Ot Lamar Holmes Out Indefinitely With A Broken Foot

[Oldskooler]

Breaking bones in his foot before they even put the pads on? Another 3rd rd dart board pick by TD..Dude never should've been taken that early. Regardless of health/conditioning..

This is an ignorant post. TD has drafted some silly high-injury-risk players, but Holmes is not one of them. As far as I can remember, he had no injury concerns in school.

As far as where he was drafted, we had to have offensive line help. We used our two highest picks on Konz and Holmes. Both seemed as good as, or better than, anyone else at those positions at the time of the draft.

Lord knows I will gladly bust TD for his many bad picks. But Konz and Holmes are both examples of good picks gone bad.

[Vandy]

This is an ignorant post.

Lord knows I will gladly bust TD for his many bad picks. But Konz and Holmes are both examples of good picks gone bad.

Huh?

[Oldskooler]

Huh?

Sometimes a pick that appears to be a good, smart pick on draft night just doesn't pan out for any number of reasons.

Robert Gallery is an example. He was the consensus best o-lineman in that draft, before the draft.

There are examples of "sure-fire can't-miss" picks in every draft that misfire and miss badly.

Peria Jerry was a bad pick. Why? Extensive injury history in college.

Konz was a good pick that didn't work out (yet). The only indication of trouble was his bench of 18 reps, but many WiWisconsin linemen bench poorly. I read somewhere that their S&C coach doesn't believe in it, and trains them to strengthen their legs. And how many times have people here, probably including yourself, preached "tape over workouts"?

[Lornoth]

Sometimes a pick that appears to be a good, smart pick on draft night just doesn't pan out for any number of reasons.

Robert Gallery is an example. He was the consensus best o-lineman in that draft, before the draft.

There are examples of "sure-fire can't-miss" picks in every draft that misfire and miss badly.

Peria Jerry was a bad pick. Why? Extensive injury history in college.

Konz was a good pick that didn't work out (yet). The only indication of trouble was his bench of 18 reps, but many WiWisconsin linemen bench poorly. I read somewhere that their S&C coach doesn't believe in it, and trains them to strengthen their legs. And how many times have people here, probably including yourself, preached "tape over workouts"?

People don't understand the difference between a good draft pick, and a good player. There's a very big one but they want to lump them together.

[Oldskooler]

People don't understand the difference between a good draft pick, and a good player. There's a very big one but they want to lump them together.

Fortunately, I'm possessed of a sufficiently discerning intellect to know the difference.

Feel free to bask in the light of my brilliance.

[Falcons_Frenzy]

Waste of space I will be glad when he's gone

[AndySG]

Sometimes a pick that appears to be a good, smart pick on draft night just doesn't pan out for any number of reasons.

Robert Gallery is an example. He was the consensus best o-lineman in that draft, before the draft.

There are examples of "sure-fire can't-miss" picks in every draft that misfire and miss badly.

Peria Jerry was a bad pick. Why? Extensive injury history in college.

Konz was a good pick that didn't work out (yet). The only indication of trouble was his bench of 18 reps, but many WiWisconsin linemen bench poorly. I read somewhere that their S&C coach doesn't believe in it, and trains them to strengthen their legs. And how many times have people here, probably including yourself, preached "tape over workouts"?

Completely agree on Konz. The majority thought he would be our starting center for the next decade.

[Oldskooler]

Completely agree on Konz. The majority thought he would be our starting center for the next decade.

His one and only hope is the switch to a ZBS fitting his apparently limited tool set. If he doesn't make it now, he never will.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Sometimes a pick that appears to be a good, smart pick on draft night just doesn't pan out for any number of reasons.

Robert Gallery is an example. He was the consensus best o-lineman in that draft, before the draft.

There are examples of "sure-fire can't-miss" picks in every draft that misfire and miss badly.

Peria Jerry was a bad pick. Why? Extensive injury history in college.

Konz was a good pick that didn't work out (yet). The only indication of trouble was his bench of 18 reps, but many WiWisconsin linemen bench poorly. I read somewhere that their S&C coach doesn't believe in it, and trains them to strengthen their legs. And how many times have people here, probably including yourself, preached "tape over workouts"?

The Jerry criticism is silly. He's another one of the good picks gone bad.

You can't predict injury except in very rare cases. Perry had injury issues during college, suffered one catastrophic injury and then played almost every game for the rest of his career. He wasn't "injury prone" he simply had been injured.

But yes, players fail for all sorts of reasons. And I think if you asked most scouts/personnel men, they'd tell you that a whole **** of a lot of it has to do with development and implementation. Something we have struggled with.

[Oldskooler]

The Jerry criticism is silly. He's another one of the good picks gone bad.

You can't predict injury except in very rare cases. Perry had injury issues during college, suffered one catastrophic injury and then played almost every game for the rest of his career. He wasn't "injury prone" he simply had been injured.

But yes, players fail for all sorts of reasons. And I think if you asked most scouts/personnel men, they'd tell you that a whole **** of a lot of it has to do with development and implementation. Something we have struggled with.

After his devastating injury, he was never the same player he was in college. Much like Carimi, that injury robbed him of power, explosiveness, and athleticism.

And lest people forget, as a rookie, Carimi showed enough to warrant a Saints bounty. He didn't always suck, and his suckage is not due to a lack of talent or effort.

EDIT: I do agree with your point about development, and how our previous regime seemed to be almost incapable of implementing it. But Jerry was not poorly developed. He was unable to FULLY recover from his injury. And TD knew that Jerry had a history of injuries. Not just one injury, but several injuries, at Ole Miss.

Nolan having him shuffle back into coverage certainly didn't help.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Oldskooler

[capologist]

143 (now 144) posts on a backup having a broken foot...

[Oldskooler]

143 (now 144) posts on a backup having a broken foot...

A backup whose draft status indicated he should at least be in the mix to earn a starting job.

[papachaz]

So better technique and not being so f*cking clumsy will stop Julio from having bad feet? Or always getting knicked up?

I hear Joe Theisman is hunting bawses phone number.....

[Herr Doktor]

Trueblood is available.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

After his devastating injury, he was never the same player he was in college. Much like Carimi, that injury robbed him of power, explosiveness, and athleticism.

And lest people forget, as a rookie, Carimi showed enough to warrant a Saints bounty. He didn't always suck, and his suckage is not due to a lack of talent or effort.

EDIT: I do agree with your point about development, and how our previous regime seemed to be almost incapable of implementing it. But Jerry was not poorly developed. He was unable to FULLY recover from his injury. And TD knew that Jerry had a history of injuries. Not just one injury, but several injuries, at Ole Miss.

Nolan having him shuffle back into coverage certainly didn't help.

Well there's a disconnect here. If Jerry remained the same player through his nagging injuries during college and never/rarely suffered similar nagging injuries again then how can you hold a devastating injury like that against him/the FO? You can't predict ligament pops. It would be one thing if Jerry's health record looked like Baker's. But he was a guy that suffered one brutal injury that affected his ability moving forward. He was a perfect draft pick at the time. He just didnt work out because of an unpredictable event.

[TeamPlayer1]

If Holmes is not on the field, how will we know?

[Oldskooler]

Well there's a disconnect here. If Jerry remained the same player through his nagging injuries during college and never/rarely suffered similar nagging injuries again then how can you hold a devastating injury like that against him/the FO? You can't predict ligament pops. It would be one thing if Jerry's health record looked like Baker's. But he was a guy that suffered one brutal injury that affected his ability moving forward. He was a perfect draft pick at the time. He just didnt work out because of an unpredictable event.

I believe our disagreement is one of differing semantics. We both agree that Jerry had an extensive collegiate injury history. We agree that his pro career was derailed by a devastating injury.

We seem to just be stuck on good pick/bad pick. Perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree. I believe that Jerry was a bad pick because his history of frequent smaller injuries increase the odds of a much more serious injury happening.

Some guys just seem, for whatever reason, to be injured more often than others. While Jerry's collegiate injuries may not uave been causal to the pro injury, they should have certainly been a red flag that future injuries were more likely.

[AndySG]

His one and only hope is the switch to a ZBS fitting his apparently limited tool set. If he doesn't make it now, he never will.

Yep. If he ever wants to be a starter then this is the time. If he does nothing this year then he will struggle to make a roster.

[HOYLE]

143 (now 144) posts on a backup having a broken foot...

I don't think he was going to be a backup. There are not 5 better

linemen than him on this team. We have picked up some culls and

rejects from other teams and I am not giddy about them. Some people

think the new linemen are awesome but they kind of remind me of

some of the retread linebackers we brought in last year and then cut.

[Falconsfan567]

This is an ignorant post. TD has drafted some silly high-injury-risk players, but Holmes is not one of them. As far as I can remember, he had no injury concerns in school.

As far as where he was drafted, we had to have offensive line help. We used our two highest picks on Konz and Holmes. Both seemed as good as, or better than, anyone else at those positions at the time of the draft.

Lord knows I will gladly bust TD for his many bad picks. But Konz and Holmes are both examples of good picks gone bad.

Konz yes, Holmes no. Loved the Konz pick because he was the number 1 rated center coming out of the draft and I thought with him being from Wisconsin and their good history of producing quality offensive linemen that we had gotten a steal with him. But not on Holmes at all. Many said he was a 1 dimensional player that was drafted way too high and that he was going to be a project and take a lot of work to turn into a productive player.

[AndySG]

I don't think he was going to be a backup. There are not 5 better

linemen than him on this team. We have picked up some culls and

rejects from other teams and I am not giddy about them. Some people

think the new linemen are awesome but they kind of remind me of

some of the retread linebackers we brought in last year and then cut.

He's a tackle, which means there are two spots that he can play. Matthews and Schraeder both look like better options.

[HOYLE]

He's a tackle, which means there are two spots that he can play. Matthews and Schraeder both look like better options.

I am not afraid of using the best players. He is a lineman.

[Vandy]

Sometimes a pick that appears to be a good, smart pick on draft night just doesn't pan out for any number of reasons.

Robert Gallery is an example. He was the consensus best o-lineman in that draft, before the draft.

There are examples of "sure-fire can't-miss" picks in every draft that misfire and miss badly.

Peria Jerry was a bad pick. Why? Extensive injury history in college.

Konz was a good pick that didn't work out (yet). The only indication of trouble was his bench of 18 reps, but many WiWisconsin linemen bench poorly. I read somewhere that their S&C coach doesn't believe in it, and trains them to strengthen their legs. And how many times have people here, probably including yourself, preached "tape over workouts"?

I agree on Konz, but few besides Falcons brass (and I assume you) thought Holmes was a "smart pick" at the time.

Recent injury aside, I thought at the time he was a huge reach ala Southward/Dent mode.

(Full disclosure though...I wanted Mike Adams...but don't tell anyone) 😳

[HOYLE]

Best players? Holmes is not the best at anything except getting beat and getting hurt.

Which is an opinion. I have a different opinion.

I did not understand why we drafted him when we did. Now we

have an investment in a proto-typical offensive lineman and I

want him to heal up and rejoin the team.

[Oldskooler]

I agree on Konz, but few besides Falcons brass (and I assume you) thought Holmes was a "smart pick" at the time.

Recent injury aside, I thought at the time he was a huge reach ala Southward/Dent mode.

(Full disclosure though...I wanted Mike Adams...but don't tell anyone)

I had never heard of Holmes until we drafted him. So I didn't think it was "smart", but I don't recall any OT's that were obviously and clearly better on the board at the time. I didn't say "why Holmes and not X?" Admittedly, after the first couple of rounds I am not as up on the players as some of the Kiper Wannabes here.

But the point is that we needed a tackle badly, and he seemed to be as likely as any to be good. The Panties said they were about to draft him, and had worked him out. He came from a pass-happy system and we were sloughing off our run-first conservative style to pursue "explosiveness" and a pass-first offense.