Rivers Vs Ryan: A Necessary Teaching

[Dirtybird#11]

It went so well the 1st time... why not try it again? At this point in their careers both QBs have shown good strides and both have played in EXTREMELY similar conditions. (Average defenses,Solid Offensive weapons,average-below average OLINEs,you get the point) They both have also made it to their respective Conference title games, and both, in those games, have lost. So this poses the question.... Are these 2 QBs good enough to be even considered in the top 7? I mean stats don't lie they're impressive but their entire body of work just isn't there.

Rivers stat line (EXCLUDING 2 of his better season in 2008 an 2009)

Completion %=64.4

Passing Yards=28,244

TDs=189

INTs=101

Sacked=232

QBR=93.3

Ryan stat line

Completion %=64.0

Passing Yards=28,166

TDs=181

INTs=91

Sacked=188

QBR=91.1

So how about it Falcons Fans? If you consider Matty Ice elite then it's almost a must that you have to consider Rivers as elite if not better than Matt solely based on their play and their familiar scenarios.....

[Vandy]

Both are excellent QBs with compelling stats, but neither's "elite" at this point due to lack of playoff success. I know that's an unpopular opinion for the board, but it's how the world works.

I do think both QBs are poised to go further in playoffs and with a little luck even a SB, as they are now in their prime years. it'll be interesting to see what happens with both these next 5 years.

[pzummo]

Didn't the Chargers have the best defense in the entire league the year they lost the championship game? Rivers had some pretty **** good defenses over the years. Just not recently.

The Super Bowl argument for QB's is so weak. It's really ridiculous in a sport with 53 players on each team, with 22 people on the field every play. I would take Ryan over Russell Wilson, and that's not meant to be a knock on Wilson. I like Wilson a lot, both his play on the field and his character. But the reality is he doesn't have to do that much with Lynch, that OL, and that defense.

[Ovie_Lover]

NO NO NO NO GOD PLEASE NO

[Moist Words]

Didn't the Chargers have the best defense in the entire league the year they lost the championship game? Rivers had some pretty damn good defenses over the years. Just not recently.

The Super Bowl argument for QB's is so weak. It's really ridiculous in a sport with 53 players on each team, with 22 people on the field every play. I would take Ryan over Russell Wilson, and that's not meant to be a knock on Wilson. I like Wilson a lot, both his play on the field and his character. But the reality is he doesn't have to do that much with Lynch, that OL, and that defense.

I want to say that both the defense and offense were top ten in the league that year for the Chargers. I think their Special teams were atrocious that year though.

Going off of memory though so I could be wrong.

[FalconFanSince1970]

Both are excellent QBs with compelling stats, but neither's "elite" at this point due to lack of playoff success. I know that's an unpopular opinion for the board, but it's how the world works.

I do think both QBs are poised to go further in playoffs and with a little luck even a SB, as they are now in their prime years. it'll be interesting to see what happens with both these next 5 years.

End thread

[Dirtybird#11]

NO NO NO NO GOD PLEASE NO

It had to be done.

[likeriver]

Matt Ryan is my favorite QB. He's my favorite player, period. But he's NOT elite. His stats are very high quality, the envy of about 20 teams in the league that would kill for him, but he hasn't done anything to prove he's elite. That said, THAT SAID, I'm confident that he has the potential to be elite. It's there. You just watch this guy and know that there's a ceiling waiting to be broken. Again, as I pointed out in another thread, Drew Brees didn't become elite until around 30, which is where Matt Ryan is now. When he said he was feeling better than ever a few months ago, I think he was being sincere. He showed bursts of skill last season that rivaled anything he's done in the past. He just needs to maintain that level of consistency throughout the season, which I believe he can do. If Matt Ryan put up 40+ TD's this season I would not be surprised.

Edited July 19, 2015 by likeriver

[Moist Words]

Both are excellent QBs with compelling stats, but neither's "elite" at this point due to lack of playoff success. I know that's an unpopular opinion for the board, but it's how the world works.

I do think both QBs are poised to go further in playoffs and with a little luck even a SB, as they are now in their prime years. it'll be interesting to see what happens with both these next 5 years.

This^ is almost exactly what I think. As far as the "Elite" label I couldn't care less about what Ryan is called if I think he can bring us a Lombardi and I do.

[quickzero]

Matt is a better quarterback than everyone except, big ben, luck, rodgers, and he will surpass brady, brees, and manning this season. Wilson and Newton are examples of players who can also reach that plateau this season. But Matt is better right now.

[Dirtybird#11]

Matt is a better quarterback than everyone except, big ben, luck, rodgers, and he will surpass brady, brees, and manning this season. Wilson and Newton are examples of players who can also reach that plateau this season. But Matt is better right now.

So you believe Matt is better than Flacco,Rivers,Romo,and Wilson?

As I said in another thread I believe Ryan is the 9th best QB in the league an could easily be surpassed by Rivers and Stafford given some solid playoff play.

My personal top 15....

1.Brady

2.Rodgers

3.Luck

4.Big Ben

5.Brees

6.Manning

7.Flacco

8.Romo

9.Ryan

10.Wilson

11.Stafford

12.Rivers

13.Tannehill

14.Dalton

15.Newton

[Atlfanstckndenver]

So you believe Matt is better than Flacco,Rivers,Romo,and Wilson?

As I said in another thread I believe Ryan is the 9th best QB in the league an could easily be surpassed by Rivers and Stafford given some solid playoff play.

My personal top 15....

1.Brady

2.Rodgers

3.Luck

4.Big Ben

5.Brees

6.Manning

7.Flacco

8.Romo

9.Ryan

10.Wilson

11.Stafford

12.Rivers

13.Tannehill

14.Dalton

15.Newton

You could make that argument.

[Butudontseeme™]

Both are excellent QBs with compelling stats, but neither's "elite" at this point due to lack of playoff success. I know that's an unpopular opinion for the board, but it's how the world works.

I do think both QBs are poised to go further in playoffs and with a little luck even a SB, as they are now in their prime years. it'll be interesting to see what happens with both these next 5 years.

"elite" is a worthless label anyway. There are only 3 transcendent QBs in the league right now, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady. Those type of guys, the ones who redefine and reform the game, are the only true elites. You've got a second tier of QBs that are all very good, and very capable of winning and perhaps even be HoF worthy at the end of their careers. Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli, Luck, Rivers (maybe a couple of others) are in this group. Number/rank them however you want, it's futile.

[Butudontseeme™]

So you believe Matt is better than Flacco,Rivers,Romo,and Wilson?

As I said in another thread I believe Ryan is the 9th best QB in the league an could easily be surpassed by Rivers and Stafford given some solid playoff play.

My personal top 15....

1.Brady

2.Rodgers

3.Luck

4.Big Ben

5.Brees

6.Manning

7.Flacco

8.Romo

9.Ryan

10.Wilson

11.Stafford

12.Rivers

13.Tannehill

14.Dalton

15.Newton

I assume that's Peyton you're referencing. Is Eli not in your top 15? I'd sure take him over Stanford, Tannehill, Dalton but not Cam.

[Ovie_Lover]

So you believe Matt is better than Flacco,Rivers,Romo,and Wilson?

As I said in another thread I believe Ryan is the 9th best QB in the league an could easily be surpassed by Rivers and Stafford given some solid playoff play.

My personal top 15....

1.Brady

2.Rodgers

3.Luck

4.Big Ben

5.Brees

6.Manning

7.Flacco

8.Romo

9.Ryan

10.Wilson

11.Stafford

12.Rivers

13.Tannehill

14.Dalton

15.Newton

I agree with that list and I think we can both agree with playoff success Ryan could move up to 5-7

[Vandy]

"elite" is a worthless label anyway. There are only 3 transcendent QBs in the league right now, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady. Those type of guys, the ones who redefine and reform the game, are the only true elites. You've got a second tier of QBs that are all very good, and very capable of winning and perhaps even be HoF worthy at the end of their careers. Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli, Luck, Rivers (maybe a couple of others) are in this group. Number/rank them however you want, it's futile.

I agree, but majority of this board is consumed by it.

[Wjcorner]

why are you excluding seasons from Rivers stats??? that's really weird, especially since Ryan was playing at that point

[Lornoth]

The casual fan puts too much emphasis on playoff success from QB's. Guys don't turn into different players in the playoffs, except for a very very short list of people that just can't handle the spotlight at all, or people that play up to the spotlight hugely. There are literally only a handful of those people in the league. Romo, Rivers, and Matt are not some of those people. You're either good (or "elite") or you're not, it's about how good you are as a player, not how well you do in the bigger games.

Anyway, Rivers and Ryan are two of the best QB's in the league. That's all that matters to me.

[Dirtybird#11]

why are you excluding seasons from Rivers stats??? that's really weird, especially since Ryan was playing at that point

I took his 3rd an 4th seasons out because...

1.They where 2 solid seasons an if I included them Rivers would've killed Ryan statistically

2.I had to incorporate Rivers rookie year and sophomore season because those are critical to a QB an how he'll mold. Plus it would be unfair to compare Rivers 2008 an 2009 seasons to Ryan's rookie an sophomore because Rivers hit his stride in those seasons. Much like Ryan hit his stride in 2011-2012.

[Drunken Minotaur Zebra]

Both are excellent QBs with compelling stats, but neither's "elite" at this point due to lack of playoff success. I know that's an unpopular opinion for the board, but it's how the world works.

I do think both QBs are poised to go further in playoffs and with a little luck even a SB, as they are now in their prime years. it'll be interesting to see what happens with both these next 5 years.

I'm one of the posters here who thinks Ryan is "elite" in terms of skill, but what you said is definitely how it works. If he gets to the big game or wins it I think we can definitely safely call him elite.

[Dirtybird#11]

I'm one of the posters here who thinks Ryan is "elite" in terms of skill, but what you said is definitely how it works. If he gets to the big game or wins it I think we can definitely safely call him elite.

Absolutely. You sir get a +1

[Door Gunner]

For me it easy. I just switch the two QBs in question, and ask myself witch team would benefit more. it's a very small list that beats out Ryan. Flacco and Rivers are not on that list.

[Falconsfan567]

Didn't the Chargers have the best defense in the entire league the year they lost the championship game? Rivers had some pretty **** good defenses over the years. Just not recently.

The Super Bowl argument for QB's is so weak. It's really ridiculous in a sport with 53 players on each team, with 22 people on the field every play. I would take Ryan over Russell Wilson, and that's not meant to be a knock on Wilson. I like Wilson a lot, both his play on the field and his character. But the reality is he doesn't have to do that much with Lynch, that OL, and that defense.

But Rivers was playing on a torn ACL in the playoffs that year.

[FalconFanSince1970]

This^ is almost exactly what I think. As far as the "Elite" label I couldn't care less about what Ryan is called if I think he can bring us a Lombardi and I do.

I would even take a Peyton Manning 2006 Lombardi when he got his as handed to him and his worst defense in the league rose up in the playoffs and carried him to his only ring.

[Pacific_Falcon]

Am i the only one that doesnt give a F about other teams' QBs and how they compare to ours? If we traded Ryan for one of them it makes sense in terms of debating who got the better end of the trade. And 1 of these train wreck threads wasnt enough?

Troll thread.