Jump to content

Forgotten Man On Our Defense


Recommended Posts

Cliff Matthews.

Think about it he has got all the measurables to be our Michael Bennett. Some say Goodman will do well and I hope he does being a Clemson man, but I think this vet from SC will surprise. Heck will call it just like R_The_Great. He will have a big role on our defense all the while racking up a 7+ sack season.

So basically Cliff Matthews is going to play the Michael Bennett role and produce the same amount of sacks?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So basically Cliff Matthews is going to play the Michael Bennett role and produce the same amount of sacks?

Matthews best case scenario is he will be battling Clayborn, Warren Herring, and Sam Meredith for ONE roster spot at backup 5-tech behind Tyson Jackson. Herring and Meredith are obviously long shots. The real battle will be between Matthews and Clayborn.

Obviously Clayborn is more talented, but the things in Matthews' favor are special teams ability and no extensive injury history unlike Clayborn. Training camp will settle it all out.

Edited by RandomFan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that might be Hageman that you saw recently reported that he has dropped to 295 after being overweight last year. I would assume Jackson is going to lose some weight for this season, and I definitely hope what you said is true. However, I've not seen it reported anywhere - and I like to think I'm fairly on top of most Falcons news.

Also, Bennett is not built like a prototype 5-tech DE, he's too underweight for the position. But that's what makes Bennett such a special and unique player - even at his low weight of 275 he still has the strength to take on the frequent double teams that position regurlarly encounters and can then still get a solid pass rush when singled up. Most 5-tech's are in the 290+ range, like Jackson. Clayborn is not a starting 5-tech DE and I'm going to keep saying it until people understand that - which by my estimation will be sometime around when a certain warm place freezes over. Or when Clayborn starts exactly zero games at the 5-tech next year. Somehow I doubt even that will convince everyone...

Dude, that's just not correct. Most 5-techs are NOT 290+. 3-techs yes, 5-techs no.

Two 5-tech DE's play in the 4-3 Over.

One 5-tech DE plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And all these DE's are typically 6'2-6'5 260-280 lbs.

Two 3-tech DE's play in the 3-4 Over.

Two 1-3 tech DT's (they move across the A & B gaps) play in the 4-3 Over.

One 3-tech DT plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And all these guys are typically 6'2-6'6 290-320 lbs.

One 1-tech NT plays in the 3-4 Over.

And this guy is typically 6'1-6'4 330+ lbs.

One 1-tech NT plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And this guy is typically 6'0-6'4 300-320 lbs.

Look at these two pics:

4-3 Under example: http://football.calsci.com/images/4-3OverUnder.png

Seattle in the 4-3 Under: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1104946/4-3_Under.png

The strong-side 5-tech DE lines up well outside the OT where in a typical 4-3 Over the DE also lines up. And if you then look at Quinn's defense, Michael Bennett is also outside the OT with the SAM literally a yard away. This is the traditional edge rushing DE. John Abraham could actually play this spot in Quinn's defense, for example. Abraham was 6'4 265 and rushed from the 5-tech or 7-tech just outside the OT his entire career.

In a 3-4 Over, which is what Nolan ran, you would be correct. The 3-4 DE is virtually the same as a 4-3 DT. But in Quinn's 4-3 Under, the DE is a 275 lbs speed edge rusher just like you would see in a 4-3 Over.

The weak-side 3-tech in Quinn's defense is a bigger DT, just like Tony McDaniel. And the 1-tech DT is actually identical to a NT in a 3-4 Over, except in Quinn's defense this guy plays in the strong-side A-gap instead of "over" the Center.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude, that's just not correct. Most 5-techs are NOT 290+. 3-techs yes, 5-techs no.

Two 5-tech DE's play in the 4-3 Over.

One 5-tech DE plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And all these DE's are typically 6'2-6'5 260-280 lbs.

Two 3-tech DE's play in the 3-4 Over.

Two 1-3 tech DT's (they move across the A & B gaps) play in the 4-3 Over.

One 3-tech DT plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And all these guys are typically 6'2-6'6 290-320 lbs.

One 1-tech NT plays in the 3-4 Over.

And this guy is typically 6'1-6'4 330+ lbs.

One 1-tech NT plays in the 4-3 Under. (Quinn's defense)

And this guy is typically 6'0-6'4 300-320 lbs.

Look at these two pics:

4-3 Under example: http://football.calsci.com/images/4-3OverUnder.png

Seattle in the 4-3 Under: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1104946/4-3_Under.png

The strong-side 5-tech DE lines up well outside the OT where in a typical 4-3 Over the DE also lines up. And if you then look at Quinn's defense, Michael Bennett is also outside the OT with the SAM literally a yard away. This is the traditional edge rushing DE. John Abraham could actually play this spot in Quinn's defense, for example. Abraham was 6'4 265 and rushed from the 5-tech or 7-tech just outside the OT his entire career.

In a 3-4 Over, which is what Nolan ran, you would be correct. The 3-4 DE is virtually the same as a 4-3 DT. But in Quinn's 4-3 Under, the DE is a 275 lbs speed edge rusher just like you would see in a 4-3 Over.

I think you need to look at your source information again? I'm not saying this to be mean, but to correctly inform a misunderstanding. But pretty much everything you just said is backwards. The DE on the other side is the pass rushing role: the LEO role. Red Bryant was Seattle's starting 5-tech for years: he was 6'5" 323lbs. That starting strongside DE (5-tech) in this scheme is pretty much the same body type as a 4-tech 3-4 DE, per Pete Carroll's own words. This position is constantly taking on double team blocks from the RT and the RG, so it would be fruitless to put a light-in-the-pants pass rusher on that side. Also, by definition a 5-tech is lined up right over the outside shoulder of the OT (that is the very definition of the gap that the 5 in the 5-technique stands for.) Therefore, the 5-tech is never lined up wide of the OT in a pass rushing angle like a 7 tech or 9 tech.

The 5-tech and the 1-tech eat up the double team blocks on the strongside of the formation in order to free up one-on-one blocking assignments on the weakside for the 3-tech and the LEO.

Again, Bennett being able to hold up to the frequent double teams of the 5-tech's role in this scheme is what makes him such a special and unique individual. A lightweight 275lbs man isn't supposed to be able to hold up in the run game as well as he does in base defense. But somehow he gets it done. That's why he gets paid the big bucks.

Here, check these out. One is a detailed explanation of the 5-tech DE and the LEO DE in this scheme; the other is a link to everything Seahawks defense.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/1/4787546/the-seahawks-and-multiple-defensive-fronts

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2013/5/16/4338026/seahawks-defense-pete-carroll-monte-kiffin-nfl-4-3-under

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will tell you this, I think it is foolish to totally dismiss the idea that one of these players on the roster who have had little production in Smitty's defense could end up being very productive in Quinn's scheme, irrespective of draft position. As was said above, Bennett was un UDFA.

maybe not totally dismiss it, but certainly dnt get your hopes up..

If you can play you can play regardless of scheme coach etc.. eventually you'll flash if you got what it takes.. we'll see

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah. How dare people be concerned about accuracy of information. The freaking nerve, amirite? :rolleyes:

to be more clear. I mean trying to compare a player height weight speed to another player and EXPECT the same production.

Does that clear it up for ya?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthews can be effective and he was in 2012 on our run in the playoffs. I don't think he will be a 7 sack guy but he can make a play every now and then. He hasn't had the keys given to him because of draft status and what ever it may be, but I think he can do some good things this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a good sign that he has stood out to coach quinn, but it's still very early. The real tests are to come in training camp.

I love having faith that our coaching staff will pick the best guys out there though and not just play favorites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't beat up on the OP, we all know our new coach will play the best players. Cliff has not been bad for the very limited chances he's gotten. He can't help it Smitty was too conservative and loved his sacred cows.

I'm prepared to see at least two players we didn't think highly of perform much better this season under Quinn. I have a feeling it could be Alford and Matthews. Maybe Southward too.

He makes threads just to get beat up
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthews can be effective and he was in 2012 on our run in the playoffs. I don't think he will be a 7 sack guy but he can make a play every now and then. He hasn't had the keys given to him because of draft status and what ever it may be, but I think he can do some good things this year.

I got R on my side.... The rest of yall are irrelevant :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cliff Matthews.

Think about it he has got all the measurables to be our Michael Bennett. Some say Goodman will do well and I hope he does being a Clemson man, but I think this vet from SC will surprise. Heck will call it just like R_The_Great. He will have a big role on our defense all the while racking up a 7+ sack season.

I agree. I think he's a good one. He may well thrive with new coach/system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clearly someone on the team remembers him. He's managed to hang around with almost zero game experience to back up this undying loyalty to him. Someone somewhere on this team has his back and sees something that has yet to be unleashed in a game. Im a tad skeptical at this juncture however.

Maybe Quinn is a defensive whisperer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

let's be real they will carry about 9 0r 10 D-linemen

Beasley, Jarrett, Schofield, Clayborn will almost surely make it--- Quinn just brought them in

Soliai, Jackson, Babineau, Hageman will almost surely make it--- they are just better than the rest

that's 8 of the 10

Then Goodman, Mapopnga, Bierman, Matthews, Helmuli

and the new UDFAs Mbu, Herring, Meredith

Matthews will have to be top 1 or top 2 of these 8 to make the team

GOOD LUCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

let's be real they will carry about 9 0r 10 D-linemen

Beasley, Jarrett, Schofield, Clayborn will almost surely make it--- Quinn just brought them in

Soliai, Jackson, Babineau, Hageman will almost surely make it--- they are just better than the rest

that's 8 of the 10

Then Goodman, Mapopnga, Bierman, Matthews, Helmuli

and the new UDFAs Mbu, Herring, Meredith

Matthews will have to be top 1 or top 2 of these 8 to make the team

GOOD LUCK

Those guys could be viewed as SLBs.

Also, of 10 guys, injury is likely to happen with one or more of them. Clayborn, in particular.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clearly someone on the team remembers him. He's managed to hang around with almost zero game experience to back up this undying loyalty to him. Someone somewhere on this team has his back and sees something that has yet to be unleashed in a game. Im a tad skeptical at this juncture however.

Maybe Quinn is a defensive whisperer.

I thought that moniker was given to Chuck Smith?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he makes the team beating out Goodman on ST's and as 3rd string 5T/3T.

This is how I see the DL shaking out.

LEO-Beasley, Biermann, Shembo

RDT-Hageman, Babinaux, Matthews

LDT-Soliai, Jarrett, Mbu

LDE-Clayborn, Jackson, Matthews

SLB-Reed, Schofield, Shembo

Quinn wants his LEO's and SLB's to be interchangeable so you are three deep there. The 3T and 5T same thing. The 1T on the other hand needs 3 bodies to be three deep.

Lets add the fact that they cut a LEO in Jaquies Smith and signed a 1T(Mbu), and two 5T's(Meredith, Warren) I dont think either beats out Matthews or Goodman for that matter but it should be noted that thats where they brought in the competition. Tyler Starr has a shot as a LEO/SLB but is more likely a PSer.

Edited by Ryan_2.0_WCO
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cliff Matthews.

Think about it he has got all the measurables to be our Michael Bennett. Some say Goodman will do well and I hope he does being a Clemson man, but I think this vet from SC will surprise. Heck will call it just like R_The_Great. He will have a big role on our defense all the while racking up a 7+ sack season.

agDsDj0.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...