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Christian Or Not, There Is No Way


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As much as people dog religion for the misdeeds of the few, it is still the most powerful mechanism for bringing peace into people's hearts. That congregation is an amazing demonstration of God's power. All churches should model themselves after them. My prayers go out to every one of those that have lost.

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As much as people dog religion for the misdeeds of the few, it is still the most powerful mechanism for bringing peace into people's hearts. That congregation is an amazing demonstration of God's power. All churches should model themselves after them. My prayers go out to every one of those that have lost.

If history is any indication, the religion has been the most powerful mechanism for bringing hatred into people's hearts. Nationalism isn't far behind.

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Yep. Unless they are the most amazing human being ever, those family members saying "I forgive you" right now can't possibly be in a place of total forgiveness at this moment. It's going to probably take years to get to that place if ever.

That's the thing, though. Forgiveness isn't an emotion. It's a decision. It's a choice. It's an action. What they do with their emotions afterward is separate from forgiveness. That's why so many people have such trouble with forgiveness. They can't separate the choice from their emotions.
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I would not say anyone is a better Christian than another Christian. But some Christians do lean on Jesus more than others and it would take a lot of leaning on Jesus to forgive some actions. It is about the strength of our relationship with Him.

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Guest facelessman07

The Apostle Paul was forgiven for the heinous crimes he committed as Saul

Forgiveness is essential to the Christian faith, no matter how hard it may be

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this was the ultimate amount of Faith a person can do,,, is to forgive...

Matthew 6:15

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

why would God say that.... here is why

Because Jesus forgave all men of sin while on the cross...

Luke 23;34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

So the people where doing nothing more than what Christ did over 2000 years ago... it is not in us to forgive... it takes the power of God to do this through us ... because without God I would not be able to forgive the shooter my self... but WITH HIM ( Jesus ) I can do ALL Things..... and just leaving it to God to Judge them at the end of all things....

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If history is any indication, the religion has been the most powerful mechanism for bringing hatred into people's hearts. Nationalism isn't far behind.

If history is any indication, hatred exists in people's hearts with or without religion. Religion has been the most powerful mechanism for bringing peace into people's hearts. That doesn't mean religion has a 100% success rate.

Religion bringing hatred into people's hearts is equivalent to saying science puts blood on people's hands. Nuclear bombs? Scientific breakthrough by a genius most people claim was Atheist (he clarified as Agnostic). Guns? Science. GPS guided missiles? Science. Even the misguided suicide bombers used scientific breakthroughs in order to carry out their plots of terror.

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If history is any indication, hatred exists in people's hearts with or without religion. Religion has been the most powerful mechanism for bringing peace into people's hearts. That doesn't mean religion has a 100% success rate.

Religion bringing hatred into people's hearts is equivalent to saying science puts blood on people's hands. Nuclear bombs? Scientific breakthrough by a genius most people claim was Atheist (he clarified as Agnostic). Guns? Science. GPS guided missiles? Science. Even the misguided suicide bombers used scientific breakthroughs in order to carry out their plots of terror.

Very poor analogy. People don't kill in the name of science. People don't kill to advance science. People don't kill to protect science. People don't kill because science tells them that others with different beliefs deserve to die.

I don't know how can one possibly argue that religion, or at least religion as interpreted by men, has been the biggest source of evil, suffering, and injustice in much of our documented history.

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Very poor analogy. People don't kill in the name of science. People don't kill to advance science. People don't kill to protect science. People don't kill because science tells them that others with different beliefs deserve to die.

I don't know how can one possibly argue that religion, or at least religion as interpreted by men, has been the biggest source of evil, suffering, and injustice in much of our documented history.

$$ and power has been the biggest source of evil in history. Many just abused the name of God to get it.
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Sorry for taking the bait and distracting from the thread. Back on topic.

I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the way this church responded. I hope my faith is never tested in the way they have experienced and pray I would have the strength to forgive. Just imagining such a thing happening to my loved ones makes me think of a Denzel line in Man on Fire.

"Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting."

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$$ and power has been the biggest source of evil in history. Many just abused the name of God to get it.

Fair point. But desire for wealth and power are personal traits, religion is an external factor. The problem with religion is that it takes an absolute stance. It asks people not to think, but to have faith, and trust the god and his representative. This very comfortably lends itself to abuse to gain power and wealth; no it begs to be abused for power and wealth.

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Very poor analogy. People don't kill in the name of science. People don't kill to advance science. People don't kill to protect science. People don't kill because science tells them that others with different beliefs deserve to die.

I don't know how can one possibly argue that religion, or at least religion as interpreted by men, has been the biggest source of evil, suffering, and injustice in much of our documented history.

People use science as a tool to kill people in mass numbers. People use religion as a tool to spread hatred. Blaming religion for people that spread hate is a perfect analogy to blaming science for people that kill.

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People use science as a tool to kill people in mass numbers. People use religion as a tool to spread hatred. Blaming religion for people that spread hate is a perfect analogy to blaming science for people that kill.

I could have sworn Hitler was killing for scientific reasons at times...

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Fair point. But desire for wealth and power are personal traits, religion is an external factor. The problem with religion is that it takes an absolute stance. It asks people not to think, but to have faith, and trust the god and his representative. This very comfortably lends itself to abuse to gain power and wealth; no it begs to be abused for power and wealth.

Incorrect. The scriptures beg over and over to use logic and reason and test and try the things that are said. Faith isn't a blind leap and certainty doesn't have an authoritative earthly representative today. That's the beautiful thing about Daniels prophecy. His kingdom isn't left to other people. Those who abuse it and use it for evil have no respect for it and thus it's not religion it's greedy people. Edited by Worzone
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