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A Ton Of Bricks


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For anyone mildly interested, Greece just voted on a financing referendum to a European proposal that was withdrawn prior to the vote. The outcome appears to be increasingly leaning towards no.


So what, Greece is in Europe, small and not relevant right? That's one account that's been pushed, but 2015's largest single day drop in the S&P 500 happened on Monday after Greece became the first developed nation to default on an IMF payment. Other nations had previously defaulted, Sudan, Somalia and Zimbabwe. So much for Greece not mattering.


Greece has instituted capital controls, their banks and markets have been closed all week. ATM's limit withdrawals and the country is literally running out of cash. Despite that it appears that the Greeks refused to accept proposals from the euro's that they considered 'blackmail.' It's rare that I would ever find myself applauding the actions of an extreme left wing socialist party in encouraging the "Oxi" vote, but that's what it seems to have taken to stand up to the bankers. Good on them.


Though the situation is quite different from events in the US that led to the meltdown that occurred here, the similarities are of bad lending practices to entities that are unable to repay. Greece hasn't been able to pay for some years now. At some point the bankers have to accept that reality. There is a socialist party in Spain called Podemos that is gaining popularity, following closely in Greece's footsteps. Then there is Italy with an overly high amount of debt.


Some believe that EU will be stronger without Greece and that may be true, but if Italy and Spain follow things could get even uglier. This does not automatically mean a Greek exit, but if the euros blink on their terms with Greece, Italy and Spain will want better terms.


Deutsche Bank expects the Greek no vote to hit markets badly. I'll have an idea later on when I check the futures.
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You have to feel horrible for many of the citizens, They did all that they were told they needed to do to prepare and just got completely screwed by their government. Greek debt crisis: Photograph of elderly man collapsed outside bank reveals pensioner's despair

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A heartbreaking photograph of an elderly man collapsed on the ground openly crying in despair outside a Greek bank, his savings book and identity card strewn next to him, has captivated people around the world.

The image illustrated how ordinary Greeks were suffering during the country's debt crisis and it quickly went viral.

Now it has been revealed the crying pensioner was 77-year-old retiree Giorgos Chatzifotiadis.

Mr Chatzifotiadis had queued up at three banks in Greece's second city of Thessaloniki on Friday in the hope of withdrawing a pension on behalf of his wife — but all in vain.

When he went to a fourth bank and was told he could not withdraw his 120 euros ($180), it was all too much and he fell down in tears.

Mr Chatzifotiadis said he broke down because he "cannot stand to see my country in this distress".

"That's why I feel so beaten, more than for my own personal problems," he said.

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Athens had imposed capital controls and shut all banks since Monday to stem a haemorrhage of cash, but on Wednesday allowed some branches to reopen for three days so retirees who had no bank cards could withdraw their pensions — capped at 120 euros.

Recounting how he had gone from bank to bank in a futile attempt to collect his wife's pension, Mr Chatzifotiadis said when he was told at the fourth "that I could not get the money, I just collapsed".

Both he and his wife, like many Greeks in the north of the country, had spent several years in Germany where he "worked very hard" in a coal mine and later a foundry.

And it is from Berlin, which has been blamed by many in Greece for its hardline stance in demanding the government impose more austerity measures for fresh international aid, that Mr Chatzifotiadis is receiving his wife's pension.

"I see my fellow citizens begging for a few cents to buy bread," he said.

"I see more and more suicides.

"I am a sensitive person. I cannot stand to see my country in this situation.

"Europe and Greece have made mistakes. We must find a solution."

But Mr Chatzifotiadis felt he could do little to change the situation — and he was not even sure if he would be able to vote at Sunday's referendum on whether to accept international creditors' bailout conditions.

Pointing out that the polling station is 80 kilometres away, Mr Chatzifotiadis said: "I have no money to go there, unless perhaps if my children would take me in their car."

European leaders have warned that a "No" vote would also mean no to the eurozone.

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PHOTO: Mr Chatzifotiadis had queued up at three banks in Greece's second city of Thessaloniki on Friday in the hope of withdrawing a pension on behalf of his wife — but all in vain. (AFP: Sakis Mitrolidis)

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Socialists == bad

People speaking in totality/generalities as usual..

I suspected as much, It's so odd that it would take an extreme left socialist party to effectively change discussions with the hegemonic central bank. We have our own problems in that regard in the US and I hope it doesn't come to that
The no vote has bolstered Greece's negotiating power and the loan sharks um Euro group lenders don't want that.
As expected this has hit the futures, but not as badly as last Sunday's news. That could change though when Europe opens overnight.
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You have to feel horrible for many of the citizens, They did all that they were told they needed to do to prepare and just got completely screwed by their government. Greek debt crisis: Photograph of elderly man collapsed outside bank reveals pensioner's despair

I absolutely knew that this topic would go over like a ton of bricks on this lame forum (other than your response ), hence the title. If it isn't about race, socialists, neocons, republicans and democrats et al, and the effusive name calling that accompanies those topics, you may as well be speaking 'Greek.' Even though the topic isn't specifically about that, the mere mention of leftist drew an instinctive response.

What is ironic is that what is happening in Greece now impacts Greeks more than any bickering that they might have done about righties vs lefties in the past. In other words Americans are pre-occupied crying about race, leftists and conservatives while the forces of crony banking wreak havoc on more and more people around the world, as though such events won't affect us and secondly cannot happen here. That is ridiculously naive at best if not profoundly stupid.

Yes the human cost is tragic it has to be awful for those pensioners. There was some bank running in Greece in recent months, some people knew to not just sit back and leave things to chance, but many did not. I saw a chart somewhere that had a demographic breakdown of the referendum voting, pretty much every group except pensioners favored the no vote. Even among pensioners, a good many voted no. Even for those that stashed some currency things may be tough as groceries store have been emptied as when storms hit in the US

As of April 30, Greece owed 312,679,022,950 euro, that amount would have taken 42 years to repay without missing payments, penalties or adjustments to interest, that's insane! The Eurocrats don't give a **** whether Greece is comprised of conservatives or leftists, no more than they care whether it buries them. They actually want to see a regime change in Greece for people who would willing agree to saddle the Greek people with ever more increasing and perpetual debt.

Meanwhile in the US, the ongoing bickering about lefties, righties, race and diversity are serving as ideal distractions while our own central bank's balance sheet has ballooned in the past decade to bandage a non-existent fiscal policy. What could possibly go wrong?

Greeks were screwed no matter what, either they take the loan shark deal or face one of the new and favorite tools of banksters - the bail-in where depositors have to fund a failing bank. That's just what some Greek's are facing while this plays out. Some stand to lose 30% of their balances when the banks re-open. We do not yet have provisions for bail-ins here in the US, but things haven't gotten that bad yet. When they do, and they will, you can be certain that the government will be in even more debt than it is today and you can bet that the banking lobby will be as powerful and will be able to get bail-ins legislated when they declare that they need to, with the support of the corporatist legislators.

That reminds me, I have my prediction on the 2016 Presidential election. The next president will be another crony corporatist. The D or R designation will be completely irrelevant except for guiding the chorus. If it is an R then that one will be labeled as a war monger, conservative, Nazi that only cares about rich people and if D then they shall be identified as socialist, communist etc. That will help preserve the status quo and generally obfuscate the reality that they are more loyal to the crony system than to their party, constituency and even the nation they swore an oath to.

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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money"

- Margaret Thatcher

Greece finding this out the hard way.

Most of Greece's problems revolve around a significant portion of their population not bothering to pay taxes and the government cooking the books with the help of banking entities like Goldman Sachs to get into the EU in the first place. It didn't help that their government did such ******** things as using emergency funds they had received after all this had happened to buy military equipment from the United States.

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Most of Greece's problems revolve around a significant portion of their population not bothering to pay taxes and the government cooking the books with the help of banking entities like Goldman Sachs to get into the EU in the first place. It didn't help that their government did such ******** things as using emergency funds they had received after all this had happened to buy military equipment from the United States.

Oh, it's Goldman's fault. Why not, everything else is.
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Oh, it's Goldman's fault. Why not, everything else is.

Yes and no. Goldman, among others, helped Greece cook the books and then bet on them to default. However, to blame all of this on the banks is not correct. They played their part but it's Greece's fault for taking that approach in the first place, the fault of the people for not paying taxes they were billed, and the government's fault for botching the entire post-collapse situation so horrendously.

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Yes and no. Goldman, among others, helped Greece cook the books and then bet on them to default. However, to blame all of this on the banks is not correct. They played their part but it's Greece's fault for taking that approach in the first place, the fault of the people for not paying taxes they were billed, and the government's fault for botching the entire post-collapse situation so horrendously.

I'm well aware of Goldman's role in masking Greece's deficit back i. The early 2000's. But Goldman's role was paltry, about $5 billion in currency manipulation at best. And it should be noted that what they did was completely legal. The problem here is that we like to pretend the Greeks and even the Eurozone are a bunch of unsophisticated dolts. All parties knew exactly what they were getting into. Goldman didn't hide anything, they circumvented policy, and even asked the EZ for acceptance.
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Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher can say it better than I ever could.

Post #4 said it even better.
I have admired many things about Churchill, but neither his quotes or Thatcher's are worth a Drachma in this matter. Further, neither of them ever commented on the system of endemic cronyism that exists in various forms and is prevalent now.
It's not the type of thing that anyone limited to only perceiving things within the binary spectrum of leftie and rightie could ever see.
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Post #4 said it even better.
I have admired many things about Churchill, but neither his quotes or Thatcher's are worth a Drachma in this matter. Further, neither of them ever commented on the system of endemic cronyism that exists in various forms and is prevalent now.
It's not the type of thing that anyone limited to only perceiving things within the binary spectrum of leftie and rightie could ever see.

nah....you said it best in post #7

it is people who still take sides in this farce that our government has become that allow this to continue.

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