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DirtyBird8711

Scott Pioli Named Most Influential Falcon, But Just How Influential Is He?

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Yeah Yeah I defend smitty so lets get this out of the way now. However you guys can't blame Smitty for Making these draft picks and then contradict yourself and say well TD has good draft picks as well. I personally don't care which way you slant it but you can't have it both ways when it is convient.

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Yeah Yeah I defend smitty so lets get this out of the way now. However you guys can't blame Smitty for Making these draft picks and then contradict yourself and say well TD has good draft picks as well. I personally don't care which way you slant it but you can't have it both ways when it is convient.

It's a mixed bag. I'm sure that there were some picks where TD picked Smith's guy, but there were probably others where TD overruled him. The problem is knowing which are which, which is why I've continually said that my main problem is that many on here keep trying to oversimplify how a FO works.

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It's a mixed bag. I'm sure that there were some picks where TD picked Smith's guy, but there were probably others where TD overruled him. The problem is knowing which are which, which is why I've continually said that my main problem is that many on here keep trying to oversimplify how a FO works.

^^^ this ^^^

the GM/HC team fails together, but that doesn't mean they are equally at fault

hjerry likes this

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To me Dimi is the obvious culprit. He inherited a decent OLine and front seven from Reeves and McKay. Plus a few good skill players. Smitty went 56-24 with that foundation. Dimi totally fkd it up. When it was replaced with his acquisitions we went 10-22. Buddy got a head coach, two OCs, two DCs and a shtload of position coaches fired. Only got relieved of some of his duties. Should have been fired.

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The inverse is true as well. If smitty/Nolan were supposedly dictating to GM who to draft on a team so obviously deficient in areas such as pass rush, then that tells you GM didn't have enough backbone to deserve GM as well.

Except that's what a GM is supposed to do; let the HC get the players he wants. So it's not really the same at all.

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Except that's what a GM is supposed to do; let the HC get the players he wants. So it's not really the same at all.

No sir, sometimes the GM has to say no, and go get the best players out there to fit his vision of the team. Even The amateurs here saw the flaws of this team coming into past two seasons.

BTW...I don't buy into it one second that's how it all went down. I put the personnel moves 3x more on TD than I do Smitty or Nolan. The downward spiral of defense began the day of Julio trade, and you're blowing smoke up your tail if you think that was Smitty.

FalconFanSince1970 likes this

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So... a pair of SP nut huggers are trying to call out all of the TD nut huggers in regards to managing a franchise involved in playing a team sport all the while not realizing that the teamwork between the two of them (and the subtraction of Smitty) is already magical and an example of being greater than the sun of one's parts.

Got it.

I object to your use of the phrase "nut hugger." It just isn't necessary. We are all adults here.

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I object to your use of the phrase "nut hugger." It just isn't necessary. We are all adults here.

Didn't you say at one time that you were a judge?

Objection overruled.

:)

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I object to your use of the phrase "nut hugger." It just isn't necessary. We are all adults here.

I disagree with this, both on a physical level and a mental one...in fact, especially on a mental level. tongue.png

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Did he get the players he wanted?

Impossible for any of us to know 100%, I see no reason to think Smitty didn't though.

No, sometimes the GM has to say no, and go get the best players out there to fit his vision of the team. Even The amateurs here saw the flaws of this team coming into past two seasons.

BTW...I don't buy into it one second that's how it all went down. I put the personnel moves 3x more on TD than I do Smitty or Nolan. The downward spiral of defense began the day of Julio trade, and you're blowing smoke up your tail if you think that was Smitty.

Whether you buy into it or not doesn't matter too much. GM's don't just go rouge and force their HC's to use whatever players they happen to get. A large part of a HC's job is to lay out how he wants the team to be and work with the GM and Scouts to get that done. Occasionally a GM, like any scout, will fall in love with a guy and convince the HC to agree, but if those situations are common to the point the HC isn't getting the players he wants, there's a problem which quickly becomes evident, leading to the GM's termination. That's why you only hear about that happening on the odd situations like the Cowboys; because the GM can't be fired.

Thus, if TD was calling all the shots, why is he still here and Smitty's not? Surely you must see the correlation there.

vel likes this

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With all due respect, it matters a lot, to me.

Obviously. I just meant that doesn't change the rest of my post; how things actually happen. I'm not here to convince you, if you've already made up your mind.

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Obviously. I just meant that doesn't change the rest of my post; how things actually happen. I'm not here to convince you, if you've already made up your mind.

Your interpretation as to how things actually happened is just that, your interpretation. And I say that with a lot of respect for you as a poster.

And yes, I have made up my mind.

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Smitty was a defensive coordinator for years in Jacksonville and had always been on the defensive side of the ball with the Ravens and college. The fact that he couldnt tell us our defense and that our defense sucked for years tells me that TD and the front office were pulling the strings fielding and drafting defensive talent because defense is all Smitty knew his whole career. He couldnt have had much input. Do your research. You dont work with the long famed Ravens defense then go put crap on the field with your next team. Thats all TD's doing.

Now watch TD do the same thing with Quinn. Long famed defensive mind that will be given a bunch of crap to work with and it won't even be his fault if the defense isn't successful.

Alright. Honestly? So your reasoning for everything being TDs fault is that smith regularly fielded terrible defenses despite being a defensive minded coach?

You do realize that the one thing that has been stated over and over again is that TD takes everybody's opinion into consideration right?

He is great at working with others. Which is why bringing pioli in was excellent. TD might be the only gm in the NFL that could bring in someone like piolo and make it work. Seems like Quinn is fitting right in with them.

The only one I'm worried about now is shanahan

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So it's all Pioli and no TD? Then why did Pioli do poor in KC and all of a sudden be good here? Hm?

Same can be asked about Nolan. Why was he deemed a defensive genius until he got here? Truth is we as fans don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

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I normally wouldn't bother but English lessons are good for everyone. Compare is noting the similarities OR differences between two things. Contrast, basically, is just a more focused version of comparing, but the act of contrasting always falls within the scope of comparison.

Excellent explanation. I tire of seeing the "you can't compare" card used so much around here when it's just used to deny a comparison unfavorable to their position.
Lornoth and vel like this

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Excellent explanation. I tire of seeing the "you can't compare" card used so much around here when it's just used to deny a comparison unfavorable to their position.

Agreed. You can never, ever use a comparison to try and make your point easier to understand on here because someone will always go "You can't compare those two". Just because I'm comparing parts of two people doesn't mean I think they're equal overall. It's just a lazy out.

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I always get a kick out of suggestions that TD could get fired and replaced by Pioli. That's just silliness. It's both or neither.

Easily the funniest rumor of the offseason to me.

680 reported a month or so back (Steak Shapiro) that they had it from good sources that Pioli was insufferable and a lot of people in the organization did not care for him. May be true...may be BS but I at least appreciated that our local media was actually reporting things that weren't positive about staff and front office guys before they left Atlanta. The trend is for all reports to be nice as to not ruffle any feathers until a guy gets the boot.

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The only thing I can fault TD for is letting the ship sink without trying to grab the wheel. Like Vandy said earlier, sometimes you just have to say no and fix obvious flaws in spite of your HC disagreeing. Clearly he saw we needed better pass rushers over slow and fat run stoppers. But we don't know the effort he put into fixing it. We know he tried to trade up. We don't know who he tried to sign. TD just comes across as the guy that will let you hang yourself while he saves himself. I don't mind that. That's business.

But what Quinn has said so far this offseason tells me TD is very easy to work with and does not overstep his boundary.

I can't wait until we go 11-5 and yall give TD no credit and hand it all to Quinn and Pioli, even though Quinn has only spoken about working side by side with TD on building the roster, watching tape, scouting players, etc.

peoriabird, gazoo and Tuggle'2 like this

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Easily the funniest rumor of the offseason to me.

680 reported a month or so back (Steak Shapiro) that they had it from good sources that Pioli was insufferable and a lot of people in the organization did not care for him. May be true...may be BS but I at least appreciated that our local media was actually reporting things that weren't positive about staff and front office guys before they left Atlanta. The trend is for all reports to be nice as to not ruffle any feathers until a guy gets the boot.

I wouldn't doubt it, basically everybody disliked him in KC. Luckily him and TD are close friends so there's no problem there. One of the reasons they work so well together, Pioli can use his scouting prowess without being put in a position where his apparently less than likable personality won't do too much damage. TD certainly doesn't have a problem connecting with people. Couple that with Pioli's propensity for the trenches and TD's eye for skill positions and they're a match made in heaven.

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Wait, I thought it was TD getting run over by Smitty and making him pick draftees that were not position of need?

If you don't think GMs are listening to their HCs, you're huffing gas. TD wanted a passrusher in 2014, tried to move up for Dee Ford. Couldn't find a partner. Nolan and Smitty wanted more power in the middle. So TD got them Hageman, because their DL coach vouched for him. They then barely played him. When he did play, he made plays.

Who's fault is it? TD got them the player they wanted, they didn't use him.

I'm not saying TD doesn't deserve blame for our issues, but the hate around here is idiotic. Smith was a bigger liability.

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