Mark Richt Under Fire For Raising Money For Christian Ministry

[Carter]

This is pretty ridiculous.

http://m.onlineathens.com/mobile/2015-08-20/group-accuses-mark-richt-using-public-office-raise-money-christian-ministry#article=103949102D81D33347294709C45A45A3BA82E

[95Dawg]

Smh. Don't know what to say to that. How much more are they going to go after?

[iQue]

"Public office"...Stretch Armstrong would proud of this reach

[JayOzOne]

There was a deacon at my church who coached a local high school team. He actually had a pretty good record in the 10+ years that he held the position. He was reprimanded for leading the team prayer even though only the players who wanted to participate joined in. Then, he was reprimanded for being in the team prayer circle, even though he didn't pray. When they came at him for being in the room when they prayed, he tendered his resignation on principle. I understand the concern of people who don't want their kids coerced into another person's religion, but if there is no coercion, why do administrators insist on discouraging those who still want to do it?

[Carter]

There was a deacon at my church who coached a local high school team. He actually had a pretty good record in the 10+ years that he held the position. He was reprimanded for leading the team prayer even though only the players who wanted to participate joined in. Then, he was reprimanded for being in the team prayer circle, even though he didn't pray. When they came at him for being in the room when they prayed, he tendered his resignation on principle. I understand the concern of people who don't want their kids coerced into another person's religion, but if there is no coercion, why do administrators insist on discouraging those who still want to do it?

Because there is no end to the stupidity of people being offended in this country.

[Dawggone]

Because there is no end to the stupidity of people being offended in this country.

The tolerance and acceptance train has oversteered by quite a ways.

[FalconsAirMiles]

Players feel pressured to attend and participate in these "voluntary" religious activities as to not feel left out or to be portrayed as not part of the team. Not to mention these coaches used public university facilities and paid these religious chaplains with money from the schools to proselytizes. It unconstitutional and violates the religious rights of the players because these coaches, who are paid employees of public entities, are using their authority to push their religion on to others.

Edited August 22, 2015 by FalconsAirMiles

[Porter Osborne Jr]

Players feel pressured to attend and participate in these "voluntary" religious activities as to not feel left out or to be portrayed as not part of the team. Not to mention these coaches used public university facilities and paid these religious chaplains with money from the schools to proselytizes. It unconstitutional and violates the religious rights of the players because these coaches, who are paid employees of public entities, are using their authority to push their religion on to others.

As a coach for 15+ years, the part about being pressured is not true. I see kids not attent devotion when they don't want to be a part of it.

[FalconsAirMiles]

As a coach for 15+ years, the part about being pressured is not true. I see kids not attend devotion when they don't want to be a part of it.

They may not feel pressured in your case, but do not mean it does not happen especially at these power football schools where the competition is stiff. The kids would feel pressured to get into the coaches good graces as to gain an advantage to get playing time and make the team. Whether the students athletes feel pressured or not is one issue, the coaches using school facilities, favors, and money to endorse a religion is not legal.

[Porter Osborne Jr]

I would imagine if religion wasn't their thing or if they didn't want to be bothered with it they would have noticed how things are on their recruiting trips and sign elsewhere.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Porter Osborne Jr

[FalconsAirMiles]

I would imagine if religion wasn't their thing or if they didn't want to be bothered with it they would have noticed how things are on their recruiting trips and sign elsewhere.

Why should a player options be limited based on his faith? That eliminates a lot of schools in the south.

[SacFalcFan]

"Public office"...Stretch Armstrong would proud of this reach

yep very true.. it's beyond ridiculous. glad we have the football season about to start so this other nonsense is ignored.

[Carter]

Why should a player options be limited based on his faith? That eliminates a lot of schools in the south.

They are not limited and they are not pressured. You assume a lot.

[Porter Osborne Jr]

Why should a player options be limited based on his faith? That eliminates a lot of schools in the south.

If the rest of the team wants to be that way then they aren't going to fit in anyways.

And they have hundreds of options. If they don't want that in their life they can go to another school.

[Carter]

The tolerance and acceptance train has oversteered by quite a ways.

Yeah... to the point of intolerance of anyone who doesn't tolerate their way lol. Seems like too many are intolerant of anything that doesn't fit their idea of how our country should be. Whether it's conservatives or progressives. Anything tax dollars touch is subject to endless scrutiny; which in itself isn't a bad thing, but some people take it too far. Some seem like they just want to make Christians in particular miserable by protesting any public display of faith, which isn't even the intention of the whole separation of church and state thing in our constitution. The object was to keep this country from falling into the ways many European countries did by allowing the Roman Catholic church to be the absolute authority.

A coach leading a voluntary religious activity is harmless up until the point there is any kind of proof that non-participants are discriminated against... which there is none here.

[FalconsAirMiles]

They are not limited and they are not pressured. You assume a lot.

If the rest of the team wants to be that way then they aren't going to fit in anyways.

And they have hundreds of options. If they don't want that in their life they can go to another school.

Arian Foster felt pressured into going to "voluntary" Sunday church service for team building exercises when he was at Tennessee and faced negative consequences when he asked to be excused. You assume because players have not come out and spoken out about it there is no problem exist. They are limited because they would have to sit out a year if they want to transfer because they dont like how the coach indirectly directly forces their religion on to them.

The separation of church and football -- not to mention church and public education -- blurred at Tennessee, Foster says. Coaches, led by head coach Phil Fulmer, scheduled trips to Sunday church services as team-building exercises. Foster asked to be excused. He was denied. (The school confirmed that these team-building exercises to churches took place.) Word spread: Foster was arrogant, selfish, difficult to coach. "They just thought I was being a rebel and didn't want to participate in the team activities," Foster says.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13369076/houston-texans-arian-foster-goes-public-not-believing-god

Let's have atheist chaplains, Muslim chaplain, Satanist chaplains, etc we will see how that goes over with people crying they are the victim of religious "prosecution." As it stands there is only Christian chaplains at these major schools.

Edited August 23, 2015 by FalconsAirMiles

[FalconsAirMiles]

Yeah... to the point of intolerance of anyone who doesn't tolerate their way lol. Seems like too many are intolerant of anything that doesn't fit their idea of how our country should be. Whether it's conservatives or progressives. Anything tax dollars touch is subject to endless scrutiny; which in itself isn't a bad thing, but some people take it too far. Some seem like they just want to make Christians in particular miserable by protesting any public display of faith, which isn't even the intention of the whole separation of church and state thing in our constitution. The object was to keep this country from falling into the ways many European countries did by allowing the Roman Catholic church to be the absolute authority.

Miserable because they have the obey the laws of the land like everyone else and do not get extra rights because of their faith. Yes, by having a separation of church and state.

"[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world"—Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

A coach leading a voluntary religious activity is harmless up until the point there is any kind of proof that non-participants are discriminated against... which there is none here.

Unless some coach is stupid enough to flat say yeah I am benching you because you are not being a team player because you didnt go to our religious team building activity we had planned it would a little hard to prove discrimination.

Edited August 23, 2015 by FalconsAirMiles

[JayOzOne]

I often hear folks at my church say 'when they took prayer out of school, they let the devil in'. Personally, I strongly disagree with that. I'm okay with prayer in general, but my beliefs are contrary to most Christians' professed understanding of the Bible. I'm cool with prayer in general, but there has to be an inclusive nature to it. To be frank, if I was Muslim or Jewish, I wouldn't want a 'Christian' teacher leading a prayer in the name of Christ just like I don't want someone praying to Allah since most of the class is Islamic.

So there are two sides of it. I don't think people should be prevented from praying but if there's a hint of a player being singled out for not participating, that's against my religious principles and it should be stopped. I personally would not talk to anyone about my beliefs unless they first asked. By the same token, I'll gladly tell someone how wrong I find them to be if they feel compelled to ridicule the religious community if that conversation is not solicited. You seek your salvation and I'll seek mine.

I don't have a problem with Richt raising money for a Christian ministry. But if someone in a similar capacity wanted to do it for something that they're involved in, the school doesn't have the right to deny them. This is a thorny issue and it's proven tough to navigate.

[brentdawg58]

Having been in locker rooms I can guarantee you that the pressure isn't from the coaches.. If there is pressure its from the fellow players. And for you're separation between church and state argument, please re-read the quote you posted. I don't see any law being made with having a volunteer chaplin

[Carter]

Miserable because they have the obey the laws of the land like everyone else and do not get extra rights because of their faith. Yes, by having a separation of church and state.

Praying in public is not against the law. Employees of public establishments praying in public or in private is not against the law. Establishing laws would be against our constitution. Praying with students or football players, however, is not. It is stopped because some nonbelievers manage to bully leadership into avoiding a public spectacle.

Unless some coach is stupid enough to flat say yeah I am benching you because you are not being a team player because you didnt go to our religious team building activity we had planned it would a little hard to prove discrimination.

So where is the proof that there IS discrimination then? Arian Foster? His coach at Tennessee got fired, not sure if you heard. There is also only Foster's side of that story there. He barely played in college and wasn't much of a factor when he did play. He went undrafted and then blew up... he's not the first or last that will have that story.

[Billy Ocean]

There's a saying: "There are two things you don't talk about in mixed company, and that's religion and politics..." If you want to talk about your religion, do it at your place of worship. If you want to talk about your politics, do it at a venue for discussing political matters. Otherwise it's best to keep your personal views personal.

[95Dawg]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/07/09/the-true-meaning-of-separation-of-church-and-state/

Not what the founding fathers intended.

Just revisionist at work.

Edited August 23, 2015 by 95Dawg

[FalconsAirMiles]

Having been in locker rooms I can guarantee you that the pressure isn't from the coaches.. If there is pressure its from the fellow players. And for you're separation between church and state argument, please re-read the quote you posted. I don't see any law being made with having a volunteer chaplin

Perhaps you did not see where often times these chaplain were paid for services they provided, given meal per diems, paid to travel with the team for themselves and their families with university funds. Since these are public university receiving public funds they cannot endorse a religion by paying, allowing the use of the facilities, or proselytizing.

Use of Instructional Facilities for Religious Purposes. As a public entity, Clemson University is governed by State and Federal laws prohibiting both the establishment of any religion and discrimination against any individual or organization on the basis of religion. In accordance with these legal principles, Clemson University does not allow the use of its instructional facilities for any religious event or by any religious organization not officially recognized by the University. “Religious organizations” include traditional religious organizations of all denominations as well as any organization recognized as a charitable religious organization by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, including organizations which advocate atheism.

http://www.clemson.edu/studentaffairs/campuslife/studentcenter/multimedia/pdf/facility-use-policy.pdf

Player baptized at Clemson.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/09/clemson-wr-deandre-hopkins-baptized-at-practiced/1#.VdlCM_lViko

[FalconsAirMiles]

Praying in public is not against the law. Employees of public establishments praying in public or in private is not against the law. Establishing laws would be against our constitution. Praying with students or football players, however, is not. It is stopped because some nonbelievers manage to bully leadership into avoiding a public spectacle.

Supreme Court has to power to interpret the Constitution and laws including the one on prayer I am not sure how nonbelievers were able to "bully" leadership into something when both sides are allowed to argue their case in front of the Supreme Court. Not to mention the majority of the US population is Christian and somehow they hold some immense power to get people to bend to their will.

Speaking of laws and public spectacles. Matthew 6.6 on praying in public.

When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.…

So where is the proof that there IS discrimination then? Arian Foster? His coach at Tennessee got fired, not sure if you heard. There is also only Foster's side of that story there. He barely played in college and wasn't much of a factor when he did play. He went undrafted and then blew up... he's not the first or last that will have that story.

The fact coaches are not allowed to use university facilities and funds to endorse their religion is discriminatory and illegal.

[Carter]

I don't think the majority of the US population is Christian at all. The majority of the population might associate with it for whatever reason but faith itself is dying off a bit across the board; population number only gets bigger, but church attendance numbers are going down despite it.

Pretty much beside the point.

Our military also has paid chaplains you know. Paid chaplains who belong to units and travel with them, hold services, perform various duties. Paid completely by federal money.

Some of the people so adamantly against this stuff need to have a seat and eat a snickers. There are a lot of things that are actually harmful in this world that yall could put your energy for change into. Going after Christian football coaches who share fellowship with Christian students is a poor use of that energy imo.