Braves Vs Giants 8/3-8/5

[Unknøwn]

AJC had a nice article on Hudson. Tonight is of course his final game at Turner Field. Hudson says he'll be picking up where he left off as a child by becoming a big Braves fan. Says he looks forward to taking in games and bringing his kids to the new SunTrust Park.

[WOR]

I think I might rather have Hudson as a manager than chipper. But I think that's even less likely.

[Unknøwn]

I dont see Hudson ever doing any coaching. I think he just wants to be a family man.

[Falconsfan567]

I don't see either of them ever becoming coaches. Huddy seems like he's too much of a family guy to want to go into full-time coaching and continue living out of a suitcase for 7 months a year. Chipper is just too much into other things like hunting, fishing and spending time with his boys to go into coaching.

[Unknøwn]

The Braves just scored on Bumgarner. Moral victory. Lavarnway comes through.

[Unknøwn]

Since getting to .500 at 42-42 the Braves are 6-18.

[K26dp]

For someone who came into the organization with a pretty decent defensive reputation, Eury Perez has been crap for the most part in the field.

[Positive Thinker]

Always felt like Glavine should have won number 300 with the Braves.

All three Atlanta pitchers that spent the prime of thei career in Atlanta that are in the hall of fame got thir 300th win in another uniform. That sucks. Niekro, Glavine, and Maddux.

[Positive Thinker]

Well goodnight everybody! Got it over early tonight. Time to find something else to do. It's seasons like tonight where I miss Skip and Pete so much. They always made the games entertaining even when the Braves sucked.

Skip especially... He used to get his hand slapped by Braves management all the time because of his honesty-filled humor.

[jidady]

If I cherry-picked some stat to try to prove a shaky proposition, you'd call me out on it, and rightfully so. "The Gattis trade was a disaster because Foltynewicz has a .900 OPS against in 11 starts" is so flimsy it's borderline nonsensical.

I feel the same way about the refutation of it, so I guess we're diametrically opposed on the subject. There's a difference between not succeeding and getting destroyed. Folty is falling into the second category. And Ruiz is failing just as much on his level. I understand people want to be supportive of the team and in fact was annoyed that the first post I saw today was someone complaining about Olivera again. Having said that, at some point, we have to be honest about what we have. The two major pieces in the Gattis appear YEARS away from becoming productive players. I'd love to be wrong about that, but it's not even close thus far.

[jidady]

I've just watched last night's game, and that was a special sort of brutal. Perez somehow managed to have a powerful sinker while giving up so many ground balls with eyes it stopped being funny after a while. The only real mistake he made in the first six innings of the game was hanging the pitch to Tomlinson, who hit it off the end of the bat to the opposite field for a two-run single. Other than that, there was one relatively harmless fly ball to the warning track. For that reason, the game was BRUTAL to watch.

His hits allowed were:

Posey diving at a ball that was a foot outside, somehow golfing it to center.

Adrianza hitting a soft grounder just out of Jace's reach (although it probably would have been an infield single anyway)

Blanco hitting off the end of the bat to the gap between SS and 3B that Andrelton would have converted into an out (they cut to Andrelton in the dugout after the play for that reason)

Posey hitting a solid single to left (the only non-cheap hit until the 7th)

Adrianza with a pretty swing on a pitch that he somehow golfed to left field and then legged into the only extra-base hit until the 7th. The way Markakis was set up, we weren't expecting him to pull that pitch on the outside of the plate.

Tomlinson with a dribbler up the middle over the 2B bag right between Jace and Garcia

Posey with a flare single that fell between Garcia, Cameron and Gomes that was such a joke Posey wasn't even running hard on the play. He thought he'd popped out.

That should've been the end of the night, but for some reason, Fredi had Perez lead off the inning down 3-0. I'm not one to question every managerial decision, but that one really hurt for a couple of reasons. We put on two baserunners in the inning after Perez got out, and then he failed to retire a batter in the 7th. I presume it was because Perez had great stuff and had thrown only 80 pitches, but it still blew up on us.

Perez walks Aoki on a 3-2 sinker that he refuses to bite on. And then the crippler occurs that ticked me off so much that I did this entire write-up. Aoki is running on another 3-2 pitch, and that's why a routine groundball double play becomes first and third and nobody out. You could just see the wind come out of Perez's sails after an entire evening of bad luck. Even so, the pitch he threw to Duffy was pretty good, and it's a credit to an underrated player that he drove it to the gap in right-center, ending Perez's night.

As much fun as the comeback win was, I think last night's loss was that much more frustrating for me. I must have screamed, "OH COME ON!" at least eight times.

[K26dp]

I feel the same way about the refutation of it, so I guess we're diametrically opposed on the subject. There's a difference between not succeeding and getting destroyed. Folty is falling into the second category. And Ruiz is failing just as much on his level. I understand people want to be supportive of the team and in fact was annoyed that the first post I saw today was someone complaining about Olivera again. Having said that, at some point, we have to be honest about what we have. The two major pieces in the Gattis appear YEARS away from becoming productive players. I'd love to be wrong about that, but it's not even close thus far.

Foltynewicz has had 11 major league starts. You have to allow time for talented players to fail in this game. You watch and see a guy getting destroyed, I watch and see a guy with some outstanding pitches that may be close to figuring it out. Personally, I think your initial dislike of the Gattis trade colors your perspective.

And Ruiz is 21 years old. Even if he repeats AA next season, which I hope he does, he's still well within the window for being a viable prospect.

And when Olivera comes up, I fully intend to let him have the opportunity to find his level before declaring the Wood trade a "disaster". ****, I'd even have to see what becomes of Zack Bird before I can come to a conclusion on that one as well.

[jidady]

Personally, I think your initial dislike of the Gattis trade colors your perspective.

I readily acknowledge that's a possibility.

[Falconsfan567]

That's the thing that folks aren't considering. It's way too early to consider this a bad deal. Also it would be a bad thing if Folty had been awful every time he stepped on the mound but that's not the case. He has proven he can pitch successfully at the major league level. He just needs to learn to do it on a consistent basic and that will come with time.

Mike Foltynewicz - 11 GS, 64 IP, 79 H, 42 R, 38 ER, 14 HR, 20 BB, 56 SO, 5.34 ERA, 1.547 WHIP

John Smoltz - 12 GS, 64 IP, 74 H, 40 R, 39 ER, 10 HR, 33 BB, 37 SO, 5.48 ERA, 1.672 WHIP

Am I talking to myself? How in the world did this post right here get ignored? Is it because maybe it shows that jidady is completely overreacting to how Folty has pitched?

[jidady]

How in the world did this post right here get ignored?

Since you asked, I'll answer. I gave the argument you made exactly the amount of attention I felt it deserved. Yes, a pitcher in the 1980s overcame a horrific start to become a Hall of Fame pitcher. How often does that happen as opposed to guys washing out after that kind of perennial beating as a rookie?

[Falconsfan567]

Since you asked, I'll answer. I gave the argument you made exactly the amount of attention I felt it deserved. Yes, a pitcher in the 1980s overcame a horrific start to become a Hall of Fame pitcher. How often does that happen as opposed to guys washing out after that kind of perennial beating as a rookie?

I'm not saying that Folty will become John Smoltz or even amount to anything great. I'm just saying it's way too early to give up on him. If the Braves had dumped John Smoltz after his first 12 MLB starts then we would have never gotten to see him become what he became. They can't dump Folty after just 12 MLB starts just because you think they should.

I'm still wondering what other offers they had that they turned down to accept the Astros offer that they somehow regret now.

[jidady]

I'm not saying that Folty will become John Smoltz or even amount to anything great. I'm just saying it's way too early to give up on him. If the Braves had dumped John Smoltz after his first 12 MLB starts then we would have never gotten to see him become what he became. They can't dump Folty after just 12 MLB starts just because you think they should.

Terrific, and if I'd made the argument that the Braves should dump Folty, your reply would engage me. Instead, I flatly stated that Folty has been terrible, and I'll add a data point to support that. Out of pitchers with at least 60 innings pitched, he's 145th out of 149 pitchers in OPS against. Even your buddy Kyle Lohse at .858 is well ahead of his woeful .906. These are undeniable facts that have nothing to do with what John Smoltz did when Ronald Reagan was still president.

[Falconsfan567]

Terrific, and if I'd made the argument that the Braves should dump Folty, your reply would engage me. Instead, I flatly stated that Folty has been terrible, and I'll add a data point to support that. Out of pitchers with at least 60 innings pitched, he's 145th out of 149 pitchers in OPS against. Even your buddy Kyle Lohse at .858 is well ahead of his woeful .906. These are undeniable facts that have nothing to do with what John Smoltz did when Ronald Reagan was still president.

K26dp said the same thing I did about Smoltz.

Also you're the one that can't back your claim that the Braves regret the trade and would have accepted one of the other offers they had for Gattis.

[jidady]

the Braves regret the trade and would have accepted one of the other offers they had for Gattis.

Yes, that's a bold assertion.

[Dawggone]

Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz were all kinda sucky at first. Give Folty a chance I say.

[Falconsfan567]

Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz were all kinda sucky at first. Give Folty a chance I say.

That's all me and K26dp were trying to say.