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It's About Time We Nitpick Vic.


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Ok, I'm not trying to pretend I'm an expert on Vic Beasley, but what I do know leaves me wondering if he's really what the Falcons need from a top 10 pick. The following are some concerns and questions I have about him. Reasoned responses are welcome.

1. Is he low risk, low reward? There are clear signs he will be a good player, but I see reasons to question if he will ever be great: He was a 5 year college player who didn't 'break out' until his 3rd year. Yes, he's an impressive physical specimen, but he's also had more time to work on his training than some of the younger top prospects.

2. Most of the top pass rushers in the NFL right now are simply bigger dudes than Vic Beasley. Look at the top pass rushers in the NFL today and you will find that most of them weighed more than 250lbs at their respective Combine. People will point to Von Miller, but Miller is more the exception than the rule. There's even reason to wonder if Beasley can maintain being in the 240s. When you see him on the field he looks like a RB playing LB.

3. Will he be a liability against the run? Yes, the Falcons need to pressure QBs, but can Beasley hold up when teams run at him?

4. It appears he would be drafted to play the role that Bruce Irvin played in Seattle. Are there strong indications that he will be better than Irvin? If he brings similar value than Irvin, is that really worth a top 10 pick?

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As a massive VB supporter, some of these are valid questions and here are my responses.

1. "...He was a 5 year college player who didn't 'break out' until his 3rd year..."

He only played for 4 years and the last three is where he was very productive. This is completely normal and expected. Most of the other pass rushers have only one or two years of production. I see this as a positive.

2. "Most of the top pass rushers in the NFL right now are simply bigger dudes than Vic Beasley..."

I'm not a guy who worries too much about size unless we are talking about massive differentials. With exception of a slower Fowler and a project like Dupree, none of the pass rushers are huge guys. Pass rush needs more skill and technique than size. Size is matters more at interior DL.

3. "Will he be a liability against the run?..."

I think this is a legitimate question to ask. At Clemson he was never really asked to set the edge a lot but I think he has the strength to be coached up to do so and his athleticism give him an an ability to be disruptive to both the run and pass.

4. "It appears he would be drafted to play the role that Bruce Irvin played in Seattle. Are there strong indications that he will be better than Irvin?"

This is an odd question. I don't think it matters if he is better or worse than Irvin but rather he adds significant capability to our pass rush that we are getting the QB on the ground or disrupting their rhythm.

Edited by Monolith2001
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Question him all you want. Dude is getting picked top 5. Maybe even top 3.

I highly doubt top 5, and top 3 wont happen.

People are quick to forget, this guy was a mid-late round one prospect prior to the combine.

Now, i think he can play, but i am always weary of guys who are considered 4-5th best pass rusher prior to workouts, then rise like mad after they run. Vernon Gholston comes to mind in that regard (only meaning fast riser after workouts, not college production)

I would be fine taking him, but people around here truly over value this guy.

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Below average run defense.

Doesnt set edge. Gets pushed around in the ground game.

Not impressed with his pass rush moves.

I feel like he's hit his ceiling for the most part. Never really impressed in seasons before. He's been at Clemson forever. Probably would've been a mid 2nd rounder last year. Maybe a first rounder because of how much emphasis being placed upon pass rushers these days.

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I double checked his Clemson profile and it says Beasley redshirted in 2010. What might your other favorite prospects have become had they spent that much time in college? On the plus side he's polished and appears ready to contribute right away. However, will we look back in coming years and regret passing on someone who just hadn't come as far in their development?

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I highly doubt top 5, and top 3 wont happen.

People are quick to forget, this guy was a mid-late round one prospect prior to the combine.

Now, i think he can play, but i am always weary of guys who are considered 4-5th best pass rusher prior to workouts, then rise like mad after they run. Vernon Gholston comes to mind in that regard (only meaning fast riser after workouts, not college production)

I would be fine taking him, but people around here truly over value this guy.

What are you smoking this morning? Mid-Late round prospect before Combine?

At the worst, a 2nd round pick...

Some of the OP's questions are valid points, but in comparison to all of the other players at similar positions in this years draft, I think you will find it hard to find more that 2-3 guys better than Beasley...In today's passing league, much more emphasis is placed on a pass rusher, not setting the edge run stuffer at DE...

Beasley's pass rushing ability is what makes him more valuable to a team, than his run ability...that's why he will be a Top 8 pick..

He will not fall past us at #8...Take that to the Bank (unless Leonard Williams is also on the board).

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I would not mind the Beasley at all.

I cant nit pik the guy but I can go to walters and copy it to here.

Ok here it is from Walters:

Beasley must add weight to play defensive end in the NFL.

Personal: Majoring in sociology. His father played at Auburn and is a high school coach.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2015OLB.php#fFD8GtQq7Hi8ut1R.99
Thanks Walter............. .!.
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you have good points i also wonder about his ability to play the run, the question is...is he going to get better @ that?

-anybody that says he can play the run is lying out of their teeth.

he can rush the passer though ill give him that

These are all valid concerns, and are part of the reason I decided to start leading The Bud Train.

Dupree seems only dimly aware that he has hands at all. But that is just technique. That can be coached: learned.

Having a vert, a 40, a broad jump, and cone drill times competitive with wr's while weighing 270 cannot be coached.

The ability to comfortably and effectively drop into coverage, to turn and run more fluidly than many db's cannot be coached.

Having the burst to be a yard deep in the backfield before the qb is out from under the center cannot be coached.

The selflessness and team-first spirit and clean character cannot be coached.

Dupree has more upside potential, more athleticism, more superstar potential than any other defensive player in this draft. Come on with me and jump on board The Bud Train!

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These are all valid concerns, and are part of the reason I decided to start leading The Bud Train.

Dupree seems only dimly aware that he has hands at all. But that is just technique. That can be coached: learned.

Having a vert, a 40, a broad jump, and cone drill times competitive with wr's while weighing 270 cannot be coached.

The ability to comfortably and effectively drop into coverage, to turn and run more fluidly than many db's cannot be coached.

Having the burst to be a yard deep in the backfield before the qb is out from under the center cannot be coached.

The selflessness and team-first spirit and clean character cannot be coached.

Dupree has more upside potential, more athleticism, more superstar potential than any other defensive player in this draft. Come on with me and jump on board The Bud Train!

I like DuPree as well...what scares me is the thought that we can simply trade back in the draft and still get Dupree...

Like no other teams want him or would be willing to move up in front of us after we traded back...than what?

We miss out on Dupree and Beasley? I'm sorry, but I don't like the other pass rushers enough to take them in the Top 15-20.

I'm not as sold on Dupree at #8 as I am on Beasley...I think at this point I would take the BPA on the board and look for DE in the 2nd round...

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Nobody expected Bruce Irvin to go as high as he did. He was projected to go in the mid to late 20's, but SEA looked passed his huge character concerns and reached strictly due to his pass rushing ability.He wasnt a 3 down player at WV and struggled in coverage .

With VB, his pass rushing skills are on par if not better than Irvin, he is an experienced 3 down player, just average in run support, and is a natural moving around space. Even with Irvin improving in coverage, Beasley is a better LEO prospect out of the gate. Beasley's floor= Irvin. Beasley's ceiling=V.Miller. Anywhere in between is a Fn homerun!

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Been saying alot of this for weeks. Folks are enamored with Beasley due to the combine and forget that football is played on the field with real players. Clemson had more talent on their defense than most teams in the NCAA and Vic shined because of it.

Vic will excel IF the team that drafts him has him in a strictly pass rush role where he pins his ears back and attacks. If he's asked to stop the run or maintain gaps regularly he will look MUCH more ordinary than in Clemson.

Who else in all of College Football will have 3 front seven defenders go in the first 2 rounds?? Clemson does. Stephone Anthony might go 1st round. So could Grady Jarrett. I like Vic too, but it is VERY possible that of the other candidates someone else could fill our needs better for Dan Quinn's (I mean his, not a posters OPINION of what his system will be) LEO position better.

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Loved the way Abe could dip his hips under a tackle...love the way Vic can flatten out against a tackle.

Vic Beasley in a Falcon uniform would be awesome.

I've been saying Beasley's ceiling is john abraham. Very similar players. Both have the same rush skill set, but neither really use their hands well and can be washed out regularly. I'd be okay with that, but Abraham never took over a game when we needed it.

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What are you smoking this morning? Mid-Late round prospect before Combine?

At the worst, a 2nd round pick...

Some of the OP's questions are valid points, but in comparison to all of the other players at similar positions in this years draft, I think you will find it hard to find more that 2-3 guys better than Beasley...In today's passing league, much more emphasis is placed on a pass rusher, not setting the edge run stuffer at DE...

Beasley's pass rushing ability is what makes him more valuable to a team, than his run ability...that's why he will be a Top 8 pick..

He will not fall past us at #8...Take that to the Bank (unless Leonard Williams is also on the board).

He said mid to late ROUND ONE prospect.....
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The LEO (if I'm not mistaken) as described by Pete Caroll and Gus Bradley is more pin ears back and get after the passer than edge setting as a conventional DE. I think it comes down to who the FO feels is good enough to come in day one and win 1v1 matchups. I like my chances with Ray or Beasley on an island out of the gate.

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The LEO (if I'm not mistaken) as described by Pete Caroll and Gus Bradley is more pin ears back and get after the passer than edge setting as a conventional DE. I think it comes down to who the FO feels is good enough to come in day one and win 1v1 matchups. I like my chances with Ray or Beasley on an island out of the gate.

What happened to BPA against filling a need?

I get that Beasley and Ray are fast and can win with speed. But so can Dupree and Gregory and Fowler. The difference is all of them ALSO bring the power element to the game as well.

I know we are looking for a good LEO, but if a player has speed and can play with power, shouldn't they be the selection if they are available at the same time as another player with speed as his only weapon? Cause I'm pretty sure that they ALL can fill the LEO position as they ALL have good 40 times and showed promise in college. Some were asked to do different things, like set the edge.

I maintain that if we simply tell Dupree or Gregory to "go get the passer" they would excel. Both were asked to do MUCH more than Beasley ever was in college.

Edited by MD-FalconFan13
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I've been saying Beasley's ceiling is john abraham. Very similar players. Both have the same rush skill set, but neither really use their hands well and can be washed out regularly. I'd be okay with that, but Abraham never took over a game when we needed it.

Didn't have a 13 win season without Abe...always needed a 2nd option. It's hard to think KB was it.

Vic Beasley is our guy considering Quinn was cool with free agency. Vic is a pass rusher... I have no doubt.

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What happened to BPA against filling a need?

I get that Beasley and Ray are fast and can win with speed. But so can Dupree and Gregory and Fowler. The difference is all of them ALSO bring the power element to the game as well.

I know we are looking for a good LEO, but if a player has speed and can play with power, shouldn't they be the selection if they are available at the same time as another player with speed as his only weapon?

There are several examples of Ray, Beasley (Fowler and Gregory too) winning with speed and power. Those with favorites choose not to acknowledge it. I believe Ray, Beasley, and Gregory are all top 10 talents with Dupree being right behind them. Shane Ray rushing from the inside getting sacks and TFL gets overlooked IMO more than any aspect of all of the top rated pass rushers.
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The LEO (if I'm not mistaken) as described by Pete Caroll and Gus Bradley is more pin ears back and get after the passer than edge setting as a conventional DE. I think it comes down to who the FO feels is good enough to come in day one and win 1v1 matchups. I like my chances with Ray or Beasley on an island out of the gate.

Wish Ray showed more than a positional fit...just don't like him top 10.

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