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Are We Expecting To Much From Matt Ryan?


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We do expect too much from Matt, but any team in the league that expects their QB to play without an O-line that can protect the QB and make holes for the RB is expecting too much from their QB. And to add on top that Toilolo failed to be even a decent TE for Matt. Julio, Roddy, Matt, and Asamoah/Matthews is really the only keepers on the offensive side of the ball that doesn't need an upgrade. I liked Stone too, but we'll see if he isn't a one-hit wonder.

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I say BS on that too.In fact, luck has very little to do with it.

Determination, perseverance, eliminating excuses and especially eliminating rationalizations (al bad luck always happens to me) are the most common attributes of success.

No. You are 100% wrong. The world doesn't work like that. There are millions of extremely determined people living below the poverty line.

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I say BS on that too.In fact, luck has very little to do with it.

Determination, perseverance, eliminating excuses and especially eliminating rationalizations (al bad luck always happens to me) are the most common attributes of success.

You can't will your line to protect the you. You cannot will your receivers to make a difficult catch. You cannot will the opposing team to call an ill advised pass play on 1st & goal from the one and you cannot will an interception. In fact you cannot will a reversal of a fumble you made because you cannot will the implementation of " the tck rule". Too many variables go into this game with 22 players on the field at one time. No qb is immune to having a complete team around them.

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You've got Philip Rivers and Jeff Hostetler on the same level?

Yikes.

No, I was really thinking about Matt Hasslebeck not Hostelter. I posted in error Matt and Phillip are both much better QB's than Hostetler but ironically he does have a SB ring.

You've got Philip Rivers and Jeff Hostetler on the same level?

Yikes.

No, I was really thinking about Matt Hasslebeck not Hostelter. I posted in error Matt and Phillip are both much better QB's than Hostetler but ironically he does have a SB ring.

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But KOG, doesnt this assume that finding a QB is relatively easy to do.

How many teams in the NFL have been searching for a competent starter for YEARS? A dozen?

When you "build a team" from scratch, you've got ~3 years of a window, at most. Unless you're exceedingly lucky, your chances of finding a competent+ starter during that time is pretty small. Best case scenario is probably a Dalton/Kaepernick thing.

And historically, I think you'd find very few instances of teams being built for a "plug and play" QB. It's basically Wilson....and I think Wilson is significantly better than your typical PnP QB.

I wasn't saying find a guy in three or four years man.

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No one said he did it alone, but you don't understand professional football 101 if you don't know the QB is different from other players on the team with more leadership responsibility than any other player....

So you think someone's "will" to succeed in life does not mean sh!t eh? Gotta say, that's both an incredibly dumb and again incredibly naive statement to make.....You might want to take some personal development classes Larry ....( I suggest Brian Tracy or Jim Rohn) it might help you get out of whatever funk in life you're in, because if you truly believe personal will does not count, then you don't count for much of anything in life, especially when it comes to football..

You also might want to read up some on Brady the person...it's his "personal will" to succeed more than his other skills that set him apart from all other QBs....

Selah....

LOL

There's nothing worse than reducing skill and knowledge to "intangibles" like "will"

As if Russell Wilson had less "will" than Tom Brady.

Or Tom Brady's "will" was great enough to win in 2015 but not 2011.

Brady is the best because he is the most knowledgeable and skillful. That's it. Unless you're comparing extreme examples (Brady vs. Johnny Manziel, for example) none of us are in a position nearly close enough to determine who wants what more. Instead, we (and really I mean you) do this retroactive thing where we find whoever won and say "oh man, he really wanted it more!"

It's nonsense. Brady won a SB in 2015 because his CB had been properly educated on what to expect in that situation and where to expect the ball to go. Then he made a play. Skill and knowledge.

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I wasn't saying find a guy in three or four years man.

No I know you didn't say it....but thats what your plan sort of implies.

You take Team A thats weak in most areas.

You start building the team on the DL/OL. 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders got poured into making sure you have great OLs/DLs. You gotta figure that takes a number of drafts.

Let's say you get to a point where your team has a good OL and a good DL. Now it's time to find a QB. The problem is, the contract clock has been running on all of those OL/DL guys that you're trying to build around. If they're good players, you're going to need to pay them or face losing them to FA.

It's trying to juggle half a dozen positions while trying to do the hardest thing in sports: find a quality NFL starting QB. That gives you a very small window to get things done. I mean, isnt that just what SF did? They missed their window and now they're basically back at square one.

I think you've gotta be agile with your team building. But I think the best way to do it is also the rarest: finding a good QB. Find your QB and then start building your teams with as many good players as you can get your hands on. Draft, free agency, whatever.

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No I know you didn't say it....but thats what your plan sort of implies.

You take Team A thats weak in most areas.

You start building the team on the DL/OL. 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders got poured into making sure you have great OLs/DLs. You gotta figure that takes a number of drafts.

Let's say you get to a point where your team has a good OL and a good DL. Now it's time to find a QB. The problem is, the contract clock has been running on all of those OL/DL guys that you're trying to build around. If they're good players, you're going to need to pay them or face losing them to FA.

It's trying to juggle half a dozen positions while trying to do the hardest thing in sports: find a quality NFL starting QB. That gives you a very small window to get things done. I mean, isnt that just what SF did? They missed their window and now they're basically back at square one.

I think you've gotta be agile with your team building. But I think the best way to do it is also the rarest: finding a good QB. Find your QB and then start building your teams with as many good players as you can get your hands on. Draft, free agency, whatever.

My thing is this. If you are drafting for starters and not for depth, you can end up with some players on your team. You get the right guys in FA and the draft and you make it easier for your QB. I hope we can hurry up in this process though. Matt isn't turning 23 tomorrow. He'll be 30 next month. That's a window of 2yrs in the least and 5-6 years at the most before its time to move on.

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My thing is this. If you are drafting for starters and not for depth, you can end up with some players on your team. You get the right guys in FA and the draft and you make it easier for your QB. I hope we can hurry up in this process though. Matt isn't turning 23 tomorrow. He'll be 30 next month. That's a window of 2yrs in the least and 5-6 years at the most before its time to move on.

Part of me thinks you should never draft for depth (except maybe at QB). I think you'd prefer a guy with some reasonable path to being a starting level player. Whereas a guy like Akeem Dent was sort of always going to be a depth-type LB. Those guys are way easier to find in FA. I'd rather take chances on high upside guys and supplement my depth with bargain FAs. And I think we sort of did that this offseason. We signed a bunch of quality depth guys to fill roles. Now, we need to start shooting for the top level dudes.

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Part of me thinks you should never draft for depth (except maybe at QB). I think you'd prefer a guy with some reasonable path to being a starting level player. Whereas a guy like Akeem Dent was sort of always going to be a depth-type LB. Those guys are way easier to find in FA. I'd rather take chances on high upside guys and supplement my depth with bargain FAs. And I think we sort of did that this offseason. We signed a bunch of quality depth guys to fill roles. Now, we need to start shooting for the top level dudes.

Agreed 100%

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No. You are 100% wrong. The world doesn't work like that. There are millions of extremely determined people living below the poverty line.

I think that is a politically skewed thought, and am not gonna get into that debate.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

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You can't will your line to protect the you. You cannot will your receivers to make a difficult catch. You cannot will the opposing team to call an ill advised pass play on 1st & goal from the one and you cannot will an interception. In fact you cannot will a reversal of a fumble you made because you cannot will the implementation of " the tck rule". Too many variables go into this game with 22 players on the field at one time. No qb is immune to having a complete team around them.

First off, an OL does not fail you on every play. Nor do your receivers drop every difficult catch. Nor do coaches call ill advised plays every play. Nor do you throw an interception every pass.

Those things happen to all QBs, including Brady....if your point is Brady had the best talent each and every year they went to SB or whatever, I think you are dead wrong.

Edited by Vandy
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LOL

There's nothing worse than reducing skill and knowledge to "intangibles" like "will"

As if Russell Wilson had less "will" than Tom Brady.

Or Tom Brady's "will" was great enough to win in 2015 but not 2011.

Brady is the best because he is the most knowledgeable and skillful. That's it. Unless you're comparing extreme examples (Brady vs. Johnny Manziel, for example) none of us are in a position nearly close enough to determine who wants what more. Instead, we (and really I mean you) do this retroactive thing where we find whoever won and say "oh man, he really wanted it more!"

It's nonsense. Brady won a SB in 2015 because his CB had been properly educated on what to expect in that situation and where to expect the ball to go. Then he made a play. Skill and knowledge.

Not sure where you are trying to go with all that gobblegook, but it sure isn't in the ball park of what I was saying.....

Russell Wilson has not had near the career longevity Brady has. although he does obviously have that inner drive to succeed that other similarly talented QBs did not have, as he had to overcome alot of the same obstacles Brady did, such as not being the prototypical NFL standard QB, but he has to do it for as long as Brady before one can compare the two as to how driven they are to succeed....and yes, Manziel is way too easy a comparison, you can compare Wison's drive also to arguably more 'talented'" players like EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Robert Griffin, Vince Young Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, and hundred of other mediocre QBs who lacked that same inner drive to succeed Wilson obviously has.....the answer is as obvious as the nose on your face.

But even though you didn't do it purposefully, you are getting closer to the point without even knowing it........Why do you think Brady is "the most knowledgeable and skillful"?

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My thing is this. If you are drafting for starters and not for depth, you can end up with some players on your team. You get the right guys in FA and the draft and you make it easier for your QB. I hope we can hurry up in this process though. Matt isn't turning 23 tomorrow. He'll be 30 next month. That's a window of 2yrs in the least and 5-6 years at the most before its time to move on.

Isn't that about where Manning was (30ish) when he and Colts finally got over the hump?

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Part of me thinks you should never draft for depth (except maybe at QB). I think you'd prefer a guy with some reasonable path to being a starting level player. Whereas a guy like Akeem Dent was sort of always going to be a depth-type LB. Those guys are way easier to find in FA. I'd rather take chances on high upside guys and supplement my depth with bargain FAs. And I think we sort of did that this offseason. We signed a bunch of quality depth guys to fill roles. Now, we need to start shooting for the top level dudes.

I sort of agree, but taking the Dent example, in mid rounds you aren't finding guys good across the board. In the 3'rd-5'th rounds it'll mostly be guys really good at one thing... stopping the run as a LB, or going deep as a WR, or playing man as a CB, but they may suck against the pass, or have hand issues, or in Zone, respectively. Those guys are good depth/rotation guys because they can do something really well, but you probably don't want them starting, at least for a few years until they get better at their weak points. If you can find a guy to come in as a 5'th rounder and do one thing really well and be good depth... that's a good guy to take. High upside guys left on the board after the 3'rd are usually huge risks to flop too, and if you only draft those guys your team is left without any depth because so many of your drafted players are washing out after a few years.

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First off, an OL does not fail you on every play. Nor do your receivers drop every difficult catch. Nor do coaches call ill advised plays every play. Nor do you throw an interception every pass.

Those things happen to all QBs, including Brady....if your point is Brady had the best talent each and every year they went to SB or whatever, I think you are dead wrong.

My point is no player is super human. Circumstances and luck are factors in winning or getting to the big dance whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Didn't say he had the BEST talent at every position just a pretty complete team and a very good line. When his line has broken down like at the beginning of the season he looked horrible.

No qb can win on his own. He needs a complementary surrounding cast, good coaching and for the ball to occasionally bounce his way now and again in addition to his own talents.

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LOL

There's nothing worse than reducing skill and knowledge to "intangibles" like "will"

As if Russell Wilson had less "will" than Tom Brady.

Or Tom Brady's "will" was great enough to win in 2015 but not 2011.

Brady is the best because he is the most knowledgeable and skillful. That's it. Unless you're comparing extreme examples (Brady vs. Johnny Manziel, for example) none of us are in a position nearly close enough to determine who wants what more. Instead, we (and really I mean you) do this retroactive thing where we find whoever won and say "oh man, he really wanted it more!"

It's nonsense. Brady won a SB in 2015 because his CB had been properly educated on what to expect in that situation and where to expect the ball to go. Then he made a play. Skill and knowledge.

I have to disagree, I don't think Brady is the most knowledgeable or skillful QB.

He was a 6th round draft pick because scouts questioned his frame, arm strength and footwork. He had an average wonderlic score and did not win any awards of merit in college.

Without the drive to be the best each and every year you can't consistently maintain a HOF level of excellence. It hard to reach the top but it's harder to stay on top.

There is a well known saying 20% physical 80% mental. It doesn't pertain to knowledge as much as attributes of your attitude, focus and confidence.

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I have to disagree, I don't think Brady is the most knowledgeable or skillful QB.

He was a 6th round draft pick because scouts questioned his frame, arm strength and footwork. He had an average wonderlic score and did not win any awards of merit in college.

Without the drive to be the best each and every year you can't consistently maintain a HOF level of excellence. It hard to reach the top but it's harder to stay on top.

There is a well known saying 20% physical 80% mental. It doesn't pertain to knowledge as much as attributes of your attitude, focus and confidence.

Drive is something you can't quantify and who is to say Brady and more drive than Ryan, Rivers, or fill in the blank. Could Brady be the product of the perfect storm of system and coaching coupled with is own abilities? I can't say and whether the answer is yes or no doesn't take away from him being one of the all time greats.

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People in here complaining about Ryan homers and in turn being completely fanboy delusional over Brady and others. They are not superman. They depend on their team playing great as well. They are not alone. People who don't get that and totally understand we've never had that make me sad and start questioning age and agenda of posters. We have never had an oline or defense capable of anything more than we've gotten and some reason Matt gets crapped on for it. Its dumb.

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My point is no player is super human. Circumstances and luck are factors in winning or getting to the big dance whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Didn't say he had the BEST talent at every position just a pretty complete team and a very good line. When his line has broken down like at the beginning of the season he looked horrible.

No qb can win on his own. He needs a complementary surrounding cast, good coaching and for the ball to occasionally bounce his way now and again in addition to his own talents.

Those are all fair points, although some misrepresentation of what I said, or rather didn't say. Never said he won games on his own, nor said he was super human. What I did say is the most distinguishing difference between Brady and all other QBs is how driven he is to succeed, and that drive/we'll figure it out mentality and find a way to succeed is contagious.

Love Ryan, he's had very little help last two years, but no way does Brady go 10-22 last two seasons in his prime, here or anywhere. I could see that happen to Manning ,but not Brady.

Edited by Vandy
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People in here complaining about Ryan homers and in turn being completely fanboy delusional over Brady and others. They are not superman. They depend on their team playing great as well. They are not alone. People who don't get that and totally understand we've never had that make me sad and start questioning age and agenda of posters. We have never had an oline or defense capable of anything more than we've gotten and some reason Matt gets crapped on for it. Its dumb.

For the record if referring to me, please find anywhere I've ever complained about Matt Ryan, here or anywhere. if you're questioning MY age or agenda I've been a falcon fan for 40 plus years (going back to Nobis/randy Johnson years) not a fan of new England or anything else Boston .

But I am a lifelong student of successful people in all walks of life, and although you are right conceptually in they all had help, be it mentors, coaches, parenting, education, etc etc....even their failures help them in learning how to overcome obstacles.....but the 1 common trait of all successful people is their inner drive/will to be the best. And Brady from my observance has that more than any other QB I've ever seen in those 40 plus years

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For the record, if you're questioning MY age or agenda I've been a falcon fan for 40 plus years (going back to Nobis/randy Johnson years) not a fan of new England or anything else Boston .

But I am a lifelong student of successful people in all walks of life, and although you are right conceptually in they all had help, be it mentors, coaches, parenting, education, etc etc....even their failures help them in learning how to overcome obstacles.....but the 1 common trait of all successful people is their inner drive/will to be the best. And Brady from my observance has that more than any other QB I've ever seen in those 40 plus years

I see it more in Peyton Manning.

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Lawd, are we still in here debating whether or not football is a team sport? Ryan isn't the problem. Does he make bone headed mistakes sometimes? Yes, every god blessed QB (or other position for that matter) does. People in here accusing others of having blind love for Matt but are oozing over Brady, Rodgers, etc. Wonder what tunes you'll be singing when this team brings home the hardware and Matt is the one under center? It's a collective effort, period. Matt is a dam good QB and we're lucky to have him. Stats back it up, but some of you dont like facts. I digress, go to bed people

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I see it more in Peyton Manning.

All great players have it , but even Peyton doesn't quite have that chip on his shoulder drive/demon/obsession to prove everyone was wrong like Brady has, because he's been that guy since he was a kid. Brady hasn't , he's tasted rejection early and often in life.

I think Rodgers may have that as well, time will tell

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Lawd, are we still in here debating whether or not football is a team sport? Ryan isn't the problem. Does he make bone headed mistakes sometimes? Yes, every god blessed QB (or other position for that matter) does. People in here accusing others of having blind love for Matt but are oozing over Brady, Rodgers, etc. Wonder what tunes you'll be singing when this team brings home the hardware and Matt is the one under center? It's a collective effort, period. Matt is a dam good QB and we're lucky to have him. Stats back it up, but some of you dont like facts. I digress, go to bed people

Nobody's debating nor implying Ryan as being a problem,nor football not being a team game. yes, he's indeed a darn good QB and in my view the leagues most underrated QB

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