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gazoo

Draft Analysis: Td Was Not The Problem, Smitty Was

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As I read through this epic tribute to the brilliance of The Boy Genius and the trashing of Mike Smith, I can't help wondering how this thread would be exactly opposite in tone and in which direction the finger of guilt for the post-NFCCG melt-down would be pointing.

Had it been Smith who stayed and TD who got fired, I think this thread would go something like, "Mike Smith was 66-46 and had this team 10 yards from the Super Bowl, but that idiot TD kept blowing up the drafts....."

But instead, Smith got the pink slip and TD survived to take a position which is obviously a far more distant role in the draft evaluation and selection process than before. Quinn and Scott are the real powers behind the draft and player acquisition throne now and it's not some dark secret nobody on the outside of FB knows about.

The draft picks TD has hit on have mostly been obvious high-value picks; but the ones he's missed on have seemed like he put all the draft picks on a dart board and handed a blind-folded chimpanzee some darts. TD should have been booted out with Smith, he hired Smith and often professed that both he and Smith were working with one vision and one mind with their drafts.

But TD managed to impress Quinn and saved himself. Or, maybe Blank in the end felt it would be worth keeping him around if only for the sake of continuity as long as he was no longer personally running the draft and scouting departments. Not impressed with TD at all. I think there are probably at least a dozen or more people in TATF that would've done a better job as GM than he has.

I agree one million percent.

Honestly, I really think TD will not be our GM next season (2016). I think Quinn told AB "let's keep Thomas this year, because next year there's someone who's a perfect fit that will be available."

That's nothing but pure speculation, but it really fits what I think I'm reading between the lines. Time will tell if I'm right.

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I count five. Seven if Hageman and Southward take the next step.

But two definitely sounds better as far as your obvious agenda is concerned. Yeah, go with that.

32nd in total team defense sounds pretty good for his agenda too...

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I agree one million percent.

Honestly, I really think TD will not be our GM next season (2016). I think Quinn told AB "let's keep Thomas this year, because next year there's someone who's a perfect fit that will be available."

That's nothing but pure speculation, but it really fits what I think I'm reading between the lines. Time will tell if I'm right.

Exactly which lines are you reading between in your little fantasy book? And in what universe are certain GM candidates "not available" to take a GM job? Dear lord, the leaps of logic that are performed here.

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32nd in total team defense sounds pretty good for his agenda too...

I agree that Smitty failed miserably at identifying and coaching up defensive talent.

See what I did there? Probably not.

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Exactly which lines are you reading between in your little fantasy book? And in what universe are certain GM candidates "not available" to take a GM job? Dear lord, the leaps of logic that are performed here.

You really can't imagine a feasible scenario in which the timing for a GM hire might not quite work out in one offseason? Please.

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You really can't imagine a feasible scenario in which the timing for a GM hire might not quite work out in one offseason? Please.

No. How about you provide one.

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OK. It's a scenario where, for any number of possible reasons, the person they want will be available if they just wait one more year.

Kindly name one of those "possible" reasons. Just one will do.

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So while the team needed a pass rush and it was ignored, that ALL falls on Smitty??

They were both to blame. The organization was structured differently. I still believe TD is on the hot seat until Blank sees improvement in the team. Pioli can easily take over TD's position if need be (although I think TD would be better at managing the cap).

None of us will ever know what the real reason was that we didn't draft any pass rushers for the last few years that could've made a difference in my opinion

Nobody thinks it all falls on any one individual.but there is a reason Smitty was fired, and TD kept his job.

People just need to stop. TD is here for at least one more year, and if this draft turns out as good as it did based off how good it looks now, then he's going to be here for a good bit longer than that.

The vitriol is unwarranted, and sorry, you can't love Dan Quinn,, and hate Thomas Dimitroff, because by the looks of it, they are attached at the hip.Quinn couldn't be more expressive in how much he likes working with him.

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I agree one million percent.

Honestly, I really think TD will not be our GM next season (2016). I think Quinn told AB "let's keep Thomas this year, because next year there's someone who's a perfect fit that will be available."

That's nothing but pure speculation, but it really fits what I think I'm reading between the lines. Time will tell if I'm right.

Have you even seen a Dan Quinn press conference? He's mentioned TD as being the main reason for him wanting the Falcons gig at least 4 or 5 times.

You guys have to stop listening to Jamie Dukes.

Dan and Thomas practically hold hands when they are in public.

Unless this team just collapses, TD isn't leaving anytime soon.

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Joe my memory is bad, was 2011 the year we went out of character

left "the process" and made the Julio trade?

I always thought that was dictated by Arthur Blank but he said this year

he has never injected himself into the draft process. So I must have had

It wrong.

That was the year the Falcons draft philosophy went from the MS model of building for sustained success (which was part of the 'process') to the TD model of going all in on the 'bet the farm because we're just one player away' approach. I can't say with any certainty if ownership authored or co-authored that approach but there was clearly a complete buy-in.

.

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Nobody thinks it all falls on any one individual.but there is a reason Smitty was fired, and TD kept his job.

People just need to stop. TD is here for at least one more year, and if this draft turns out as good as it did based off how good it looks now, then he's going to be here for a good bit longer than that.

The vitriol is unwarranted, and sorry, you can't love Dan Quinn,, and hate Thomas Dimitroff, because by the looks of it, they are attached at the hip.Quinn couldn't be more expressive in how much he likes working with him.

Really like the last couple years of drafts and FAs. Think TD has learned from his mistakes. Think TD has a much better reputation around the league than on this board.

Also want long term stability in the FO, want it to be deserved, but do want it here.

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Kindly name one of those "possible" reasons. Just one will do.

coop, you have 2 talents: (1) you know how to take Falcons talk among Falcons fans and turn it into a very nasty confrontational b1tchy argument, and (2) you know how to focus right in on minor, irrelevant details. You would almost add more value acting as a grammar nazi for the board than to waste everyone's time arguing whether there's a scenario where a team might wait a year for the GM they want.

But since you're wasting everyone's time with it, here's one: a scenario where a desired candidate knows there is a chance he will "inherit" the GM position where he is at if he stays another year. Maybe he's been somewhere for many years, likes it, and feels it is worth sticking around another year to see if he gets that GM spot. And if not, he'd take another opportunity.

I'm sure you'll waste more time saying that would never happen, but you're full of shitt. We've seen coaches do it, and you'll never be able to prove there's no way a GM would ever do the same. If it has happened, or if it does in the future, it's likely we'll never hear about it.

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coop, you have 2 talents: (1) you know how to take Falcons talk among Falcons fans and turn it into a very nasty confrontational b1tchy argument, and (2) you know how to focus right in on minor, irrelevant details. You would almost add more value acting as a grammar nazi for the board than to waste everyone's time arguing whether there's a scenario where a team might wait a year for the GM they want.

But since you're wasting everyone's time with it, here's one: a scenario where a desired candidate knows there is a chance he will "inherit" the GM position where he is at if he stays another year. Maybe he's been somewhere for many years, likes it, and feels it is worth sticking around another year to see if he gets that GM spot. And if not, he'd take another opportunity.

I'm sure you'll waste more time saying that would never happen, but you're full of shitt. We've seen coaches do it, and you'll never be able to prove there's no way a GM would ever do the same. If it has happened, or if it does in the future, it's likely we'll never hear about it.

So, that boils down to, no, I can't give a single example of that happening.

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So, that boils down to, no, I can't give a single example of that happening.

Sorry bro, you fail at reading. Try again, take it slow. (I hate to be so nasty about it. Coop has lowered everyone's game. But I gave the one example he asked for. I guess you skimmed right past it, and I actually believe you normally read much better than that).

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I agree one million percent.

Honestly, I really think TD will not be our GM next season (2016). I think Quinn told AB "let's keep Thomas this year, because next year there's someone who's a perfect fit that will be available."

That's nothing but pure speculation, but it really fits what I think I'm reading between the lines. Time will tell if I'm right.

What I've seen is this stuff, lots more examples of this out there. Don't see any way to read between the lines that Quinn wants TD gone. Be happy to read whatever you read.

From Jeanna at the Falcoholic

"...Part of what Dan Quinn was looking for in a head coaching role was a solid partnership with the GM to facilitate effective team building through the draft and free agency. He has found that in Thomas Dimitroff. Quinn and Dimitroff's chemistry and rapport were evident in yesterday's pre-draft press conference, in both the content of their comments and the ease with which they spoke about their collaboration.

This is good news for a team that has a lot of needs that must be addressed in this draft. If Dimitroff and Quinn are on the same page in terms of needs and the type of players who will best fit in Atlanta's new offensive and defensive schemes, it should increase the chances of success on draft day.

Both Quinn and Dimitroff mentioned their productive partnership in their opening statements yesterday. "I just want to say that Dan and I have been working very hard the last three months together, along with our respective staffs," Dimitroff said, "...and we've been traveling all over the country looking at players, we've been in offices looking at unbelievable amounts of data together and talking about scheme together, so it's been a great learning experience to grow together in this whole process."

Quinn emphasized that the partnership with Dimitroff has lived up to the expectations and hopes he had for that professional relationship coming into his first head coaching role, and he is characteristically fired up for the draft. "When I first got here, I wanted to make sure I could connect with the guy putting the whole thing together," Quinn said. "So Thomas and I have a good partnership going into it. It's been everything I hoped it would be. So we're fired up to get going here."

Quinn understands that it's on him to communicate to Dimitroff which players will fit well in the Falcons' schemes and how they will be featured should Atlanta acquire them. ""We've had a lot of discussion about that and just the way that Thomas and I want to do it, so not really regarding where we've done it before, but how we want to do it now together," Quinn said. "And it goes through this process, my sole job is to try and help Thomas understand how we would feature some of the guys as we play, and so that part, you always have discussion."

And Dimitroff seems to appreciate the clarity Quinn and his staff have in terms of the types of players they believe will be good fits. "Dan and his staff are acutely aware of the type of scheme they want and the type of players they want within that scheme," Dimitroff said, "and I think as - again, from a personnel standpoint, that is vital to put together the right team and bring in the right players that will have a chance to make this football team." Dimitroff even went so far as to label himself and Quinn "co-team builders."

These open lines of communication and the mutual respect that is evident between Dimitroff and Quinn should be conducive to acquiring players who are good fits, both in the locker room and on the field...."

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Sorry bro, you fail at reading. Try again, take it slow. (I hate to be so nasty about it. Coop has lowered everyone's game. But I gave the one example he asked for. I guess you skimmed right past it, and I actually believe you normally read much better than that).

I'm very good at reading, thanks- you gave a theoretical example and were unable to provide an actual example of that happening.

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I'm very good at reading, thanks- you gave a theoretical example and were unable to provide an actual example of that happening.

Horseshitt. You're changing the story to cover your failure to have reading comprehension. The original statement I made was theoretical. I never claimed it had ever happened. Cooper challenged the idea that such a thing could even be possible, and he dared me to give even one hypothetical example, because he didn't think one could exist.

I gave exactly the example he asked for. We aren't hearing anything but crickets from him (which is a major improvement).

Then you came along and said, duh, I guess you can't give an example. You either failed to read my post with the example, or you failed to comprehend the discussion (all 3 relevant posts) well enough to know what was going on. Be man enough to admit you were wrong (or don't, I could care less).

MEANWHILE, BACK ON TOPIC: I truly think they may plan on replacing TD next year. If so, either their guy wasn't available this past off season, or they decided Quinn's hiring was already so late in the off season that it would be smart to wait till next year, or something like that. The timing just didn't work, so they're keeping TD for a year. Just total speculation on my part, but I would not at all be surprised (and I would celebrate).

If you love TD, you will think that's crazy. But if you love TD after seeing what he did to our roster with 5 years of full control, I think that's crazy.

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Gazoo, we will never know exactly how much fault lies w/ whom on the Dimitroff/Smith drafts. Certainly this draft looks better than any that I can recall under Dimitroff regime. I do think Quinn's input and very specific player traits he looks for was invaluable to Thomas/Pioli and the Falcon scouts.

I believe Mike Smith was more "hands-off" on the draft and Thomas ran the show more than you think on the ultimate selections. Thomas had his wings clipped this offseason - had Dan Quinn not wanted Dimitroff, he would have been gone - I have no doubt that Arthur Blank would have fired Dimi had Quinn desired someone else - luckily for Thomas, Quinn wanted him.

TD is showing himself to be a survivor and is smart to defer and just get Quinn what he wants - this certainly bodes well for Dimitroff going forward.

Doesn't really make much sense for Quinn to turn around to Dimitroff and say "I don't want you" when Dimitroff essentially hired the guy. Really, what kind of a person does that?

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Horseshitt. You're changing the story to cover your failure to have reading comprehension. The original statement I made was theoretical. I never claimed it had ever happened. Cooper challenged the idea that such a thing could even be possible, and he dared me to give even one hypothetical example, because he didn't think one could exist.

I gave exactly the example he asked for. We aren't hearing anything but crickets from him (which is a major improvement).

Then you came along and said, duh, I guess you can't give an example. You either failed to read my post with the example, or you failed to comprehend the discussion (all 3 relevant posts) well enough to know what was going on. Be man enough to admit you were wrong (or don't, I could care less).

MEANWHILE, BACK ON TOPIC: I truly think they may plan on replacing TD next year. If so, either their guy wasn't available this past off season, or they decided Quinn's hiring was already so late in the off season that it would be smart to wait till next year, or something like that. The timing just didn't work, so they're keeping TD for a year. Just total speculation on my part, but I would not at all be surprised (and I would celebrate).

If you love TD, you will think that's crazy. But if you love TD after seeing what he did to our roster with 5 years of full control, I think that's crazy.

Sorry, I'm not the one that's wrong here- you can't, by your own admission, find one concrete example of the scenario you propose.

The opposite is actually what's true. Decosta, the ***'t GM in Baltimore, can take any job offered to him. If he doesn't like a situation, he can simply stay put and wait for the next opening. If one doesn't happen before Newsome steps down, he can simply take Newsome's place.

But he's not waiting another year for that, he's just in a great situation.

And, you might want to read my post where I quoted the Falcoholic and tell me what you read into that that shows Quinn wants TD gone next year.

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you can't, by your own admission, find one concrete example of the scenario you propose.

And, you might want to read my post where I quoted the Falcoholic and tell me what you read into that that shows Quinn wants TD gone next year.

I don't need a concrete example. I never did. Coop is the one who implied the claim that no one would ever make themselves unavailable for a GM job. I asked him, "you cannot imagine any situation where that would happen?", and he said no. I presented a realistic situation in which that could happen. End of story.

I was wrong about one thing -- you don't read worth a shitt. That's ok, get some tutoring, keep trying.

As far as your post, yes, I've heard Quinn go on and on about how excited he is to work with TD. It would make sense for him to say that even if he is planning to replace him. After all, if we're keeping him for another year, we need him to do good work. (It's also possible Quinn really means it, and TD is not being replaced next year. Like I said, I'm just speculating).

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coop, you have 2 talents: (1) you know how to take Falcons talk among Falcons fans and turn it into a very nasty confrontational b1tchy argument, and (2) you know how to focus right in on minor, irrelevant details. You would almost add more value acting as a grammar nazi for the board than to waste everyone's time arguing whether there's a scenario where a team might wait a year for the GM they want.

But since you're wasting everyone's time with it, here's one: a scenario where a desired candidate knows there is a chance he will "inherit" the GM position where he is at if he stays another year. Maybe he's been somewhere for many years, likes it, and feels it is worth sticking around another year to see if he gets that GM spot. And if not, he'd take another opportunity.

I'm sure you'll waste more time saying that would never happen, but you're full of shitt. We've seen coaches do it, and you'll never be able to prove there's no way a GM would ever do the same. If it has happened, or if it does in the future, it's likely we'll never hear about it.

So, an aspiring GM would turn down one of only 32 NFL GM jobs in the world on the off chance that he may get another one sometime in the future? And this GM candidate who turns down the offer is the guy our owner is supposed to wait around for, hoping that he'll settle for sloppy seconds?

How about you let us know when you actually enter the workforce and we'll pick the conversation up then? I'm guessing in about ten years from now?

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Problem was, the team and players chosen did not live up to expectations. Was that Smitty's fault? I don't think so. DQ has control over the players on the roster, that's a KNOWN FACT. As for Smitty, who's to say that he never had that opportunity. That means everything. Just saying.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mike Smith. I don't believe he wanted to be here anymore toward the end of his Falcons head coaching career. There needed to be a change in atmosphere, not just coaching staff. Wrong choices were made, the outcome made that well known by all. But No, I'm not going to put all the blame on Smitty at all.

JMO..........

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