Ross Tucker Podcast On Tevin Coleman

[primetime]

Was listening to episode #236 on the Ross Tucker (ex NFL Olineman). It featured a draft guru guy called Matt Waldman who evaluated his likes and dislikes of the draft. Of interest his major dislikes were Fowler to Jaksonville as he didn't see him as a good edge rusher to man the LEO (more an overall lb prospect capable of playing multiple spots). His other notable dislike was Tevin Coleman to Atlanta as he didn't see him as a good one cut runner for Shanahans zone blocking system. Said he didn't think he had patience to wait for the hole to open etc and thought Devonte would make a much better feature back in this system.

Ftr I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment on Fowler (strictly as a LEO) however I think he'll be way off the mark on Coleman. I see him and Devonte both splitting time and getting plenty of carries.

Btw I was surprised that the two guys mentioned first and second were both heavily discussed here on the AFMB 's however Matt Waldman is an Atlanta native which makes me think he had a vested interest in these guys specifically.

Edited May 13, 2015 by primetime

[Dirtybird56]

Entirely possible Coleman didn't demonstrate patience due to a subpar line at Indiana. Waiting for blocks to set often meant being tackled in the backfield. I see no reason Coleman can't adjust, just like he'll have to adjust to holding the ball in his right arm

[Clark Kent™]

I am not an expert on Waldman. I've seen several of his videos and his collabs with other guys. Some of them are not really well known guys that i'm aware of. They are just guys who posted videos for draftbreakdown and worked at other various small websites. I don't necessarily take their opinion over some posters here. Waldman about puts me to sleep when i hear his voice. Regardless, he definitely puts in the hours on watching people so i'm not saying he is a slouch.

But he isn't alone in thinking that about Coleman. FalconMoore has said the same thing about his lack of patience long before Waldman came out and said that. But the part we disagree on is can Coleman be taught to be a little more patient. I think he absolutely can. Its not a complex idea. I'm not saying you can teach him to have great VISION. I think you are born with that, but patience i think you can teach.

And there are several other more well known analyst who believe Coleman is a great fit. So take it for what its worth. As great of a run game as Shanahan always has, i am confident that we got a RB who he thinks is a great fit and i'll take that over anyones word.

[Francis York Morgan]

I am not an expert on Waldman. I've seen several of his videos and his collabs with other guys. Some of them are not really well known guys that i'm aware of. They are just guys who posted videos for draftbreakdown and worked at other various small websites. I don't necessarily take their opinion over some posters here. Waldman about puts me to sleep when i hear his voice. Regardless, he definitely puts in the hours on watching people so i'm not saying he is a slouch.

But he isn't alone in thinking that about Coleman. FalconMoore has said the same thing about his lack of patience long before Waldman came out and said that. But the part we disagree on is can Coleman be taught to be a little more patient. I think he absolutely can. Its not a complex idea. I'm not saying you can teach him to have great VISION. I think you are born with that, but patience i think you can teach.

And there are several other more well known analyst who believe Coleman is a great fit. So take it for what its worth. As great of a run game as Shanahan always has, i am confident that we got a RB who he thinks is a great fit and i'll take that over anyones word.

The bold is the important part to me. Still, it's concerning. I remember talking with you in threads about Coleman earlier on and I liked him a lot and thought he was talented, but the dude runs into his blockers backs so often. And I never see him take cutbacks, which are pretty important in a lot of zone concepts. So it didn't feel like a fit.

But again, it's hard to say with the line he had in college. So I'm trying to reserve judgment and be optimistic since I still really like him as a player.

EDIT: Should also mention I thought we'd have to take him in the 2nd, in the 3rd I can accept it a lot more easily.

[Clark Kent™]

The bold is the important part to me. Still, it's concerning. I remember talking with you in threads about Coleman earlier on and I liked him a lot and thought he was talented, but the dude runs into his blockers backs so often. And I never see him take cutbacks, which are pretty important in a lot of zone concepts. So it didn't feel like a fit.

But again, it's hard to say with the line he had in college. So I'm trying to reserve judgment and be optimistic since I still really like him as a player.

EDIT: Should also mention I thought we'd have to take him in the 2nd, in the 3rd I can accept it a lot more easily.

Yeah the line and lack of passing threat has to have some kind of factor into it. A lot of his big runs came on him finding the smallest crease and accelerating through it.

I thought he'd be gone by our pick in the 3rd as well.

[Jerry Maguire]

I like much of Matt's stuff. Dont think he is a slouch By any means. Matt's work is what actially influenced me into thinking Coleman was not a fit.

There logically has to be something the Falcons see that Waldman does not. One thing I believe is Matt is not seeing the forest because of the trees. Coleman torched defenses on zone runs.

Secondly, post draft you have to ask yourself who you trust more as an evaluator of RB fit in a heavy zone system. Matt Waldman or the guy who gets paid to run said offense. Shanahan job depends on it but Waldman's doesn't and Waldman doesn't have nearly as much info on Coleman as do the Falcons. Much of his analysis is subjective, AND... subjective analysis always leans toward whatever preconceived bias a person has.

[Jerry Maguire]

Forgot to add... can anyone point out a RB drafted by a team with a Shanahan led offense that was a poor fit?

Waldman should admit he could be way off if he already hasn't.

[Wjcorner]

When people say Coleman lacks patience, I'm always wondering what they mean. I rarely saw him outrun his blockers and he was usually blasting through small creases...why would he wait any longer when the hole closes almost as soon as he's leaving it?

[RandomFan]

When people say Coleman lacks patience, I'm always wondering what they mean. I rarely saw him outrun his blockers and he was usually blasting through small creases...why would he wait any longer when the hole closes almost as soon as he's leaving it?

Exactly. As someone else on this forum posted in another thread, should tell that guy to go find the film of where Coleman missed a hole or where one would have developed if he waited longer. There isn't any. Sounds like nit-picking to me about a RB with blazing speed that gets to the hole fast and is extremely decisive.

As has been pointed out in the past, Coleman takes the quick sure yards as opposed to looking to bounce things outside for what might be a better gain, or might be a run stuff. That is exactly why I've always said I'd take Emmitt Smith over Barry Sanders on my team. Sanders was undoubtedly a better pure runner; but Smith would get you the consistent chunks of yards that kept offenses on schedule and marching down the field. If that is what we have in Coleman, then I'm very excited indeed.

[citsalp]

I've read the whole Waldman draft scouting profile(100 plus pages) he's definitely not a hack. His issue with Coleman is his comparison to McFadden who failed miserably running in a ZBS scheme.

Which is my concern about Coleman's patience, there is no doubt he has skills and the speed to run with the "Wildebeest"...Anyway I hope he just lets the whole open or crease, then plants his foot and Goes...

Here is a great example of the ZBS and RB in perfect unison...It's a thing of beauty. And he runs a 4.61 of course he weighs 230lbs.

Edited May 13, 2015 by citsalp

[ATL_DirtyBirds]

Watched Coleman throughout his entire college career. This patience and vision thing is the biggest load of **** I have ever heard. Where is it coming from because I never saw anything that would have me saying this type of ********. Can't wait for the season to start and for Coleman to put all these dumb "observations" to rest.

[etherdome]

Yeah, OK, Shanahan, the guy that emphasizes the run game, is wrong about Coleman.

I am not seeing this. TC will look very good in this offense, as will Freeman.

[Gold4425]

Coleman/Freeman/Smith combination will be much better then what we have had in the last few years. Those guys can take it to the house if our OL gives them a crease. I still think we need to add a cheap, rugged pile driver if the other RB can't do it and our backfield will be complete.

[citsalp]

I'm a Coleman fan, and it's not just "my" observation. I see the possibilities, and great potential.

[Jerry Maguire]

I've read the whole Waldman draft scouting profile(100 plus pages) he's definitely not a hack. His issue with Coleman is his comparison to McFadden who failed miserably running in a ZBS scheme.

Which is my concern about Coleman's patience, there is no doubt he has skills and the speed to run with the "Wildebeest"...Anyway I hope he just lets the whole open or crease, then plants his foot and Goes...

Here is a great example of the ZBS and RB in perfect unison...It's a thing of beauty. And he runs a 4.61 of course he weighs 230lbs.

Coleman is like McFadden in that he is super fast and has an upright running style. Does that mean Coleman won't excel in a ZBS bc His style is similar in some respects? Of course not.

Coleman keeps his feet moving on contact. He is very decisive. He plants his foot and goes.

What the film does show is Coleman making defenses pay on zone runs. Missing the forest because of the trees...

[Vandy]

I've read the whole Waldman draft scouting profile(100 plus pages) he's definitely not a hack. His issue with Coleman is his comparison to McFadden who failed miserably running in a ZBS scheme.

Which is my concern about Coleman's patience, there is no doubt he has skills and the speed to run with the "Wildebeest"...Anyway I hope he just lets the whole open or crease, then plants his foot and Goes...

Here is a great example of the ZBS and RB in perfect unison...It's a thing of beauty. And he runs a 4.61 of course he weighs 230lbs.

If we get McFadden-like production out of Coleman I'll take it from a 3rd round pick

[citsalp]

Coleman is like McFadden in that he is super fast and has an upright running style. Does that mean Coleman won't excel in a ZBS bc His style is similar in some respects? Of course not.

Coleman keeps his feet moving on contact. He is very decisive. He plants his foot and goes.

What the film does show is Coleman making defenses pay on zone runs. Missing the forest because of the trees...

I never said he wouldn't succeed in ZBS, All I stated was I had a concern???

What's the big deal?

[Francis York Morgan]

I never said he wouldn't succeed in ZBS, All I stated was I had a concern???

What's the big deal?

Not directing this at anyone in particular, not even Jerry who you quoted, but a lot of TATF thinks if you raise any concerns you're a hater or troll. Can't count all the times I mentioned an issue Ryan had and got blasted.

[Hashbrown3]

Just watch his film and judge for yourself. I just don't get some people. Coleman was one super productive back and oftentimes had nowhere to run! The dude seized every inch of daylight he was given. I just can't bear hearing anymore of this bogus bullcrap. Just fire up some tape. It's all there. The guy ran behind an Indiana line when every coach in college knew he was getting the ball. Unreal man!!

[Jerry Maguire]

I never said he wouldn't succeed in ZBS, All I stated was I had a concern???

What's the big deal?

I don't have an issue with you or your concern. More directed at Waldman's stylistic comparison to McFadden as being a non sequitor of success in a heavy zone based running game.

There are some concerns about his patience, at times, lack of cutbacks as Falcan Moore has pointed out. But as far as the fit in the scheme... Indiana ran a lot of zone...

[citsalp]

If we get McFadden-like production out of Coleman I'll take it from a 3rd round pick

McFadden in the NFL??? 7yrs in the NFL averaged 606 yards per year, and a whopping 3.6 TD's per year...This is what your expecting from Coleman?

[citsalp]

I don't have an issue with you or your concern. More directed at Waldman's stylistic comparison to McFadden as being a non sequitor of success in a heavy zone based running game.

There are some concerns about his patience, at times, lack of cutbacks as Falcan Moore has pointed out. But as far as the fit in the scheme... Indiana ran a lot of zone...

It's all good...I'm glad he's a Falcon, he's a threat if he can learn, and we can block a ZBS scheme. He has the perfect coach to teach him. Shanny's never drafted a RB this fast or small, so I was surprised we drafted him, but in the third the value was to large to walk away from...

Edited May 14, 2015 by citsalp

[Hashbrown3]

Lol, the man's name is Tevin Coleman. He is his own man. I object to assigning him another man's name or another man's success. His name isn't Darren McFadden. And the professional opinions where folks saw a McFadden likeness was NOT done to assimilate his injury prone tendencies, but rather his lightening-like, one cut explosiveness. So you eyeore's out there might want to CYA when Coleman busts out!! Some haters ain't happy unless they're hatin' or can't get over their Gurley feminine protection pms syndrome...

Edited May 14, 2015 by HASHBROWN3

[Vandy]

McFadden in the NFL??? 7yrs in the NFL averaged 606 yards per year, and a whopping 3.6 TD's per year...This is what your expecting from Coleman?

Pretty much, hopefully without the injuries which skew those stats. Combined him with Freeman we'll be better there than we've been in 3 seasons.

You guys act like Coleman is gonna be a 1,500 yard back. It will be a RB by committee

Edited May 14, 2015 by Vandy

[citsalp]

Lol, the man's name is Tevin Coleman. He is his own man. I object to assigning him another man's name or another man's success. His name isn't Darren McFadden. And the professional opinions where folks saw a McFadden likeness was NOT done to assimilate his injury prone tendencies, but rather his lightening-like, one cut explosiveness. So you eyeore's out there might want to CYA when Coleman busts out!! Some haters ain't happy unless they're hatin' or can't get over their Gurley feminine protection pms syndrome...

I agree, but he hasn't had ONE NFL snap as of yet.. comparisons are not exact, but they are similar in running style.. regardless. Regarding Gurlie I never mentioned I wanted him, I said the exact opposite. I wanted Cobb in the 4th. Happy with Coleman in the third, with fingers crossed.

Edited May 14, 2015 by citsalp