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ATLFalcons11

Great Article - Nfl's Best Qb Situation

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I think I tend to agree with most of what you wrote here. I'm not sure if Ryan is just very good, or something more than that, because I've never felt like he's really had the support. Perhaps that means I'm making excuses for him, but I felt like in 2012 we were finally seeing what Ryan was capable of, and then it all sort of fell apart.

I definitely agree with the importance of coaching. You cited the example of how the 49ers knew what was coming in the 2013 NFCCG, and the same thing happened with that interception in the 2015 Superbowl. A lot of people criticized Carroll for the pass play in that situation, but I think he explained his reasoning very well, and that it was a good call. The difference was that the Patriots read the play and played it just right. Butler said afterward that they had practiced for that very play, and was able to read and react quickly because he was prepared. That's good coaching (or else the Patriots know what's coming through some other method).

I wonder how many years some have to watch the Brady's, Brees and Mannings of the NFL drop back into a safe, clean pocket with plenty of time to throw, or hand off to a running back who constantly gets big chunks of yards, while at the same time year after year watching Ryan drop back and get the living snot beat out of him snap aft snap under incredible duress for entire seasons, with running games that often are pedestrian at best and not be able to recognize the gross disparity in support over a long period of time?

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The defense was not terrible in '12. The only teams we had problems with were read option teams. We were top 5-10 in a few key categories that season. 3rd down was our only real problem with that defense. We were 10th pass D. 5th in points allowed. 5th int's. 6th in turnover ratio(+13). Yes we didn't have big sack numbers but we were top 10 in other key categories. In 2012 the defense won a few games the offense didn't play as well. Asante's pick 6 basically won the game against Oakland. Spoon knocking rg3 out against Washington helped us. The Seahawks were a read option team as well. Like I said before the only teams we had problems with that year defensively were read option teams.

The offensive turnovers hurt us in the niner game. 2 key turnovers in scoring position. THATS what lost the nfcCG. And we STILL had a chance to win.

We had what you would call an opportunistic defense. Similar to the saints defense that won the SB. They got a lot of turnovers. Not a lot of sacks but got a lot of pressure. We got a lot of pressure in 12.

Losing Abe to an ankle injury really hurt. Think if Abe was healthy for that game, he makes the one or two plays we needed on D to win. And they would have steamrolled the ravens in the Super Bowl.

If Ryan plays as well the next time he's in the playoffs as he did in 12 and the Falcons actually have a pass rush, it's gonna be fun. That could happen as soon as this year.

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Does anybody remember early in Ryan's tenure when we would keep it close down to the last possession, then just count on Matt to bail the entire team out and go win the game?

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Does anybody remember early in Ryan's tenure when we would keep it close down to the last possession, then just count on Matt to bail the entire team out and go win the game?

Give him a decent Oline and it won't be just a memory.

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Losing Abe to an ankle injury really hurt. Think if Abe was healthy for that game, he makes the one or two plays we needed on D to win. And they would have steamrolled the ravens in the Super Bowl.

I totally agree with you. This issue screams of the tenuous nature of this team as a whole even in 2012. We lose one pass rusher and that's it, we have no other way of getting it done.

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Neither has Peyton had a great defense in Indy. Only once did he have a pretty good defense and that was the year they won the SB. We've had defenses adequate enough to get to a SB. We didn't make in '12 because the read was tearing up the league that year and we didn't have an answer for it in the NFCCG. As for our olines they weren't the best but they weren't the worst either. Only the last 2 years will I say the oline was terrible.

Peyton is also arguably the greatest QB ever to play the game. Our defense was actually pretty bad in 2012. The offense 100% carried the team except maybe a few games like the Oakland game but that isn't an accomplishment at all. The Raiders are terrible. I said Ryan has never had a GREAT defense, and that's true, he hasn't. He's had a few good o-lines, but never anything like the Dallas o-line last year or Brady's o-lines in 2003 and 2004.

Bottom line, I think Ryan is a great player, he isn't elite, but he's great. The reason I say he isn't elite is because I think elite players have the ability to be successful no matter where they are and what situation they're in. A lot of if is physical gifts and a lot of it is just gifted skills for the game. Ryan is limited. He can't create seperation from pass rushers. In order for Ryan to be at his best, he needs good pass protection, and he needs great coaching around the team. But that's ok, guys like Manning, Rodgers, Luck, and Brees are extremely rare. I'll take Ryan any day. Reality is, we aren't going to find somebody better than him and we would have to be EXTREMELY fortunate/lucky to find the replacement when he retires.

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The defense was not terrible in '12. The only teams we had problems with were read option teams. We were top 5-10 in a few key categories that season. 3rd down was our only real problem with that defense. We were 10th pass D. 5th in points allowed. 5th int's. 6th in turnover ratio(+13). Yes we didn't have big sack numbers but we were top 10 in other key categories. In 2012 the defense won a few games the offense didn't play as well. Asante's pick 6 basically won the game against Oakland. Spoon knocking rg3 out against Washington helped us. The Seahawks were a read option team as well. Like I said before the only teams we had problems with that year defensively were read option teams.

The offensive turnovers hurt us in the niner game. 2 key turnovers in scoring position. THATS what lost the nfcCG. And we STILL had a chance to win.

We had what you would call an opportunistic defense. Similar to the saints defense that won the SB. They got a lot of turnovers. Not a lot of sacks but got a lot of pressure. We got a lot of pressure in 12.

The refs won that game for the Niners.

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Does anybody remember early in Ryan's tenure when we would keep it close down to the last possession, then just count on Matt to bail the entire team out and go win the game?

but wait a minute, I thought he couldn't elevate his team wi the game on the line....//sarcasm off

I think Matty Ice had more come from behind wins than any other active NFL player for a few years there. This gets forgotten and drown out by the narrative he can't elevate his teammates.

One single year of his career, Iceman has the kind of overall support Brady and Manning have has most of their careers, and Iceman takes us 10 yards from a Super Bowl.

How can so many here say with a straight face that Ryan has had anywher near the same overall level of support from coaching on down to pass protection as The Brady's, Brees and Mannimgs have enjoyed after watching those guys drop back into crisp clean pockets year after year, with strong running game support year after year, then watch Ryan drop back year after year under vicious, violent pass rushes getting the snot kicked out of him with average at best running games most years???? It's patently absurd.

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He was still a weapon imo. If the other team has to worry about a pkayer or fears him in some capacity he's a weapon. TG was a 3rd down weapon. Even tho teams knew it was coming. And he still always found a way to get open as slow as he was. He used his body well. He wasn't the guy he was in KC but he was very much still a weapon in Ryan's arsenal. He wasn't the big playmaker of old but weapon he was.

I can see your point of view. I think the defintion of a weapon is left open for interpretation to mean a lot of different things. My idea of a weapon is someone who you have to account for and game plan around every game. TG was used more situationally than consistently (whether by design or not) which that is my belief on it. But like I said, everyone's opinion of a weapon is different.

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Does anybody remember early in Ryan's tenure when we would keep it close down to the last possession, then just count on Matt The two Matt's to bail the entire team out and go win the game?

Would drive me crazy seeing Smith try to hang on to a two point lead instead of going for the kill. Matt and Matt were a deadly combo that could be relied on to pull it out, but many close games should not have gotten to that point in the first place.

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Since he's never had the level of support all the way from coaching, defense, play calling, scheming, creativity, running game, pass protection that Brady and Manning enjoy almost annually it's hard to draw any conclusions on if he can do same as them with same support.

In fact, the one year, in 2012, that Ryan got a reasonable level of overall support he took his team on his back all the way to a 10 yard dropped pass of a Super Bowl. That was with Smitty as his head coach, Dirk Koetter as his OC and Mike Nolan as his DC.

I cant wait to see what our awesome NFL QB does with a highy competent coaching staff running all phases of the game. I think much of the unreasonable criticism directed at him for the shortcomings of those around him will start to be replaced with words like "elite" and discussions of how he elevates those around him.

Exactly; plus I can't imagine how Harry Douglas having a 1,000 yard season as a number three WR pushed into the One spot is not elevating the game of players around him...

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Losing Abe to an ankle injury really hurt. Think if Abe was healthy for that game, he makes the one or two plays we needed on D to win. And they would have steamrolled the ravens in the Super Bowl.

If Ryan plays as well the next time he's in the playoffs as he did in 12 and the Falcons actually have a pass rush, it's gonna be fun. That could happen as soon as this year.

Absolutely. I also think losing turner in the second half was the other key factor because SF played us completely different without the threat of turner. 2 key players that weren't a factor for us.

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I can see your point of view. I think the defintion of a weapon is left open for interpretation to mean a lot of different things. My idea of a weapon is someone who you have to account for and game plan around every game. TG was used more situationally than consistently (whether by design or not) which that is my belief on it. But like I said, everyone's opinion of a weapon is different.

I do think teams game planned to take TG away but it always left julio or roddy. If you tried to take julio TG had a big game. That was the beauty of that team they were truly interchangeable moving parts. I feel your definition of a weapon. I think teams tried taking TG away. Especially on 3rd. We just didn't need him to do anything deep. When you have a threat for each level(short, intermediate, and long) you're hard to deal with. Teams would double team and bracket TG. That's why I call him a weapon. If they left him alone we'd just TG all the way down the field lol. I don't know any defense that just said forget TG. We'll stop Roddy and Julio. As a DC would you disregard TG because he was old and slow? His hands were still the same.

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The refs won that game for the Niners.

The refs didn't commit two turnovers in scoring position. If all we got was 2 fg's in those situations we still win 30-28. Can't blame the refs on that. If you're talking about the last play on the 10 it shouldn't have even come down to that. So the refs are not to blame. Turnovers hurt us. They always hurt in big games like that and we had 2. 49ers won the turnover battle.

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Peyton is also arguably the greatest QB ever to play the game. Our defense was actually pretty bad in 2012. The offense 100% carried the team except maybe a few games like the Oakland game but that isn't an accomplishment at all. The Raiders are terrible. I said Ryan has never had a GREAT defense, and that's true, he hasn't. He's had a few good o-lines, but never anything like the Dallas o-line last year or Brady's o-lines in 2003 and 2004.

Bottom line, I think Ryan is a great player, he isn't elite, but he's great. The reason I say he isn't elite is because I think elite players have the ability to be successful no matter where they are and what situation they're in. A lot of if is physical gifts and a lot of it is just gifted skills for the game. Ryan is limited. He can't create seperation from pass rushers. In order for Ryan to be at his best, he needs good pass protection, and he needs great coaching around the team. But that's ok, guys like Manning, Rodgers, Luck, and Brees are extremely rare. I'll take Ryan any day. Reality is, we aren't going to find somebody better than him and we would have to be EXTREMELY fortunate/lucky to find the replacement when he retires.

The defense wasn't bad at all in '12. Top 5-10 in a few key categories that season. The defense came thru in Oakland, Carolina, philly, Wash, NO(5 picks on Brees), Arizona, NY and you obviously forgot about Denver. If it wasn't for asante's pick 6 we lose to Oakland as bad as they were. They were driving before the pick. Ryan had multiple picks that game. If Oakland was so terrible, and they were, what does that say for the offense that day? It's still the nfl. NO team should be taken lightly.

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In 2012, the Falcons defense was #26 in turnovers. I think your statement "our defense wasn't that terrible" is spot on.

We weren't 26 gazoo. We had 20 int's that year, good for 5th best. The top team had 24 int's. 15 ff's and 11 recoveries. Tied for 13th. We were +13 turnover ratio that year, good for 6th. New England was the best with +25 and that's because Brady didn't have multiple pick games like Ryan did. How could we be 26th in turnovers? Ryan threw 14 int's that year so at 26 how could we even be +13? If we are in the plus that means we took the ball away more than we gave it away. 20+11 is 31 takeaways on the year. That means the offense gave the ball away 18 times to be +13(14 int's and 4 fumbles lost). If we were just 26th then it was 25 other teams that took the ball away phenomenally. There were teams that only had 7 int's on the year and we had 20 yet we were only 6 spots from last in turnovers? That doesn't add up brother.
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We weren't 26 gazoo. We had 20 int's that year, good for 5th best. The top team had 24 int's. 15 ff's and 11 recoveries. Tied for 13th. We were +13 turnover ratio that year, good for 6th. New England was the best with +25 and that's because Brady didn't have multiple pick games like Ryan did. How could we be 26th in turnovers? Ryan threw 14 int's that year so at 26 how could we even be +13? If we are in the plus that means we took the ball away more than we gave it away. 20+11 is 31 takeaways on the year. That means the offense gave the ball away 18 times to be +13(14 int's and 4 fumbles lost). If we were just 26th then it was 25 other teams that took the ball away phenomenally. There were teams that only had 7 int's on the year and we had 20 yet we were only 6 spots from last in turnovers? That doesn't add up brother.

Fatboi, you got me on the turnover rating, I stand corrected. That does impact my opinion *of our regular season defense becuase turnovers are huge for a defense. I'll take back that we didn't suck that bad during the regular season, we weren't dominant by any stretch of the imagination, but we played alright overall.

I just wish the 2012 regular season defense showed up in the 2012 playoffs.

Our offense continued to play well from regular season into the 2012 playoffs and Matty Ice had the playoffs #2 QB rating and was #2 in passing yards per game, while our defense caved giving up more points per game than all but two playoff teams, and more yards per game than all but 3.

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My fellow Falcons fans, what we have done in past years is no longer relevant. Believe me I have seen every one of them. The only thing that matters to me is this year and I hope some of you feel the same. I am optimistic.

Tuggle'2 and kiwifalcon like this

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My fellow Falcons fans, what we have done in past years is no longer relevant. Believe me I have seen every one of them. The only thing that matters to me is this year and I hope some of you feel the same. I am optimistic.

Preach!

Lots of wisdom in that there.

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In 2012, the Falcons defense was #26 in turnovers. I think your statement "our defense wasn't that terrible" is spot on.

huh? In 2012 Falcons were Top 10 in defensive turnovers. Also Top 10 in PPG.

Do you just make up crap as you go?

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but wait a minute, I thought he couldn't elevate his team wi the game on the line....//sarcasm off

I think Matty Ice had more come from behind wins than any other active NFL player for a few years there. This gets forgotten and drown out by the narrative he can't elevate his teammates.

One single year of his career, Iceman has the kind of overall support Brady and Manning have has most of their careers, and Iceman takes us 10 yards from a Super Bowl.

How can so many here say with a straight face that Ryan has had anywher near the same overall level of support from coaching on down to pass protection as The Brady's, Brees and Mannimgs have enjoyed after watching those guys drop back into crisp clean pockets year after year, with strong running game support year after year, then watch Ryan drop back year after year under vicious, violent pass rushes getting the snot kicked out of him with average at best running games most years???? It's patently absurd.

In 2010, Brady was sacked 2 less than Ryan was. In 2011, Brady sacked 6 more than Ryan. In 2012, Ryan was sacked 1 more than Brady. Over the course of those 3 seasons,Matt was sacked less than Brady in total.

The fact is, until the last two seasons, Matt's been in bottom 25th percentile in QB sacks throughout his career.

You need to find a better narrative.

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My fellow Falcons fans, what we have done in past years is no longer relevant. Believe me I have seen every one of them. The only thing that matters to me is this year and I hope some of you feel the same. I am optimistic.

jeJ3g2a.jpg

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Wait a minute Sparky, it's almost 11pm, does your mom know you are still up?

mom's been gone a long time, probably before you were born.

The question is....Do you get anything right?

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