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DirtyBird8711

Scott Pioli Named Most Influential Falcon, But Just How Influential Is He?

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That Green Bay offense was fantastic.....sometimes, defenses get beat up. The Seahawks struggled on defense against the Pats in the SB....does that mean they're "in need"?

And again, we signed a top of the market defensive end to further supplement our defense. And we had invested significant resources into the defense in the 18 months prior to that.

With all due respect, did you even watch the Super Bowl? The defense is the only reason they were even in that game. Forced three punts, far cry from what our defense did. Held the Patriots to a horrid 2.7 yards per rush and 6.3 yards per pass - bad, bad, BAD numbers. But the Patriots had the ball for far longer, despite the Seahawks defense forcing more turnovers (2 vs 1 INT). Even with all the chances they had, the Seahawks had the ball for six and a half minutes less. That's nearly half a quarter.

They also sacked Brady 3 times, hit him 7 other times, and had 4 PDs on top of the 2 INTs.

The two are not remotely comparable.

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I bet there will be a huge difference between the players we acquired under quinn vs under smith.

I bet if Quinn goes 56-23 or whatever like that 'horrible coach' smitty did his first 5 years we'll all be thrilled.

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We were decent against the worst offenses in the league, we flat fell on our faces when we played good teams.

So your saying that was Smittiot's stunt double at the combines helping scout in the stands with TD? How about holding smitty accountable for not placing a premium on pass rushers is that not feasible either?

I figure if MS is the defensive guru he was touted, he would atleast have some input on what the defense would look like.

Because we all know you can figure out who to draft at the combines. It's the end all, be all for player analysis.

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Right and we brought in a great slot wr in douglas, a hof in TG, ring of honor RB in turner, the best franchise qb ever in mr2, and a good change of pace in quizz, possibly the best wr ever, and a decent center in hawley.

On defense we brought in moore out of 2x as many picks. Maybe just maybe we had a suckazz coach.

Doubt that TD would pick defensive players in a vacuum.

Not gonna let you bait me into that one.

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I bet if Quinn goes 56-23 or whatever like that 'horrible coach' smitty did his first 5 years we'll all be thrilled.

Oh didn't you hear? If you don't win a SB your regular season record gets thrown out the window.

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I bet if Quinn goes 56-23 or whatever like that 'horrible coach' smitty did his first 5 years we'll all be thrilled.

Smitty is not horrible, he's not great either. I want a coach that gets us playoff wins.

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Because we all know you can figure out who to draft at the combines. It's the end all, be all for player analysis.

Good talk, but I'm just saying he was there for the scouting process. It's not like TD just said I'm picking so and so in a vacuum. The players TD picked for the offense fared better because mularky/koetter/robiskie had a better eye for talent.

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I'm wondering what the opinion is on the following group of players (as a group, not individually):

Sam Baker

Peria Jerry

Peter Konz

Lawrence Sidbury

Levine Toilolo

Anyone?

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Good talk, but I'm just saying he was there for the scouting process. It's not like TD just said I'm picking so and so in a vacuum. The players TD picked for the offense fared better because mularky/koetter/robiskie had a better eye for talent.

We're always good, Osiruz. You're a very good poster, even when wrong on Smitty.

😜

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Anyone?

This entire thread is pretty much about guys like them.

Was it coaching, scheme, bad luck, lack of desire, or lack of NFL talent? We all have our strong opinions, but truth is probably some combination of all of that.

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With all due respect, did you even watch the Super Bowl? The defense is the only reason they were even in that game. Forced three punts, far cry from what our defense did. Held the Patriots to a horrid 2.7 yards per rush and 6.3 yards per pass - bad, bad, BAD numbers. But the Patriots had the ball for far longer, despite the Seahawks defense forcing more turnovers (2 vs 1 INT). Even with all the chances they had, the Seahawks had the ball for six and a half minutes less. That's nearly half a quarter.

They also sacked Brady 3 times, hit him 7 other times, and had 4 PDs on top of the 2 INTs.

The two are not remotely comparable.

The example is simply one of countless. I thought NE specifically planned to hold the ball, dominate possession and beat Seattle 4 yards at a time....which is what they did. But again, the example is irrelevant....it can be Baltimore against SF or any of countless other examples where defenses didn't play up to their season-long level of play in single games. Getting trounced by Green Bay didn't mean we needed to gut the defense and start over....it meant we needed to get better. And given the development of young players and the addition of a top of the market free agent, it was perfectly reasonable to assume that it would.

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I said competent, not "high quality" as you and PFF define that. I also understand why you don't buy into that, and I do respect that point of view. But a one-dimensional T Smith (or Jeffrey or Cobb) + Roddy + TG for a couple of seasons and team would have still been a serious contending team for NFCC + a couple of decent 1st round picks and this is a better team today as well.

Again, I am assuming we hit on at least 3 of those 5 draft picks with this which is far from a sure thing. Like you alluded, we could have just as easily picked an AJ Jenkins or Greg Little as any of the guys I mentioned. And as I said before, I understand why TD did the trade and I'm over it and ready to move on, I just find it interesting to explore the 'what ifs'.

Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldnt have. That's sort of my point. If we end up with Mo Wilkerson (ignoring the scheme fit problem), AND Randall Cobb AND David DeCastro, AND those players developed in the same way that they have, we're probably a more balanced team right now. I'd have concerns about the erosion of the WR position but I suppose you could address that with Emmanuel Sanders or one of the WRs from 13/14.

That's the best case scenario, though. And I think what's more likely is we would have ended up with something Jonathan Baldwin, Martez Wilson and Reilly Reiff. Are we better right now had we drafted those guys? I don't think so.

And I think its instructional to look at how similarly situated teams actually drafted with those picks. Green Bay nailed the Cobb pick at 2011-64 but in the 1st round, they took Derek Sherrod...arguably the biggest disappointment drafted in that 1st round. The next year in the 1st round, they took Nick Perry...to this point a disappointing mediocre depth player. And thats one of the two or three best drafting teams in the NFL that got one quality pro out of those three premium picks. Thats the thing about the big hits in the draft game.....they aren't all that consistent. The best run teams in the league have wasted multiple 1st/2nd rounders over a period of 3-5 years. It's the nature of the business. So it's tough for me to be overly bitter about purchasing certainty by trading three lottery tickets in...because those three lottery tickets likely would fail to yield an asset as valuable as Julio.

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The example is simply one of countless. I thought NE specifically planned to hold the ball, dominate possession and beat Seattle 4 yards at a time....which is what they did. But again, the example is irrelevant....it can be Baltimore against SF or any of countless other examples where defenses didn't play up to their season-long level of play in single games. Getting trounced by Green Bay didn't mean we needed to gut the defense and start over....it meant we needed to get better. And given the development of young players and the addition of a top of the market free agent, it was perfectly reasonable to assume that it would.

So getting bounced by GB meant we needed to get explosive by drafting a WR? That is laughable. In the three seasons before the trade we were 33-15 without him. Since the trade we are 33-31 with him, so obviously that was not the right answer.

The right answer would have been to fill the obvious holes that were gonna plague us, like no front seven, no Oline, shaky corners, aging TE and RB. We would have been much better off using those five picks on Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Kevin Zeitler, Julius Thomas and Brandon Boykin. And don't start the hindsight bush it. Even I had four of those players on my radar.

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So getting bounced by GB meant we needed to get explosive by drafting a WR? That is laughable. In the three seasons before the trade we were 33-15 without him. Since the trade we are 33-31 with him, so obviously that was not the right answer.

The right answer would have been to fill the obvious holes that were gonna plague us, like no front seven, no Oline, shaky corners, aging TE and RB. We would have been much better off using those five picks on Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Kevin Zeitler, Julius Thomas and Brandon Boykin. And don't start the hindsight bush it. Even I had four of those players on my radar.

I swear to god you just copy and paste the same ******** response for everything you troll.

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Can yall let this guy? Some people will not be happy with TD still being here. Some people live in the land of hindsight. Some people think TD can do no wrong. Most people don't care. Let it go. Quinn, TD and Pioli are only three people that are leading this team.

The argument will always be divided by people who look forward and people who look backwards. You can't control point of view. Neither side has all of the facts. Some favor their opinion over actual facts to begin with. Agree to disagree and move on.

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I'm wondering what the opinion is on the following group of players (as a group, not individually):

Sam Baker

Peria Jerry

Peter Konz

Lawrence Sidbury

Levine Toilolo

Baker has been a better picks than he gets credit for. He has been a starter for 7 years, and when healthy he's a solid - but not great - starter. He was the 7th OT taken that year, and has performed as well as 2-3 of the guys taken ahead of him. Not a exactly a draft hit, but not the total bust that many people on here say. Disappointing? Yes. Bust? no.

On paper, Jerry was a great fit. A perfect scheme fit, considered good value where selected. Unfortunately hit career never got started, because he suffered a major injury in his 2nd game, that he seemingly never recovered from. Tough to blame the GM, unless you exact your GM to be clairvoyant and able to predict future injuries.

Konz has been a major disappointment. On paper at the time he looked like a good value selection who fit a need. It's not too late for him. Hopefully the ZBS will suit him.

Sid was a late 4th round pick. The picks didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time, as Biermann was a year more experienced and showed enough in his early years. He never developed in to the player we wants, but then most late 4th rounders never develop in to starters either.

Tiololo - I think he's pretty much lived up to his selection. A young, mid round selection, who plays like one.

In a nutshell, every GM in the NFL has a list of mediocre, disappointing and bad picks. Cherry picking a list of missed picks proved nothing, just as cherry picking a handful of good picks doesn't prove that someone is a great GM.

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1- baker: average player, too injury prone

2- jerry: injury prone bust

3- Konz: bust

4.toilolo: good pick for where he was taken

5.Sidbury: was a 4th rounder, didn't produce

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This entire thread is pretty much about guys like them.

Was it coaching, scheme, bad luck, lack of desire, or lack of NFL talent? We all have our strong opinions, but truth is probably some combination of all of that.

That group of players match the picks given up in order to acquire JJ. I used them as an example that just because we gave up those picks doesn't mean we gave up guaranteed contributors.

Granted, the same argument can be made in reverse. I just get tired of people that act as if having those picks back is done kind of guarantee that we would have between a better team.

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That group of players match the picks given up in order to acquire JJ. I used them as an example that just because we gave up those picks doesn't mean we gave up guaranteed contributors.

Granted, the same argument can be made in reverse. I just get tired of people that act as if having those picks back is done kind of guarantee that we would have between a better team.

Pretty lame.

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Some things I have noted over the years regarding our FO. First off, TD is on record as saying that when it comes to acquiring players, TD himself is the final decision maker. Second, Jay Adams...without realizing it...provided proof that TD signs players he decides are best for our team. DRob is the proof I am speaking of. Jay Adams said, DRob was not a fit for our D, which was run by BVG at the time. There is no way in which TD comes out smelling like roses on that one. Third, this idea that Smitty and Nolan chose to improve the inside pass rush instead of our outside rush...that's nonsense. Of -course- we wanted to improve our inside rush because we did not -have- one. It would have improved our outside rush as well, but here is an even more radical idea...why couldn't TD improve BOTH inside and outside pass rush, in the same offseason? And finally...I am not buying that TD is not still running our personnel department. Looking at all the FAs we signed, it looks a lot like the overpaying for players TD has been doing since he got here. Add in drafting CBs and WRs...arguably our deepest positions...when we do not even have viable starters elsewhere, like O line, MLB, TE...TD is still making the personnel decisions here, guys. Our lines will always get shorted as long as TD is here, because he loves his DBs.

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Heya DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry...when it comes to the Julio trade I get what you are saying concerning draft picks possibly being wasted. Here is the thing...with a aging O and D line, it was obvious the Julio trade was TD's last ditch effort to bring in a difference maker who could put our team over the top. Never mind we had won a ton of games with Jenkins at WR. TD said he looked into the future when it came to acquiring players. What kind of future could TD have possibly envisioned when giving up five picks for one? What we ended up with was an O line that cannot pass block long enough to make use of Ryan and Jones' talents. A D line that could not stop the run, even after adding Soliai and Jackson. And no valid replacements for star players we have lost like Abraham and Gonzalez. I still do not know how TD managed to keep his job, even at a supposed diminished capacity.

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