Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ATLFalcons11

Great Article - Nfl's Best Qb Situation

333 posts in this topic

I don't know about plenty, but you don't get much better ones than 2010 and 2012 with homefield throughout playoffs

I down grade 2008...MR was a rookie.

He did have talent regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about plenty, but you don't get much better ones than 2010 and 2012 with homefield throughout playoffs

Can you talk about the OL we had in 2010?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What players consisted of plenty of talent? That was the whole challenge.

This goes for you and midnite and I don't have an agenda to peddle. So that was inductive reasoning you used there. Lol

Sure you don't. You know who they are as well as i do.

Turner, Gonzo, Roddy, Julio, Abe, Lofton, Grimes,

Moore, Clabo, Spoon, Babs are/were all talented players during their times here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I down grade 2008...MR was a rookie.

He did have talent regardless.

I'm sort of ok with 2008. Our secondary was basic and Brian Williams going down made it worst.

Like you said he was a rookie as well. Turner was so beast mode that year but coaching screwed us that year too.

This was the 1st sign of no adjustments in the 2nd half. Ari DL knew our OL calls

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its so funny that through all this smoke, no one has denied or rebutted that FACT that over the course of the seasons of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Matt Ryan......it is ONLY Matt Ryan that we've all seen hurried, bludgeoned, beaten and harassed a fraction of a second after snaps almost year in and year out with below average running games most years, where Brady, Manning and Brees for most of their careers have been able to drop back into comfortable, clean pockets, set their feet and deliver the ball year in and year out with consistently good the great RBs breaking off long runs for them.

There have been exceptions in years where Ryan had decent pass protection or a good running game, I do recall a season Brady and Manning had some OlIne problems , but ON WHOLE, this trend is indisputable, we've all witnessed this with our own eyes.

Brady and Manning have enjoyed the same or better level of overall support most seasons, that Matt Ryan has had only one of his seasons in 2012. Just think if Ryan had that 2012 level of support each of his seasons like the others, he'd also have anSuper Bowl Ring or two by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. We have to look at coaching as well. The Falcoholic penned an awesome article yesterday that eviscerates this idea that Ryan has had as good of an organizational structure as say, Tom Brady has had his entire career.

Coaching, game planning, player utilization, play calling, scheming for teams playoffs, these are a very, very, very big deal that is ignored by some of these guys proclaiming Ryan has had same level of support as Brady and Manning by simply saying Ryan has had talent and throwing out a few names. Gonzo did not play hall of fame level his last few years here, he was very limited to a short passing game his last few seasons here, so proclaiming Ryan had a "hall of fame TE" ignores that salient fact. Turner was good for a couple of seasons, but no better a running back than Manning and Brady have had most every year.

Think about this, Ryan takes his team on his back all the way to the 2012 NFCCG and the last play call was diagnosed by San Francisco, they'd seen the lineup before and KNEW Roddy was going to get the ball where he did. All they had to do was bump Roddy hard before the ball got there and caused an incompletion which they did to perfection. That NEVER would have happend had Bellichik been calling the plays.

Can't argue as much on the coaching ...Smitty was ok but not elite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oline and defense were good enough to win 13 games 2x...no question we had the skill players during both instances.

Yup...if nothing else, last two years proved Matt didn't do it all by himself in 2008-2012.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sort of ok with 2008. Our secondary was basic and Brian Williams going down made it worst.

Like you said he was a rookie as well. Turner was so beast mode that year but coaching screwed us that year too.

This was the 1st sign of no adjustments in the 2nd half. Ari DL knew our OL calls

Coaching never screwed us in 13 win seasons...turnovers and injuries(Brian Williams/Turner) have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure you don't. You know who they are as well as i do.

Turner, Gonzo, Roddy, Julio, Abe, Lofton, Grimes,

Moore, Clabo, Spoon, Babs are/were all talented players during their times here.

You get a few people with differing opinions attacking you and you think everybody is like that. So, let's first pause and avoid the unnecessary sarcasm. This is a debate, not a fight over "he's my man because I slept with him first."

Secondly, if you're talking about 2010 we didn't have Julio...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coaching never screwed us in 13 win seasons...turnovers and injuries(Brian Williams/Turner) have.

Apologies I mentioned the Arizona playoff game so that's the game I was referring to with coaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You get a few people with differing opinions attacking you and you think everybody is like that. So, let's first pause and avoid the unnecessary sarcasm. This is a debate, not a fight over "he's my man because I slept with him first."

Secondly, if you're talking about 2010 we didn't have Julio...

2008-2012 is the discussion. And if not 'attacking' then you know the personnel here as well as I do.

You don't win 13 games with mediocre talent.

Mid-Nite-Toker likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup...if nothing else, last two years proved Matt didn't do it all by himself in 2008-2012.

Nobody can do it by himself, not Brady, not Rodgers, or whoever else so let's get that out the way. There's no such thing as by himself in football.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. We have to look at coaching as well. The Falcoholic penned an awesome article yesterday that eviscerates this idea that Ryan has had as good of an organizational structure as say, Tom Brady has had his entire career.

Coaching, game planning, player utilization, play calling, scheming for teams playoffs, these are a very, very, very big deal that is ignored by some of these guys proclaiming Ryan has had same level of support as Brady and Manning by simply saying Ryan has had talent and throwing out a few names. Gonzo did not play hall of fame level his last few years here, he was very limited to a short passing game his last few seasons here, so proclaiming Ryan had a "hall of fame TE" ignores that salient fact. Turner was good for a couple of seasons, but no better a running back than Manning and Brady have had most every year.

Think about this, Ryan takes his team on his back all the way to the 2012 NFCCG and the last play call was diagnosed by San Francisco, they'd seen the lineup before and KNEW Roddy was going to get the ball where he did. All they had to do was bump Roddy hard before the ball got there and caused an incompletion which they did to perfection. That NEVER would have happend had Bellichik been calling the plays.

this is where the whole QB debates get silly...when you have to tear down other players to try and say, 'SEE, MY QB DID THIS THIS AND THIS WITH LESS THAN YOUR QB!!!'

at the end of the day Ryan had a great RB, 2 great WRs, and a great TE at different points in his career. he hasn't had to play without a true #1 receiver aside from an injury riddled year his whole career, he started his career able to lean on a dominant running game, and while Mike Smith isn't the best coach in the world, when he first got here, he taught the fundamentals of game winning football for a bad team. whether or not he ranks with the best with these facts isn't relevant though...at the end of the day, the question comes down to, 'can you win with this guy' and 'how to win with this guy' and then you get the job done and win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sort of ok with 2008. Our secondary was basic and Brian Williams going down made it worst.

Like you said he was a rookie as well. Turner was so beast mode that year but coaching screwed us that year too.

This was the 1st sign of no adjustments in the 2nd half. Ari DL knew our OL calls

so it had nothing to do with the fumbled snap that put Arizona in the redzone or Brooking biting on a play action on 3rd and ******* 16???

ya put too much emphasis on coaching...sometimes players just fail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2008-2012 is the discussion. And if not 'attacking' then you know the personnel here as well as I do.

You don't win 13 games with mediocre talent.

The problem with that assumption is that your idea of talent may differ from mine.

So yes, I do know talent but is your idea the same as mine.

Next, you're lumping all the years together as if they aren't separate.

For example, you think the two elite teams from your posts were the 2010 team and the 2012 team.

I agree with the 2012 team but disagree with 2010. I ask what players with in regards to 2010 and you name Julio as one of them.

Lastly, there's a middle part in between elite (SB contender) and mediocre. There's a good team, above average team, etc. So we can avoid being extremists in our talk.

In conclusion, all I want to know is your opinion of the talent we had on the 2010 team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so it had nothing to do with the fumbled snap that put Arizona in the redzone or Brooking biting on a play action on 3rd and ******* 16???

ya put too much emphasis on coaching...sometimes players just fail

Where did I say it was the only reason?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2008-2012 is the discussion. And if not 'attacking' then you know the personnel here as well as I do.

You don't win 13 games with mediocre talent.

Or mediocre coaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with that assumption is that your idea of talent may differ from mine.

So yes, I do know talent but is your idea the same as mine.

Next, you're lumping all the years together as if they aren't separate.

For example, you think the two elite teams from your posts were the 2010 team and the 2012 team.

I agree with the 2012 team but disagree with 2010. I ask what players with in regards to 2010 and you name Julio as one of them.

Lastly, there's a middle part in between elite (SB contender) and mediocre. There's a good team, above average team, etc. So we can avoid being extremists in our talk.

In conclusion, all I want to know is your opinion of the talent we had on the 2010 team.

If you're wanting me to say Matt is an excellent QB, then yes, Matt is an excellent QB. I've never said otherwise.

My point in this thread is to the narrative that he's never had the talent here as other SB winning QBs have had. To that, I disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with that assumption is that your idea of talent may differ from mine.

So yes, I do know talent but is your idea the same as mine.

Next, you're lumping all the years together as if they aren't separate.

For example, you think the two elite teams from your posts were the 2010 team and the 2012 team.

I agree with the 2012 team but disagree with 2010. I ask what players with in regards to 2010 and you name Julio as one of them.

Lastly, there's a middle part in between elite (SB contender) and mediocre. There's a good team, above average team, etc. So we can avoid being extremists in our talk.

In conclusion, all I want to know is your opinion of the talent we had on the 2010 team.

MR has/had talent, quick release QB...his line does enough his wr/TE stats say so as well as his.

2010...nobody handicapped the Falcons like MR in the p/o. Turrible 2nd qtr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're wanting me to say Matt is an excellent QB, then yes, Matt is an excellent QB. I've never said otherwise.

My point in this thread is to the narrative that he's never had the talent here as other SB winning QBs have had. To that, I disagree.

LOL! I apologize in advance because I know you're about 15 or whatever pages into this thread and other than posting it I haven't been able to join in on the conversation.

So you're so knee deep in people attacking you that you can't see that I'm asking a simple question about one team in 2010.

I haven't now or in the past trolled you or anybody. So I'm not asking if you think Matt Ryan is an excellent QB.

I'm simply asking what I questioned above and on the multiple other posts that I have sent your way in hopes of a discussion.

Frankly, I'm tired of unnecessarily defending myself but I was intrigued by the debate and convo that I wanted to be a part of it.

If you don't want to answer the question about that particular team, then fine. Am I at least correct in assuming the two teams you think were enough to win a SB was in 2010 and 2012?

gazoo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2008-2012 is the discussion. And if not 'attacking' then you know the personnel here as well as I do.

You don't win 13 games with mediocre talent.

if you have a QB that can raise the level of the coaching staff and players around him, sure you can. Matter of fact, Matt Ryan proved it can be done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're wanting me to say Matt is an excellent QB, then yes, Matt is an excellent QB. I've never said otherwise.

My point in this thread is to the narrative that he's never had the talent here as other SB winning QBs have had. To that, I disagree.

And you're still overlooking Oline, defense and coaching. You seem to be saying that skill position players on offense is enough and it's just not.

Rodgers, in his first NFCCG, had a line of 17/30/244/0/2 QB rating of 55. No TDs 2 picks-his D bailed him out. Ryan has never had a D that could bail him out.

Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Year Peyton won the Super Bowl, he had a playoff game with a line of 15/30/150/0/2 QB rating of 39.6. No TDs, 2 picks, D carried him that game. Ryan has never had that.

You can do the same thing with coaching.

gazoo and TeamPlayer1 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its so funny that through all this smoke, no one has denied or rebutted that FACT that over the course of the seasons of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Matt Ryan......it is ONLY Matt Ryan that we've all seen hurried, bludgeoned, beaten and harassed a fraction of a second after snaps almost year in and year out with below average running games most years, where Brady, Manning and Brees for most of their careers have been able to drop back into comfortable, clean pockets, set their feet and deliver the ball year in and year out with consistently good the great RBs breaking off long runs for them.

There have been exceptions in years where Ryan had decent pass protection or a good running game, I do recall a season Brady and Manning had some OlIne problems , but ON WHOLE, this trend is indisputable, we've all witnessed this with our own eyes.

Brady and Manning have enjoyed the same or better level of overall support most seasons, that Matt Ryan has had only one of his seasons in 2012. Just think if Ryan had that 2012 level of support each of his seasons like the others, he'd also have anSuper Bowl Ring or two by now.

This remains unchallenged through countless pages.......because you all know it's true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MR has/had talent, quick release QB...his line does enough his wr/TE stats say so as well as his.

2010...nobody handicapped the Falcons like MR in the p/o. Turrible 2nd qtr.

In 2010 our defense didn't force a punt although the missed TD to Jenkins in the end zone and the interception did us in. Those turnovers will happen and they can't be overcome when the other team is still scoring.

My bad when I mentioned OL I was thinking about 2011.

Mid-Nite-Toker likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites