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Great Article - Nfl's Best Qb Situation

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Always cracks me up when people list 50 something year-old Tony "10 YPC" Gonzalez as a "weapon." Dude's longest play from scrimmage as a Falcon was like 30 yards.

Also amusing how Ryan's yards, TDs, YPC and passer rating all went up - while his INTs and sacks went down - the year after Gonzo finally retired. Guess he wasn't quite the "crutch" some here made him out to be.

Ryan had exactly one season where you could possibly, maybe, say he was "surrounded" by weapons - 2012. And even that's a stretch, as his running game by that point was led by a washed up, bloated sub-4 YPC drunk who would go on to never touch an NFL football on gameday again.

Before that 2012 season, Julio was just a rookie who spent a good chunk of the season either battling injury or the steep NFL WR learning curve. After it, Both he and Roddy were missing significant time on the IR, with Roddy in particular no longer able to separate when he was on the field, posting a YPC average lower than most starting TEs.

What tickles me the most, however, is how the folks who throw around this "surrounded by elite weapons" nonsense are the same clowns who are constantly parroting insipid, made-for-ESPN terms and catchphrases like "elite" and "swag" and "got a little dog in 'em," as if they had actual meaning in a real world football discussion. Bless their little hearts, these poor schmucks honestly believe that the verbal diarrhea that spews so freely from their mouths is actual analysis.

"Derp! To heck with your stats! Tom Brady wins Lombardis simply because he has magic football super powers!"

:lol:

+10

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I'm feeling some kind of weird disconnect here, but perhaps I'm thinking of a coach who couldn't get anything out of a long-past-his-prime 2nd rounder, a somewhat over-achieving 5th rounder who'd be driving a tractor if not for football, two guys who went to sleep after getting big free agent contracts, a manchild rookie who was slow to learn the scheme, and a bevy of no-name rotational backup guys.

.

.

Yeah. Everyone has a story. What I'm saying is if we had a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round receivers, who never become good....Ryan would share some of that blame...with UDFA's, not so much.

Our D had 2 supposedly requested FA's, who cost good money, a very consistent penetrating DT, a rookie with talent, etc. There's a difference between a lack of performing talent, vs a lack of the talent to really be on an NFL team.

I'm saying coaches or QBs/systems can make middling talent look a lot better, but nothing makes poor talent look good. Soliai, Babs, Umenyiora, and even Jackson aren't UDFA level talent...they're legit NFL talent (not pro bowl talent, but legit), and didn't look like it. That's when blame starts coming in.

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Always cracks me up when people list 50 something year-old Tony "10 YPC" Gonzalez as a "weapon." Dude's longest play from scrimmage as a Falcon was like 30 yards.

Also amusing how Ryan's yards, TDs, YPC and passer rating all went up - while his INTs and sacks went down - the year after Gonzo finally retired. Guess he wasn't quite the "crutch" some here made him out to be.

Ryan had exactly one season where you could possibly, maybe, say he was "surrounded" by weapons - 2012. And even that's a stretch, as his running game by that point was led by a washed up, bloated sub-4 YPC drunk who would go on to never touch an NFL football on gameday again.

Before that 2012 season, Julio was just a rookie who spent a good chunk of the season either battling injury or the steep NFL WR learning curve. After it, Both he and Roddy were missing significant time on the IR, with Roddy in particular no longer able to separate when he was on the field, posting a YPC average lower than most starting TEs.

What tickles me the most, however, is how the folks who throw around this "surrounded by elite weapons" nonsense are the same clowns who are constantly parroting insipid, made-for-ESPN terms and catchphrases like "elite" and "swag" and "got a little dog in 'em," as if they had actual meaning in a real world football discussion. Bless their little hearts, these poor schmucks honestly believe that the verbal diarrhea that spews so freely from their mouths is actual analysis.

"Derp! To heck with your stats! Tom Brady wins Lombardis simply because he has magic football super powers!"

laugh.png

Gonzales was a weapon, only an idiot would claim otherwise, or to infer this was a better offense without him.

Ryan's been surrounded by weapons every year except 2013, the year of injuries. That's not a criticism, he's a darn good QB when given the right pieces, it's just a fact.

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it's bs to you becuase its over your head. I understand my feathered freind.

Take your homer glasses off. I like Ryan as much as anybody, but I also know he's been given ample weapons offensively, weapons most NFL QBs would love to have had.

The problem with Falcons has been lack of commitment to defense, not to offense.

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Gonzales was a weapon, only an idiot would claim otherwise, or to infer this was a better offense without him.

Ryan's been surrounded by weapons every year except 2013, the year of injuries. That's not a criticism, he's a darn good QB when given the right pieces, it's just a fact.

I'm not so sure. I don't see Gonzo anywhere in the pic below. Do you?

Gatorade_The-League-of-Captains.jpg

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There Ya go. That settles it.

OK, let's go ahead and say that a player who is ranked 23rd among TEs in YPR and whose only chance to score a TD is when his team is inside the five yard line can indeed be called a "weapon."

What weapons were Ryan "surrounded" by in 2008 and 2014?

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OK, let's go ahead and say that a player who is ranked 23rd among TEs in YPR and whose only chance to score a TD is when his team is inside the five yard line can indeed be called a "weapon."

What weapons were Ryan "surrounded" by in 2008 and 2014?

You mean that same TE who caught over 400 passes for over 4,000 yards and 35 TDs in his 5 seasons here? That's one heck of a lot "5 yard TDs".

What was Toilolo ranked last season?

In 2008 rookie Ryan had a rookie QBs best friend in a 1700 yard/17 TD Michael Turner. And not a shabby WR in Roddy White.

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In 2008 rookie Ryan had a rookie QBs best friend in a 1700 yard/17 TD Michael Turner. And not a shabby WR in Roddy White.

How was Turner a weapon for Ryan? He couldn't catch a cold. So, in 2008, Ryan was "surrounded" by Roddy White. OK.

And you didn't tell me what weapons Ryan was "surrounded" by in 2014. But who couldn't see that coming, right?

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How was Turner a weapon for Ryan? He couldn't catch a cold. So, in 2008, Ryan was "surrounded" by Roddy White. OK.

And you didn't tell me what weapons Ryan was "surrounded" by in 2014. But who couldn't see that coming, right?

If you didn't know a strong running game opens up the passing game, there's nothing I can help you with other than refer you to google Pro Football 101 and read.

Once you've read and decipher that, get back to me in a week and we can discuss 2014. If you're up to it .

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You mean that same TE who caught over 400 passes for over 4,000 yards and 35 TDs in his 5 seasons here? That's one heck of a lot "5 yard TDs".

What was Toilolo ranked last season?

I'm talking about the same TE who in 2012 - the year in which Ryan was apparently neck deep in weapons -was ranked 24th in YPR and 14th in YAC among qualifying TEs. Which tells you Gonzo was good at basically one thing - posting up 10 yards from the LOS and catching a football. A nice thing to have, but hardly what I'd call a "weapon." I mean, Heath Miller put up nearly identical numbers (71/816/8) to Gonzo in 2012. Is he a weapon?

Speaking of YAC in 2012, guess which NFL QB enjoyed having the #1 WR and #5 TE in that category to throw to? Hint: It's the same QB whose TE - mentioned above - was #1 in YPR.

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Since he's never had the level of support all the way from coaching, defense, play calling, scheming, creativity, running game, pass protection that Brady and Manning enjoy almost annually it's hard to draw any conclusions on if he can do same as them with same support.

In fact, the one year, in 2012, that Ryan got a reasonable level of overall support he took his team on his back all the way to a 10 yard dropped pass of a Super Bowl. That was with Smitty as his head coach, Dirk Koetter as his OC and Mike Nolan as his DC.

I cant wait to see what our awesome NFL QB does with a highy competent coaching staff running all phases of the game. I think much of the unreasonable criticism directed at him for the shortcomings of those around him will start to be replaced with words like "elite" and discussions of how he elevates those around him.

These posts drive me crazy, before Nolan came here everyone regarded him as one of the best. What changed?

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I'm talking about the same TE who in 2012 - the year in which Ryan was apparently neck deep in weapons -was ranked 24th in YPR and 14th in YAC among qualifying TEs. Which tells you Gonzo was good at basically one thing - posting up 10 yards from the LOS and catching a football. A nice thing to have, but hardly what I'd call a "weapon." I mean, Heath Miller put up nearly identical numbers (71/816/8) to Gonzo in 2012. Is he a weapon?

Speaking of YAC in 2012, guess which NFL QB enjoyed having the #1 WR and #5 TE in that category to throw to? Hint: It's the same QB whose TE - mentioned above - was #1 in YPR.

Pro Football 101. Read it, and then get back to me how having a 1700 yard RB or a 80 catch/800 yard/7 TD Tight End aren't 'weapons' every QB in football wouldn't love to have.

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If you didn't know a strong running game opens up the passing game, there's nothing I can help you with other than refer you to google Pro Football 101 and read.

Once you've read and decipher that, get back to me in a week and we can discuss 2014. If you're up to it .

So, no answer. Along with no answer still for the earlier question regarding who Ryan's weapons were in 2014.

OK, so I'll let you educate me, since you're so knowledgeable. What you seem to be saying above is that a weapon is not someone a QB can specifically throw to, but any player or group of players that opens up the passing game.

Did I understand that correctly?

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So, no answer. Along with no answer still for the earlier question regarding who Ryan's weapons were in 2014.

OK, so I'll let you educate me, since you're so knowledgeable. What you seem to be saying above is that a weapon is not someone a QB can specifically throw to, but any player or group of players that opens up the passing game.

Did I understand that correctly?

I'm not sure you're understanding much of anything correctly. I have answers for 2014, but you have to grasp the basics first.

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Pro Football 101. Read it, and then get back to me how having a 1700 yard RB or a 80 catch/800 yard/7 TD Tight End aren't 'weapons' every QB in football wouldn't love to have.

Would having a WR and an offensive system capable of amassing 702 yards after the catch - 150 more than the next highest YAC total from a WR and OC - also be something that every QB in football would love to have?

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I'm not sure you're understanding much of anything correctly. I have answers for 2014, but you have to grasp the basics first.

It was a simple yes or no question.

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Take your homer glasses off. I like Ryan as much as anybody, but I also know he's been given ample weapons offensively, weapons most NFL QBs would love to have had.

The problem with Falcons has been lack of commitment to defense, not to offense.

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of this thing we non-Madden generation like to call an Offensive Line? You've sidestepped this comment from others several times.

It doesn't matter how many toys you have to play with if you have no time to get them the ball or open up holes for a balanced offense with a running game. And it doesn't matter how crappy your "weapons" are if you have all day long to throw the ball, can lean on a great running game, AND have a team that actually plays defense.

Put Ryan on Baltimore's team instead of Flacco and they would probably have at least 2 more championships and Ryan would be hailed as the 2nd coming. The whole team matters, not just a few shiny toys on offense. Only an idiot would suggest we've had a team as deep and as talented on both sides of the ball as Baltimore since Ryan and Flacco came to the NFL.

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I'm wondering if you've ever heard of this thing we non-Madden generation like to call an Offensive Line? You've sidestepped this comment from others several times.

It doesn't matter how many toys you have to play with if you have no time to get them the ball or open up holes for a balanced offense with a running game. And it doesn't matter how crappy your "weapons" are if you have all day long to throw the ball, can lean on a great running game, AND have a team that actually plays defense.

Put Ryan on Baltimore's team instead of Flacco and they would probably have at least 2 more championships and Ryan would be hailed as the 2nd coming. The whole team matters, not just a few shiny toys on offense. Only an idiot would suggest we've had a team as deep and as talented on both sides of the ball as Baltimore since Ryan and Flacco came to the NFL.

With all due respect, I haven't sidestepped anything. I know full well Matt has had a horrid OL the past two seasons, and have posted that consistently. He's also had a horrid defense here as well, all which has nothing to do with my points, which a reasonable person would know if they read my comments in this thread objectively.

Nor have I ever compared what we have and haven't had to Baltimore, although I respectfully disagree they would have "at least two more championships" with Ryan as their QB.

Some of you guys really lose your grip when it comes to differing opinions on our QB. Matt's a Top 8 QB, but he's not Top 1, at least not yet.

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Ok say Ryan isn't as good as thee top 3 or 4 but he's in the next group and didn't the article at the end say that nie on 80% of the league would have Ryan in a heartbeat.

I'm sure as **** glad that #2 plays for us after the absolute Donkeys we've had throwing the ball for us in the las t decade or 2.

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Let me premise this by saying I absolutely love Gonzalez. In the day he was absolutely a weapon, and is the best TE to ever player the game. That being said, his better days were behind him when he got to us. I wouldn't classify him as a weapon per se, more so a safety valve. That man was more clutch in 3rd down than anyone else on this team. However gaining first downs and being a weapon, while having connections, do not create a weapon alone.

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