Interesting Development For Falcons V. Eagles: Qb's Knees Are Fair Game On Read Option

[CrimsonFalcon]

there have been a lot of posts about this very thing the last couple of years with us playing scam, when freeman was with the sucs, when we had to play rg3, wilson and kap all in the same year.

It's the one thing that worries me about Matt and having more 'roll outs' in the play book, once they're outside the pocket they're fair game, esp if they've faked a hand off first

If Matt rolls out, he is going to pass 99.9999999999999999999% of the time. He will be protected by the standard QB rules.

[bigbabygrady]

Don't buy it dude.

It's a preseason game against a dude with a clear history of injury. The ball was well out and Suggs went well low. His post-game comments confirm the intent, IMO.

I DON'T think it should have been penalized. And I'm fine with the "make them pay" philosophy. But diving at a dude's knees in the preseason and then dropping a "that'll teach him" comment afterward is dirty pool. Hit a dude at the waist if you want. But that hit on that guy in that game? Nahhh.

I think Suggs' point was valid though. Any HC or OC designing their offense around read option is putting their QB at risk, so if they want to complain about their QB taking hits, they should take some of the blame themselves for endangering him. same with calling a play with your receiver going across the middle when he's had a history of concussions. If they schemed differently to protect their players, they would reduce their chance of injury. it's the QB's team's responsibility to protect him, not the opposing defense's responsibility

[Tuggle'2]

I think Suggs' point was valid though. Any HC or OC designing their offense around read option is putting their QB at risk, so if they want to complain about their QB taking hits, they should take some of the blame themselves for endangering him. same with calling a play with your receiver going across the middle when he's had a history of concussions. If they schemed differently to protect their players, they would reduce their chance of injury. it's the QB's team's responsibility to protect him, not the opposing defense's responsibility

I pretty much agree with both of you. I say, yes. Punish the QB if they do it, but you can punish him without purposely going for his knees.

[TheFatboi]

Don't buy it dude.

It's a preseason game against a dude with a clear history of injury. The ball was well out and Suggs went well low. His post-game comments confirm the intent, IMO.

I DON'T think it should have been penalized. And I'm fine with the "make them pay" philosophy. But diving at a dude's knees in the preseason and then dropping a "that'll teach him" comment afterward is dirty pool. Hit a dude at the waist if you want. But that hit on that guy in that game? Nahhh.

It wasn't well out. You know as well as I do it moves much faster than it does on tv. I watched that play a few times. Who cares if you've had knee problems. Don't play if you're worried about your knees. Especially coming on a free release. He wasn't blocked so there was no way the ball was long gone. Clean play from my perspective. This is football man. Not flag. Suggs is a hard relentless player but not a dirty player. Suggs didn't know if the handoff was even made. If you watch the play you can't see the exchange from his perspective. He doesn't know if he had the ball or not. It's deemed legal so really this discussion is moot. If I'm rushing and can't see the exchange in not pulling up if I don't know. I hope the Falcons go hard like that when we play a read team. PLUS they are getting the refs on the same page with that play. The league is even saying what Suggs dis is legal and not dirty. He was deemed a runner dude

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

I think Suggs' point was valid though. Any HC or OC designing their offense around read option is putting their QB at risk, so if they want to complain about their QB taking hits, they should take some of the blame themselves for endangering him. same with calling a play with your receiver going across the middle when he's had a history of concussions. If they schemed differently to protect their players, they would reduce their chance of injury. it's the QB's team's responsibility to protect him, not the opposing defense's responsibility

I get that. And in the regular season, I'd be less "anti-hit" than in this situation.

In this situation, I think Suggs' comments indicate intent to take a shot at Bradford to "prove a point." In a preseason game I think that's unnecessary and ******.

[TheFatboi]

I pretty much agree with both of you. I say, yes. Punish the QB if they do it, but you can punish him without purposely going for his knees.

I hear you tuggle but at full speed and trying to get to the qb and not knowing where the ball is its hard to do that. PLUS he's deemed a runner in that instance. He's no different than a rb and rb's get tackled by the legs all the time. I agree with it. It wasn't dirty and college coaches need to think about exposing his qb to that punishment in the nfl. Bradford better get super athletic or demand a trade to a traditional nfl offense. Lol

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

It wasn't well out. You know as well as I do it moves much faster than it does on tv. I watched that play a few times. Who cares if you've had knee problems. Don't play if you're worried about your knees. Especially coming on a free release. He wasn't blocked so there was no way the ball was long gone. Clean play from my perspective. This is football man. Not flag. Suggs is a hard relentless player but a dirty player. Suggs didn't know if the handoff was even made. If you watch the play you can't see the exchange from his perspective. He doesn't know if he had the ball or not. It's deemed legal so really this discussion is moot. If I'm rushing and can't see the exchange in not pulling up if I don't know. I hope the Falcons go hard like that when we play a read team. PLUS they are getting the refs on the same page with that play. The league is even saying what Suggs dis is legal and not dirty. He was deemed a runner dude

Like I said, I don't think it was an "illegal" play. I do think "dirty" and "illegal" aren't always one in the same.

He should not have been penalized. But it's still a ****** thing to do in the situation. And what he said afterward combined with the "go low" shot strongly suggests he was gunning for the knee. Especially given his history of doing **** like this.

A lot of dudes play football super physical at an ultra high level without gunning for people's knees. So the "it's football" thing doesnt work for me. I'm not saying kick him out of the league or anything. Just that it was a bush league play IMO.

[TheFatboi]

Don't buy it dude.

It's a preseason game against a dude with a clear history of injury. The ball was well out and Suggs went well low. His post-game comments confirm the intent, IMO.

I DON'T think it should have been penalized. And I'm fine with the "make them pay" philosophy. But diving at a dude's knees in the preseason and then dropping a "that'll teach him" comment afterward is dirty pool. Hit a dude at the waist if you want. But that hit on that guy in that game? Nahhh.

Dude, it's moving too fast for all that. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Brady never got hurt. That's where all this qb knees sh*t comes from and THAT wasn't even a read option play. If your qb is deemed a runner his legs become part of it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-training-camps/0ap3000000515198/Blandino-Suggs-hit-was-not-a-foul

[TheFatboi]

Like I said, I don't think it was an "illegal" play. I do think "dirty" and "illegal" aren't always one in the same.

He should not have been penalized. But it's still a ****** thing to do in the situation. And what he said afterward combined with the "go low" shot strongly suggests he was gunning for the knee. Especially given his history of doing **** like this.

A lot of dudes play football super physical at an ultra high level without gunning for people's knees. So the "it's football" thing doesnt work for me. I'm not saying kick him out of the league or anything. Just that it was a bush league play IMO.

I hear you. I just dont think it's shady per rules. If he's a runner his legs are legal. A player can get away from you trying to tackle his waist but NOBODY is running without their legs. He didn't even hit his knees. He hit his shin area. I just dont think that's dirty. Even if that was Matt Ryan. And for the record he didn't "gun" for his knees. He made a tackle. It wasn't even a hard hit.

[TheFatboi]

The knees wasn't even the issue with the play. The refs just thought it was a late hit. BRADFORD was the one that made a stink about his bad knees. The call was late hit. Not hitting below the knees so even the REFS didn't think it was shady. Just late, and they were wrong about that too per the league rules.

[abcranford2]

Like I said, I don't think it was an "illegal" play. I do think "dirty" and "illegal" aren't always one in the same.

He should not have been penalized. But it's still a ****** thing to do in the situation. And what he said afterward combined with the "go low" shot strongly suggests he was gunning for the knee. Especially given his history of doing **** like this.

A lot of dudes play football super physical at an ultra high level without gunning for people's knees. So the "it's football" thing doesnt work for me. I'm not saying kick him out of the league or anything. Just that it was a bush league play IMO.

It was necessary because it got people talking about it. Refs will not be likely to throw a flag mainly because of this one play

[sonnyjim]

The 'outside the pocket' rule notwithstanding I've always felt that a draw play should always end with a blind side hit.

"But officer he tricked me into thinking he was about to launch a pass!

[JC Falcon]

The "passer's knees offlimits" actually is a WRITTEN rule. Which is the point of the league clarifying that hit was not a penalty because Bradford wasn't passing. They made the rule you can't hit around the knees on QBs as they are passing after Brady got blasted - (even though Carson Palmer got blasted by Steelers a season or two earlier and the NFL said, "tough luck, Bengal.")

[TheFatboi]

The "passer's knees offlimits" actually is a WRITTEN rule. Which is the point of the league clarifying that hit was not a penalty because Bradford wasn't passing. They made the rule you can't hit around the knees on QBs as they are passing after Brady got blasted - (even though Carson Palmer got blasted by Steelers a season or two earlier and the NFL said, "tough luck, Bengal.")

Exactly!! How can that be a dirty play. It's within the rules and it's not malicious. It's just a player knowing the nfl rule book and playing hard. Bradford needs to rethink playing for Chip Kelly because he's gonna be exposed to those type of hits all the time. That particular play Bradford basically became a runner. And runners get tackled by the legs all the time. What's next? Stop tackling running backs by their legs? I hate that the nfl is becoming b*tchy on some fronts as well as the fans. Hardcore nfl fans never were this soft. I'm all for player safety because I played. I never have and never will like "dirty" players. Suggs is a ferocious player but not dirty. Just like Suh. He's ferocious but not dirty. Qb's are football players too. Had that been Bradford instead of Brady that passer rule would t have even been established.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

I hear you. I just dont think it's shady per rules. If he's a runner his legs are legal. A player can get away from you trying to tackle his waist but NOBODY is running without their legs. He didn't even hit his knees. He hit his shin area. I just dont think that's dirty. Even if that was Matt Ryan. And for the record he didn't "gun" for his knees. He made a tackle. It wasn't even a hard hit.

See, I think Peters called this **** straight up. I don't think that was a "too fast" situation. I think its more likely that Suggs saw the play, recognized that it was read option and thought "i'm going to take my shot." I think he was waiting for it. And I dont think there was really a reasonable reason to go low there. And he affirmatively went low...watch his head duck. That's unnecessary IMO.

He took a low shot on Blount last year as well. If you want to say that's on the right side of "ferocious" rather than dirty, have at it. I think its on the wrong side of the line. We disagree. If you think it's "soft" that's fine. I don't think it's "soft" I think it's honest. Unfortunately, I can't un-read/un-hear the stuff I've read/heard over the last 4 or 5 years. I love football very much but I'm not capable of ignoring the horror stories and the long-term questions that are staring the game in the face. So when I see plays like this that I think involve a certain level of maliciousness that isn't necessary, it makes me shake my head. There's enough violence inherent in the game that this stuff should be frowned upon. If that's soft, so be it.

[Door Gunner]

From what Chip said it wasn't a read option but rather just a hand off out of the shot gun. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles

Legal or not, no one will ever convince me Suggs wasn't trying to end Bradford's career. That hit was Dirty.

[TheFatboi]

From what Chip said it wasn't a read option but rather just a hand off out of the shot gun. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles

Legal or not, no one will ever convince me Suggs wasn't trying to end Bradford's career. That hit was Dirty.

That wasn't even a hard hit. If he seriously wanted to end Bradfords career he could have. Nobody around the league is saying it was dirty or malicious. I'm only seeing that on this board and from fans. That doesn't even look like a malicious hit. He really could've plowed him if he chose. 100% direct hit to the knees. Instead he lead with his shoulders as they are taught to do. As much as I've seen Matt Ryan get tackled by his legs and didn't cry foul this is no different. I know what a malicious hit looks like. That wasn't it.

I seriously don't think players are really trying to "end a career". But they do intend to play hard and with mean intentions meaning to inflict pain but not to blatantly end a career. They all have to think about that. Guys have gone at Suggs knees on cut blocks before. It wasn't to end his career tho. If feel if it's getting to the point where you can't just be a nasty football player then the soft guys should get out of the game. Brett Favre never complained about hard playing guys. He'd get up, tell em good hit, get in their face a little bit and proceed to kill them the next play. THATS a football player.

[youngbloodz]

This is what the Ravens did to the Niners in the Super Bowl. They hit Kaep every time they ran the read option it seemed

[Black Francis]

I've always said that teams should be straight up punishing the QBs every single time regardless. Make them freaking pay for it.

Same here.

[TheFatboi]

This is what the Ravens did to the Niners in the Super Bowl. They hit Kaep every time they ran the read option it seemed

Football 101. If the qb puts on pads and a helmet he's a football player like the other 21 guys on the field. I was an offensive player with a defensive mindset. Like Turner was or Walter Payton, Or Earl Campbell. I just don't think it's wrong to play with vicious intent. It's how the game was intended. But you can play viciously without playing malicious.

[TheFatboi]

Same here.

Exactly. It's how the game was meant to be played!

[youngbloodz]

Football 101. If the qb puts on pads and a helmet he's a football player like the other 21 guys on the field. I was an offensive player with a defensive mindset. Like Turner was or Walter Payton, Or Earl Campbell. I just don't think it's wrong to play with vicious intent. It's how the game was intended. But you can play viciously without playing malicious.

that's how I feel. I use to love corner blitzes and hit the QB.

[TheFatboi]

that's how I feel. I use to love corner blitzes and hit the QB.

Bro when Vick was in Atl EVERYBODY was trying to get him out the game. Brady gets hurt and there's a rule in place for the passer. Vick was a runner and they treated him as such. The read option opens a qb up as a runner. Treat him as such. H3ll I hope the Falcons do the same thing to read option qb 's. Punish his @ss. Football NEVER stopped being about inflicting pain. They set rules to protect the players and they inflict pain within the rules of player safety. What Suggs did is within the rules of player safety on a qb that has an OPTION. They didn't even call hitting a player at the knees. The call was late hit.

[TheFatboi]

that's how I feel. I use to love corner blitzes and hit the QB.

Yes. That was your opportunity to punish the qb.

[Dirtybird56]

Thanks Suggs. NFL made this clear now so refs won't be throwing the flag. Can't imagine Bradford's going to want to run the read option knowing that he's allowed to get hit in his knees like that