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ATLFalcons11

Great Article - Nfl's Best Qb Situation

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if you have a QB that can raise the level of the coaching staff and players around him, sure you can. Matter of fact, Matt Ryan proved it can be done.

When?

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Nobody can do it by himself, not Brady, not Rodgers, or whoever else so let's get that out the way. There's no such thing as by himself in football.

Exactly, when the packers won the superbowl in 2010-2011 season they had a complete team around Rodgers, a good o-line and a top 10 defense. Ever since they won the superbowl, there o-line and defense has got worse each year. Even though Rodgers has put up great numbers, they haven't been able to win another superbowl because of there defense and o-line

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And you're still overlooking Oline, defense and coaching. You seem to be saying that skill position players on offense is enough and it's just not.

Rodgers, in his first NFCCG, had a line of 17/30/244/0/2 QB rating of 55. No TDs 2 picks-his D bailed him out. Ryan has never had a D that could bail him out.

Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Year Peyton won the Super Bowl, he had a playoff game with a line of 15/30/150/0/2 QB rating of 39.6. No TDs, 2 picks, D carried him that game. Ryan has never had that.

You can do the same thing with coaching.

I give kudos when I can and this is a very powerful post.

People rightfully so will point to Ryan's turnovers. It's absolutely a strong point to do that but all QBS have had that Stat line where they did terrible and the rest of the team bailed them out.

That's why no QB can do it alone and why there's an understanding that Ryan has a lack of talent.

I totally agree with 2012.

2008 is up for discussion but Ryan was a rookie.

2010 is where the real debate lies here because 2009 we didn't make the playoffs and 2011 showed who we really were when we did.

I still haven't seen a valid argument imo for 2010.

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LOL! I apologize in advance because I know you're about 15 or whatever pages into this thread and other than posting it I haven't been able to join in on the conversation.

So you're so knee deep in people attacking you that you can't see that I'm asking a simple question about one team in 2010.

I haven't now or in the past trolled you or anybody. So I'm not asking if you think Matt Ryan is an excellent QB.

I'm simply asking what I questioned above and on the multiple other posts that I have sent your way in hopes of a discussion.

Frankly, I'm tired of unnecessarily defending myself but I was intrigued by the debate and convo that I wanted to be a part of it.

If you don't want to answer the question about that particular team, then fine. Am I at least correct in assuming the two teams you think were enough to win a SB was in 2010 and 2012?

he's going blue-dog on you because he CANT answer your question without exposing the weakness of his argument.

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In 2010 our defense didn't force a punt although the missed TD to Jenkins in the end zone and the interception did us in. Those turnovers will happen and they can't be overcome when the other team is still scoring.

My bad when I mentioned OL I was thinking about 2011.

Run game was part of the defense then.

I expect MR to manage the game...not define it.

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And you're still overlooking Oline, defense and coaching. You seem to be saying that skill position players on offense is enough and it's just not.

Rodgers, in his first NFCCG, had a line of 17/30/244/0/2 QB rating of 55. No TDs 2 picks-his D bailed him out. Ryan has never had a D that could bail him out.

Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Year Peyton won the Super Bowl, he had a playoff game with a line of 15/30/150/0/2 QB rating of 39.6. No TDs, 2 picks, D carried him that game. Ryan has never had that.

You can do the same thing with coaching.

+1000

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I give kudos when I can and this is a very powerful post.

People rightfully so will point to Ryan's turnovers. It's absolutely a strong point to do that but all QBS have had that Stat line where they did terrible and the rest of the team bailed them out.

That's why no QB can do it alone and why there's an understanding that Ryan has a lack of talent.

I totally agree with 2012.

2008 is up for discussion but Ryan was a rookie.

2010 is where the real debate lies here because 2009 we didn't make the playoffs and 2011 showed who we really were when we did.

I still haven't seen a valid argument imo for 2010.

Here's another critical point, the total support system from coaching on down to scheme and players that Ryan had in 2012, is something at minimum Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have had most every single season of their careers.

Ryan had it once, and got us 10 yards for. The Super Bowl. If he'd had that level of support or better most years of his career we'd already have a Super Bowl win.

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if you have a QB that can raise the level of the coaching staff and players around him, sure you can. Matter of fact, Matt Ryan proved it can be done.

He hasn't 'proved it' yet in my book in no Super Bowls The talent was there, we didn't quite get it done.

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LOL! I apologize in advance because I know you're about 15 or whatever pages into this thread and other than posting it I haven't been able to join in on the conversation.

So you're so knee deep in people attacking you that you can't see that I'm asking a simple question about one team in 2010.

I haven't now or in the past trolled you or anybody. So I'm not asking if you think Matt Ryan is an excellent QB.

I'm simply asking what I questioned above and on the multiple other posts that I have sent your way in hopes of a discussion.

Frankly, I'm tired of unnecessarily defending myself but I was intrigued by the debate and convo that I wanted to be a part of it.

If you don't want to answer the question about that particular team, then fine. Am I at least correct in assuming the two teams you think were enough to win a SB was in 2010 and 2012?

LOL, I definitely stirred up a hornets nest! The only ones 'attacking' me are immature homers who cannot handle my truth, and those attacks are a direct reflection of their level of emotional immaturity. The very few I respect here in football IQ aren't attacking or even arguing which (to me) speaks volumes. My direct bluntness probably doesn't help either. 😇 Bottom line, I'm not here to make friends nor am I emotionally invested in a player like these guys so obviously are. I wander in from time to time to discuss my fav team, not to argue all day with knuckleheads about how perfect they think our QB is. Unfortunately, this thread turned into that. It happens sometimes, we'll all get through it fine.

Never thought you were one of those, and I apologize in not answering your question specifically.

We had a very good but not great team in 2010 talent wise, we had 9-10 pro bowlers that year I believe, although I'm admitably shooting from the hip on that but you can look it up. Bottom line, you don't have to have the best talent to win a Super Bowl (see 2012 Ravens) but you do have to get hot at right time, and we of course ran into A Rodgers GB buzz saw that year.

I also don't believe Matt was quite ready in 2010 in QB maturity or as a leader to take us to a SB that year, and he proved it in the GB game....and yes, I know that comment will drive his fan club absolutely batty.....But I think we missed our best shot in 2012.

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And you're still overlooking Oline, defense and coaching. You seem to be saying that skill position players on offense is enough and it's just not.

Rodgers, in his first NFCCG, had a line of 17/30/244/0/2 QB rating of 55. No TDs 2 picks-his D bailed him out. Ryan has never had a D that could bail him out.

Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Year Peyton won the Super Bowl, he had a playoff game with a line of 15/30/150/0/2 QB rating of 39.6. No TDs, 2 picks, D carried him that game. Ryan has never had that.

You can do the same thing with coaching.

But all teams face that issue, where to invest their limited (drafting and FA) resources. You can't have all-pros at every position . TD invested more in skill positions than in OL/DL and also had some huge misses. But all teams including NE Seahawks and Ravens have their misses too.

And no, I'm not saying skill positions are enough, and disagree that's all we had . I would argue our record 2008-2012 was indicative of our overall talent. We had a decent OL, opportunistic D, decent coaching and very good QB , WRers, TE, RB etc.

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Run game was part of the defense then.

I expect MR to manage the game...not define it.

That's fine to have that expectation but it doesn't take away the lack of talent in the defensive department.

He certainly made it worst but if you have talent around you, then you don't have to perfect to succeed.

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But all teams face that issue, where to invest their limited (drafting and FA) resources. You can't have all-pros at every position . TD invested more in skill positions than in OL/DL and also had some huge misses. But all teams including NE Seahawks and Ravens have their misses too.

I would argue our record 2008-2012 was indicative of our overall talent. We had a decent OL, opportunistic D, decent coaching and very good QB , WRers, TE, RB etc.

You can't dismiss the players returning from 2007...before MS/TD/MR.

They mattered...overall talent.

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And you're still overlooking Oline, defense and coaching. You seem to be saying that skill position players on offense is enough and it's just not.

Rodgers, in his first NFCCG, had a line of 17/30/244/0/2 QB rating of 55. No TDs 2 picks-his D bailed him out. Ryan has never had a D that could bail him out.

Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Year Peyton won the Super Bowl, he had a playoff game with a line of 15/30/150/0/2 QB rating of 39.6. No TDs, 2 picks, D carried him that game. Ryan has never had that.

You can do the same thing with coaching.

This post should shut up anyone who blames Ryan. Great post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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He hasn't 'proved it' yet in my book in no Super Bowls The talent was there, we didn't quite get it done.

But all teams face that issue, where to invest their limited (drafting and FA) resources. You can't have all-pros at every position . TD invested more in skill positions than in OL/DL and also had some huge misses. But all teams including NE Seahawks and Ravens have their misses too.

And no, I'm not saying skill positions are enough, and disagree that's all we had . I would argue our record 2008-2012 was indicative of our overall talent. We had a decent OL, opportunistic D, decent coaching and very good QB , WRers, TE, RB etc.

Decent, opportunistic & decent aren't enough in the playoffs.

Weaknesses of the oline get exposed against the better D's in the playoffs.

Ds that live by TOs get exposed by the better teams that don't turn the ball over

Smith was outcoached pretty much every playoff game

Ryan has hardly been perfect, he's also had handicaps in the playoffs.

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Decent, opportunistic & decent aren't enough in the playoffs.

Weaknesses of the oline get exposed against the better D's in the playoffs.

Ds that live by TOs get exposed by the better teams that don't turn the ball over

Smith was outcoached pretty much every playoff game

Ryan has hardly been perfect, he's also had handicaps in the playoffs.

Decent and opportunistic are very much enough in playoffs. History is littered with examples of that.

And All teams have weaknesses.

And yes, we got out coached in playoffs, even in the one game we won. No argument there. But (except for 2012) our players during playoffs also got outplayed at basically every position, including QB.

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If you're wanting me to say Matt is an excellent QB, then yes, Matt is an excellent QB. I've never said otherwise.

My point in this thread is to the narrative that he's never had the talent here as other SB winning QBs have had. To that, I disagree.

The tools typically needed to win the super bowl:

- A smart decision making QB

- A good offensive line

- A top 10 defense with a difference making pass rush

- A GREAT head coach

Usually a team needs 3 out of 4 of those to win the super bowl and they also need some luck on their side. You could make an argument that Ryan had a good offensive line in 2010 but he's never had a good defense. And if you try to bring up 2012, I'll remind you that defense was ranked 24th overall, not good at all. As for Mike Smith, he was never a great head coach. He was good for a few seasons, but it was clear he was out of his element when it came to the playoffs every season

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Where did I say it was the only reason?

I think it's reasonable to assume you meant coaching was our main crux by the way you worded that sentence. if I was wrong to assume that my bad. my argument isn't that it's not the only problem, but not even close to the main problem we had that year

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The tools typically needed to win the super bowl:

- A smart decision making QB

- A good offensive line

- A top 10 defense with a difference making pass rush

- A GREAT head coach

Usually a team needs 3 out of 4 of those to win the super bowl and they also need some luck on their side. You could make an argument that Ryan had a good offensive line in 2010 but he's never had a good defense. And if you try to bring up 2012, I'll remind you that defense was ranked 24th overall, not good at all. As for Mike Smith, he was never a great head coach. He was good for a few seasons, but it was clear he was out of his element when it came to the playoffs every season

You make some valid points, but there are plenty of exceptions, especially when you include all the teams that reached super bowl (including the ones who lost).

Our D was pretty darn good in 2010, as good or better than Aints the year they won their SB. But to your point our QB made some poor decisions and Rodgers ate our Defense up in that playoff game.

But we should have won it all in 2012. It was there for the taking.

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You make some valid points, but there are plenty of exceptions, especially when you include all the teams that reached super bowl (including the ones who lost).

Our D was pretty darn good in 2010, as good or better than Aints the year they won their SB. But to your point our QB made some poor decisions and Rodgers ate our Defense up in that playoff game.

But we should have won it all in 2012. It was there for the taking.

In 2012, it was there for the taking, but the 2nd half collapse in both 2012 playoff games was clearly on Mike Smith. This is exactly why the Saints won the super bowl and we didn't. They have a great head coach. Their defense wasn't elite at all, but they did have a phenominal o-line, a great QB, and a great head coach. If Sean Payton, one of the Harbaugh brothers, Belichick, or Carroll is our head coach in 2012, we most likely win the super bowl. Blame Smith, don't blame Ryan
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In 2012, it was there for the taking, but the 2nd half collapse in both 2012 playoff games was clearly on Mike Smith. This is exactly why the Saints won the super bowl and we didn't. They have a great head coach. Their defense wasn't elite at all, but they did have a phenominal o-line, a great QB, and a great head coach. If Sean Payton, one of the Harbaugh brothers, Belichick, or Carroll is our head coach in 2012, we most likely win the super bowl. Blame Smith, don't blame Ryan

Smith didn't bumble a snap in the redzone...Smith didn't eat turf on a simple slant route...Smith didn't trip with a clear field in front of him...

really wish people would stop blaming that 2nd half on Smith when 3 mistakes turned into 2 turnovers and left 10 probable points off the board

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I think it's reasonable to assume you meant coaching was our main crux by the way you worded that sentence. if I was wrong to assume that my bad. my argument isn't that it's not the only problem, but not even close to the main problem we had that year

Assumptions are rarely the fault of the person being assumed.

The main problem we had that year was that we weren't ready.

That fumble tho was caused by the Arizona DL knowing our line calls and there was adjustment that was necessary but wasn't made.

Not sure who that is on, coaching, Center, QB, etc.

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In 2012, it was there for the taking, but the 2nd half collapse in both 2012 playoff games was clearly on Mike Smith. This is exactly why the Saints won the super bowl and we didn't. They have a great head coach. Their defense wasn't elite at all, but they did have a phenominal o-line, a great QB, and a great head coach. If Sean Payton, one of the Harbaugh brothers, Belichick, or Carroll is our head coach in 2012, we most likely win the super bowl. Blame Smith, don't blame Ryan

I blame them all. Coaching and players, offense and defense. To blow a big lead like that at home is inexcusable to all concerned. Just like the rest of the team, Matt didn't have a strong 2nd half that game with a crucial INT and fumble.

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At the end of the day,where would be the falcons be right now.....

If matt ryan was not our QB??????

You mean we'd be a lot worse than 10-22 last two years?

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Wilson, in his first NFCCG, fumbled on his very snap, gave the ball to SF on his own 15 , his D held them to a FG. That D also forced TOs on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Ryan has never had a D like that.

Not true. Seattle won that game because, unlike Ryan, Wilson can do this...

russel-wilson2-layers.jpg

#elite #swag #thisissportscenter

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