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ATLFalcons11

Great Article - Nfl's Best Qb Situation

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Some of you guys really lose your grip when it comes to differing opinions on our QB. Matt's a Top 8 QB, but he's not Top 1, at least not yet.

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that not one person in this thread ever claimed that Ryan was a "Top 1" QB. Feel free to prove me wrong.

I swear, god forbid anybody raise a word against the "transcendent QB" narrative on this forum, lest the Realist Objecticons descend upon us, blustering, "Why... how dare you claim that Matt Ryan is better than Brady and Manning!" Talk about losing grip.

Fact is, Brady and Manning both needed their fair share of help - whether it was offensive weapons, a running game, defense and/or coaching - to achieve their successes, just as Ryan or any other pocket passer would. Why this fact bunches the panties of certain members here so, I'll never know. Aaron Rodgers is the closest thing there has ever been to a transcendent QB, and even he needed his top 5 defense to bail him out of an awful NFCCG performance to reach and win a Super Bowl.

Tell you what - somebody find me a Super Bowl winning QB in the salary cap era whose defense gave up 24 or more points in every single postseason game that year - as Matt Ryan's defense has in every single post season game he has ever played in - and maybe I'll start believing in magical transcendent QB superheroes.

That's a 32 points allowed per game average Ryan has had to work against. H*ll, I'd be surprised if somebody could find a QB that even made it to a Super Bowl with a postseason defense like that, let alone win it.

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I think there's a real good chance that the Falcons return to the playoffs this year and Ryan carries them on a deep playoff run.

People forget what the offense was like before all the Oline injuries last year. If the Oline is healthy, Ryan and Co will put up some outrageous numbers. I said 5000 and 40 just tweak the haters, think 4800 and 35 are reasonable goals.

If Turner and Abe had been healthy in 2012, I'm convinced the Falcons win the super bowl. They have younger passrushers and RBs in place, could be a very fun year.

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How many NFL QBs have had talent to work with such as Gonzales, Roddy, Julio and Turner?

Not a diss on Matt, but you guys need to tone the homerism down a notch or two.

Matt doesn'r really need all of that. What he needs is what all pocket passers need to be on super bowl winning teams, a great defense and great pass protection

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Gonzales was a weapon, only an idiot would claim otherwise, or to infer this was a better offense without him.

Ryan's been surrounded by weapons every year except 2013, the year of injuries. That's not a criticism, he's a darn good QB when given the right pieces, it's just a fact.

Ryan has had weapons, but he hasn't had support. There's a difference. Ryan has NEVER had a great offensive line and he has NEVER had a defense that could be described as "great."

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These posts drive me crazy, before Nolan came here everyone regarded him as one of the best. What changed?

Smitty and Nolan not being able to get on the same page. Smittys background is defense, and last year they were contradicting each other during training camp on what kind of defense we were running, an ominous sign of what was ahead.

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Ryan has had weapons, but he hasn't had support. There's a difference. Ryan has NEVER had a great offensive line and he has NEVER had a defense that could be described as "great."

When you look at the qbs that won superbowls they had a good o line and a good defense. Ryan has never had those things

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When you look at the qbs that won superbowls they had a good o line and a good defense. Ryan has never had those things

Yep, and yet Ryan's a failure and a choker because he's 1-3 in the playoffs. Key word there is "he". The rest of the team has zero relevance

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It was funny seeing Manning in his prime struggle when his Oline used to get blasted by Jacksonville's dline. Either Manning nor Brady would win more than one or 2 more games than Matt with the same supporting cast or coaches. Hate all you want but Matt's a **** good QB.

Also what has Rodgers done when he doesn't have the perfect situation of Defense and protection? Nothing, that's what.

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Let me premise this by saying I absolutely love Gonzalez. In the day he was absolutely a weapon, and is the best TE to ever player the game. That being said, his better days were behind him when he got to us. I wouldn't classify him as a weapon per se, more so a safety valve. That man was more clutch in 3rd down than anyone else on this team. However gaining first downs and being a weapon, while having connections, do not create a weapon alone.

He was still a weapon imo. If the other team has to worry about a pkayer or fears him in some capacity he's a weapon. TG was a 3rd down weapon. Even tho teams knew it was coming. And he still always found a way to get open as slow as he was. He used his body well. He wasn't the guy he was in KC but he was very much still a weapon in Ryan's arsenal. He wasn't the big playmaker of old but weapon he was.
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Ryan has had weapons, but he hasn't had support. There's a difference. Ryan has NEVER had a great offensive line and he has NEVER had a defense that could be described as "great."

Neither has Peyton had a great defense in Indy. Only once did he have a pretty good defense and that was the year they won the SB. We've had defenses adequate enough to get to a SB. We didn't make in '12 because the read was tearing up the league that year and we didn't have an answer for it in the NFCCG. As for our olines they weren't the best but they weren't the worst either. Only the last 2 years will I say the oline was terrible.
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Neither has Peyton had a great defense in Indy. Only once did he have a pretty good defense and that was the year they won the SB. We've had defenses adequate enough to get to a SB. We didn't make in '12 because the read was tearing up the league that year and we didn't have an answer for it in the NFCCG. As for our olines they weren't the best but they weren't the worst either. Only the last 2 years will I say the oline was terrible.

Our defense sucked in 2012. We masked it in the regular season but got exposed in the playoffs. Our lack of pass rush was our biggest fault. Look at the 2nd half vs the Seahawks. They abandoned the run and we couldn't stop them. 49ers the read option killed us. As well as our inability to cover the middle of the field. Matt has never had a defense that could steal him a game.

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Our defense sucked in 2012. We masked it in the regular season but got exposed in the playoffs. Our lack of pass rush was our biggest fault. Look at the 2nd half vs the Seahawks. They abandoned the run and we couldn't stop them. 49ers the read option killed us. As well as our inability to cover the middle of the field. Matt has never had a defense that could steal him a game.

The defense was not terrible in '12. The only teams we had problems with were read option teams. We were top 5-10 in a few key categories that season. 3rd down was our only real problem with that defense. We were 10th pass D. 5th in points allowed. 5th int's. 6th in turnover ratio(+13). Yes we didn't have big sack numbers but we were top 10 in other key categories. In 2012 the defense won a few games the offense didn't play as well. Asante's pick 6 basically won the game against Oakland. Spoon knocking rg3 out against Washington helped us. The Seahawks were a read option team as well. Like I said before the only teams we had problems with that year defensively were read option teams.

The offensive turnovers hurt us in the niner game. 2 key turnovers in scoring position. THATS what lost the nfcCG. And we STILL had a chance to win.

We had what you would call an opportunistic defense. Similar to the saints defense that won the SB. They got a lot of turnovers. Not a lot of sacks but got a lot of pressure. We got a lot of pressure in 12.

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The defense was not terrible in '12. The only teams we had problems with were read option teams. We were top 5-10 in a few key categories that season. 3rd down was our only real problem with that defense. We were 10th pass D. 5th in points allowed. 5th int's. 6th in turnover ratio(+13). Yes we didn't have big sack numbers but we were top 10 in other key categories. In 2012 the defense won a few games the offense didn't play as well. Asante's pick 6 basically won the game against Oakland. Spoon knocking rg3 out against Washington helped us. The Seahawks were a read option team as well. Like I said before the only teams we had problems with that year defensively were read option teams.

The offensive turnovers hurt us in the niner game. 2 key turnovers in scoring position. THATS what lost the nfcCG. And we STILL had a chance to win.

We had what you would call an opportunistic defense. Similar to the saints defense that won the SB. They got a lot of turnovers. Not a lot of sacks but got a lot of pressure. We got a lot of pressure in 12.

In 2012, the Falcons defense was #26 in turnovers. I think your statement "our defense wasn't that terrible" is spot on.

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or even just decent....give him a top 15 rated oline

We get into this separating out one part of the whole in specific years that then you have arguments from the Ryan critics how over his career he's had a good defense or good players, Ryan's situation is he's never had the "overall support" of the QBs who have won Super Bowls where year in and year out, with few exceptions, the Mannings and Brady's have enjoyed.

2012 was the only year Ryan really had most of the elements running on all cylinders but he STILL only had a decent defense, he's never had a dominant defense ever. Ryan finally had online play in 2012 like Manning and Brady have enjoyed most of their careers. But Ryan also had Smitty as opposed to Bellichick and most here totally ignore the advantage Brady had when comparing.

I tire of reading posters pretend Ryan has had the same level of overall support Manning and Brady have enjoyed *throughout their careers*. Sure, certain components in certain years were as good, but on whole, *throughout the whole of their careers* Ryan has had far less support except one year, 2012.

In 2012, when Ryan did finally have a decent level of support, he took us one play from the Super Bowl. Also, after the NFCCG, the 49ers said they knew what play were were going to call which gave them an advantage in stopping it. That NEVER would have happen to a Bellichick run team.

You want to argue what lost us the 2012 NFCCG, look no further than the 49ers knowing what play were were going to call that ultimately lost the game. That's coaching folks.

There is no question in my mind that if Ryan had good online play, a good defense, a decent running game most years of his career like Brady and Manning, Ryan would have delivered us the Lombardi by now. Ryan proved he doesn't need these elements to all be dominating, just not pathetic.

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We get into this separating out one part of the whole in specific years that then you have arguments from the Ryan critics how over his career he's had a good defense or good players, Ryan's situation is he's never had the "overall support" of the QBs who have won Super Bowls where year in and year out, with few exceptions, the Mannings and Brady's have overall support.

2012 was the only year Ryan really had most of the elements running on all cylinders but he STILL only had a decent defense, he's never had a dominant defense ever. Ryan finally had online play in 2012 like Manning and Brady have enjoyed most of their careers. But Ryan also had Smitty as opposed to Bellichick and most here totally ignore the advantage Brady had when comparing.

I tire of reading posters pretend Ryan has had the same level of support Manning and Brady have enjoyed throughout their careers. Sure, certain components in certain years were as good, but on whole, throughout the whole of their careers, Ryan has had far less support except one year, 2012 when Ryan finally had what the other have most every year.

In 2012, when Ryan did finally have a decent level of support, he took us one play from the Super Bowl. Also, after the NFCCG, the 49ers said they knew what play were were going to call which gave them an advantage in stopping it. That NEVER would have happen to a Bellichick run team.

You want to argue what lost us the 2012 NFCCG, look no further than the 49ers knowing what play were were going to call that ultimately lost the game. That's coaching folks.

There is no question in my mind that if Ryan had good online play, a good defense, a decent running game most years of his career like Brady and Manning, Ryan would have delivered us the Lombardi by now. Ryan proved he doesn't need these elements to all be dominating, just not pathetic.

I think I tend to agree with most of what you wrote here. I'm not sure if Ryan is just very good, or something more than that, because I've never felt like he's really had the support. Perhaps that means I'm making excuses for him, but I felt like in 2012 we were finally seeing what Ryan was capable of, and then it all sort of fell apart.

I definitely agree with the importance of coaching. You cited the example of how the 49ers knew what was coming in the 2013 NFCCG, and the same thing happened with that interception in the 2015 Superbowl. A lot of people criticized Carroll for the pass play in that situation, but I think he explained his reasoning very well, and that it was a good call. The difference was that the Patriots read the play and played it just right. Butler said afterward that they had practiced for that very play, and was able to read and react quickly because he was prepared. That's good coaching (or else the Patriots know what's coming through some other method).

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