravens. They ditched the finesse zone scheme where they had to all take a step in the direction of the play and READ their zones, and just went straight AHEAD and attacked ONE point.I say ditch the zone scheme and put your resources in the BEST POSITION TO WIN...........Thats what winning coaches do, they fit the schemes to their players ( see belicheat up in New England). Edited September 5, 2015 by atlking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Chief Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Doubt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdz4i Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 ain t gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawg4876 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 agree it wont happen, Im not a huge fan of the shanahans but we shall see what this yr brings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDaveG Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 You realize you can run downhill in a zone blocking scheme, right? You realize that's what we did, right? IIRC, Coleman's first run was an inside zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbigdog35 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJmusic Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 All Pro?? LMAOOOOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 You realize you can run downhill in a zone blocking scheme, right?You realize that's what we did, right? IIRC, Coleman's first run was an inside zone.Describe the play for me. If they CAN do that, then thats GOOD. This isnt about me being right or wrong, this is about analyzing what would be the best plan of attack on that offensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 All Pro?? LMAOOOOO!!!compared to what they BEEN DOING, it WOULD be all pro........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Tzu 7 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 You started off with how the Falcons 1st unit ran 'downhill' against the Ravens 2nd unit in the 4th preseason game.I stopped taking you seriously there.Why not talk about how Coleman is going to break 2000 yards because of his performance against the Ravens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antdaniels123 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Dude that was zone we ran against the Ravens I think people don't really understand what "zone" means it's basically the lineman attack an area toward the play side. Seattle runs a "zone" scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMERO Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 keep dreaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDaveG Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Describe the play for me. If they CAN do that, then thats GOOD. This isnt about me being right or wrong, this is about analyzing what would be the best plan of attack on that offensive line. I deleted the game from the DVR so I can't go back and pull it exactly, but if my memory is correct it was to the right side of the line inside the tackle. It's the one I complained he got stopped by an arm tackle if memory serves (he still had a nice gain). They were still zone blocking the entire game, though, so really just pick any play. They did fewer stretch plays for that first series, and ran more inside zone and Coleman bounced out a couple for good gains. They were not man blocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain2749 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 What worries me about Shanahan's scheme is his emphasis on the outside zone run. I think we can do fine with inside zone runs and the occasional power run, which has to be in the playbook. Just from observation on the traditional, two tight end, outside zone run, it is a play where it is difficult to consistently get great yardage. It looks like either a -2 to 2 yard play that can occasionally hit the secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papachaz Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 All Pro?? LMAOOOOO!!!op needs to stop mixing stuff before he smokes it, that can really have bad effects on a man's two or three brain cells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root down Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 It's clear you don't have an understanding of what this zone blocking scheme is. I used to feel the same way about zone blocking, but read a series of great articles by a Seahawks writer that explained in detail the concepts and execution the Oline is doing. I posted links some weeks ago to the articlesThe major reason the line was terrible running against Miami was missed assignments. On the opening series alone the C Pearson missed two basic reads on what he was supposed to do. Another play to the right, the RT Schrader went to double the DE w/ the TE, when the way the DE was lined up and where the DE went post snap(to the outside). The RT should have gone to the 2nd level and taken the OLB. Instead the gate was left wide open and the OLB blew up the run in the backfield.Against the Ravens the Falcons still ran zone concepts. The oline just worked together better and made the correct reads. Plus stone understands the scheme and is a good Center. Those downhill runs you like we're zone runs. The first crease just happened to form inside and the RB read it and hit it. Also there are outside and inside zone plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logs the wantabe QB Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think everyone thinks GT when the hear zone blocking. A lot of teams use it I've seen the patriots, packers, Seahawks and ravens use it and have been fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I deleted the game from the DVR so I can't go back and pull it exactly, but if my memory is correct it was to the right side of the line inside the tackle. It's the one I complained he got stopped by an arm tackle if memory serves (he still had a nice gain).They were still zone blocking the entire game, though, so really just pick any play. They did fewer stretch plays for that first series, and ran more inside zone and Coleman bounced out a couple for good gains. They were not man blocking.Ok, Now, was the design of the blocking in that play SIMPLER than the stretch zones? From the way you describe it, seems like it is. Thats the point. Keep it simple and ATTACK a point. Im pretty sure that if the line had TIME to adjust with the RIGHT players, the zone scheme works, because ive seen it work. My point is the Falcons had players who were meant for a different scheme, and are being forced to learn a new scheme on the fly with the limited contact practices they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigerfan Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Remember this is basically the scheme we ran when we were one of the top rushing teams from 04 to 06. I have no problem with it as Shannys teams have always been one of the better rushing teams as well. What many are forgetting is we just finished the pre-season with a complete change in coaching and scheme. You cant expect us to look perfect given that backdrop. We should see much progress once we are a month into the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) It's clear you don't have an understanding of what this zone blocking scheme is. I used to feel the same way about zone blocking, but read a series of great articles by a Seahawks writer that explained in detail the concepts and execution the Oline is doing. I posted links some weeks ago to the articlesThe major reason the line was terrible running against Miami was missed assignments. On the opening series alone the C Pearson missed two basic reads on what he was supposed to do. Another play to the right, the RT Schrader went to double the DE w/ the TE, when the way the DE was lined up and where the DE went post snap(to the outside). The RT should have gone to the 2nd level and taken the OLB. Instead the gate was left wide open and the OLB blew up the run in the backfield.Against the Ravens the Falcons still ran zone concepts. The oline just worked together better and made the correct reads. Plus stone understands the scheme and is a good Center. Those downhill runs you like we're zone runs. The first crease just happened to form inside and the RB read it and hit it. Also there are outside and inside zone plays.No. I know EXACTLY what a zone blocking scheme is. In fact, i have posted diagrams of it. Thats the reason i made this post. Look, for the hundredth time. its not that the zone blocking is a BAD scheme. Its NOT. Im pointing out the fact that the Falcons are forcing their players into a scheme, in which they werent DRAFTED for. They even now have Asomough, who was a top guard in free agency, on the bench. Thats like LOSING a draft pick. Stone at guard. Really? Matthews wasnt zone blocking at Texas A&M. Thats your TOP draft pick, first round. You are forcing your RESOURCES into something new. Thats the POINT of my comments about this scheme.Quinn couldve used that Levitre move on defense. Its management of resources. This year shouldve been ALL about the defense. Tweak the offensive line. Thats all they had to do THIS year. Edited September 5, 2015 by atlking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putnam6 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 After years and years of watching the Falcons always experience growing pains when they implement a new offense or defense the cynical side of me agrees. H back, Red Gun, the previous incarnation with Alex Gibbs all had its phase of yea but wait till we get all the right personel here it will be great, then you would wait 3 years and they would never get the right personel in LOL. It's here I'd imagine Shanahan has a couple of years to install it. can't imagine a GM that would bring him in not knowing A what system he is going to want to run and B if the current team had players that could run it. Not to mention the current GM hasn't exactly shown a proclivity for the nuances of an offensive line in the NFL at all. But it is easier to find these lighter more atheletic type OL than a bunch of road graders, can't really argue the success of the system either lots of teams have ran it with no issues.I do think it's great for Ryan and he will excel in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDaveG Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Ok, Now, was the design of the blocking in that play SIMPLER than the stretch zones? From the way you describe it, seems like it is. Thats the point. Keep it simple and ATTACK a point. Im pretty sure that if the line had TIME to adjust with the RIGHT players, the zone scheme works, because ive seen it work. My point is the Falcons had players who were meant for a different scheme, and are being forced to learn a new scheme on the fly with the limited contact practices they have.Not really. As root down said, it's more that the inside hole opened. In the zone read scheme, you have the RB running behind the o-line looking for a crease. When the crease opens, he puts his foot in the dirt and goes straight downhill. So when it opens early, you hit it then, and when it opens late you hit it late. The point is the RB isn't running to a gap like the more old school systems, but he's reading the blocking and the defense's response and when he sees the hole open he hits it.I don't think our players are meant for a man blocking scheme, either. Even Asamoah, who everyone says that about, has played in a ZBS before. Matthews is tailor made for it. Chester is too. Really the only ones who were not were Blaylock and Harland Gunn. They're both gone.The reality is most people don't understand what zone blocking is. They don't know it when they see it. They think it's some sort of gimmicky system that looks like college ball, when the reality is a lot of teams who run with power and authority use it. Which is cool -- you're not the first person to confuse the two. As someone else said earlier, Seattle runs a ZBS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiker Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Refer to the last several seasons on 3 and 1...then punt!!Obviously the power scheme did not work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root down Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Describe the play for me. If they CAN do that, then thats GOOD. This isnt about me being right or wrong, this is about analyzing what would be the best plan of attack on that offensive line.This from memory, but I was specifically watching the center guards combo on those opening series. The C and G doubled the DT, there was not a DT lined up over the guard. The de was lined up over the LT. The guard then released to get the closest LBer in that zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlking Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 This from memory, but I was specifically watching the center guards combo on those opening series. The C and G doubled the DT, there was not a DT lined up over the guard. The de was lined up over the LT. The guard then released to get the closest LBer in that zone.Was the play ran from the left side of the Falcons line? Im trying to diagram this on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.