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Last Mock Draft (For Real): Call It I Hate To Say It But The Pick Is Probably Dupree


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The more I look at the top 10 the more I see us staring at a board that doesn't have Ray, Beasley, Williams, Fowler, and Gregory on it. Gregory has that whole Falcon filter thing going against him. Not a fan of Dupree as everyone here knows, not saying that I don't see him as a great player or possibly being a great player, I just don't see him impacting us as that edge rusher, I see him as more of a true strong side linebacker than a defensive end. Either way, he still has the versatility needed to play the LEO. To me if he isn't a high impact guy as a pass rusher he shouldn't be picked at 8, to rich for me, trading down isn't that simple. You need someone to trade with, they couldn't find that someone last year, no guarantee this year.

Round 1: Bud Dupree LB (Kentucky)- All the other pass rushers are gone, TD and Quinn select Dupree. I consider it a reach, but we need some kind of impact player and more athleticism on defense.

Round 2: Nate Orchard DE (Utah) - Get a real dog along the defensive front, relentless tenacity to cause havoc along the offensive line. Active hands.

Round 3: Mike Davis RB (South Carolina) - Powerful back who can also hit the home run. He has some serious fumble issues, but that is coachable.

Round 4: Ifo Ekpre-Olomu CB (Oregon) - A pick that will probably benefit us in 2016, but he's a top 10 guy aside from medical concerns.

Round 5: Jeremiah Poutasi OG (Utah) - A big guard 6'6 330lbs who can move. He's coming from a spread offense, so he would fit right in to the zone blocking scheme.

Round 6: Josh Robinson RB (Mississippi) - Take another power back to add to the stable. Would also be a great special teams contributor

Round 7: Jeff Luc LB (Cincinnati) - Add to depth to inside linebacker and could also contribute to special teams.

Round 7: (Comp) Will Tye (Stony Brook) - 6'3 270lb TE in primarily run blocking offense who happens to run a 4.48 40 at his pro day. Don't know to much about him, just call it a hunch.

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if we're drafting a guard on day 3 I want Glowinski from WVU

there's literally no reason for us to draft 2 RBs when we already have Freeman and Smith...one of the drafted guys wouldn't make the roster.

Dupree & Orchard are complete opposites...one is an athletic freak with less than ideal production, the other had a lot of production but isn't an NFL caliber athlete. Why even bother wasting your 2nd on Orchard when you got Dupree in the 1st?

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if we're drafting a guard on day 3 I want Glowinski from WVU

there's literally no reason for us to draft 2 RBs when we already have Freeman and Smith...one of the drafted guys wouldn't make the roster.

Dupree & Orchard are complete opposites...one is an athletic freak with less than ideal production, the other had a lot of production but isn't an NFL caliber athlete. Why even bother wasting your 2nd on Orchard when you got Dupree in the 1st?

You know what Kayoh, it is EXTREMELY obvious you have never played a lick of football. I really don't see Orchard as a wasted pick and I see them doubling up on the defensive front early regardless of if it's Dupree, Beasley or who ever. I really don't see the point your trying to make, we don't have any rushers on our defense, I mean what does that have to do with anything. So, if Nate Orchard so happens to get picked up in the tail end of the 1st would that shock you? I kind of question if we are referring to the same team here. I kind of feel you on the running backs though, I just want more depth there, I see us carrying 4 just like before, I guess the fourth guy could come from another late free agent grab.

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You know what Kayoh, it is EXTREMELY obvious you have never played a lick of football. I really don't see Orchard as a wasted pick and I see them doubling up on the defensive front early regardless of if it's Dupree, Beasley or who ever. I really don't see the point your trying to make, we don't have any rushers on our defense, I mean what does that have to do with anything. So, if Nate Orchard so happens to get picked up in the tail end of the 1st would that shock you? I kind of question if we are referring to the same team here. I kind of feel you on the running backs though, I just want more depth there, I see us carrying 4 just like before, I guess the fourth guy could come from another late free agent grab.

Now you're attacking my credibility. Because unless you're a chef, you can't possibly know what tastes good. Right. Stay classy.

My point isn't that Orchard is a wasted pick, it's that there are better alternatives in the 2nd round than drafting another EDGE player who isn't anywhere close to the athlete as the guy you drafted in the first round. Why bother when you can get a 2nd round guard, linebacker or safety? Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe...there are so many players that'll be there in the 2nd round that'll be a bigger upgrade for our team than taking a second edge player. That's my point. You stick to your high school football knowledge, I'll stick to my knowledge of economics and, in this case, opportunity cost. Give me a 2nd round G, LB or FS, and a day 3 EDGE player with athletic upside like Davis Tull, Marcus Rush or Shaq Riddick over a 2nd round DE like Orchard and a day 3 G/LB/FS.

If Orchard gets picked at the tail end of the 1st, it wouldn't shock me, but it'd still be a stupid move imo. College production doesn't necessarily translate to NFL success, and to me Orchard is Jarvis Jones lite.

And yeah, with the RBs, I get the Robinson in the 6th pick, I love that, but Davis in the 3rd is just silly to me with so much talent projected to go there. Xavier Cooper is the first guy that comes to mind who'll most likely be available in the 3rd. Babs isn't getting any younger, Hageman is more of a NT in Quinn's defense, we could use another disruptive DT like him. I just don't like the value of taking a RB that early.

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Now you're attacking my credibility. Because unless you're a chef, you can't possibly know what tastes good. Right. Stay classy.

My point isn't that Orchard is a wasted pick, it's that there are better alternatives in the 2nd round than drafting another EDGE player who isn't anywhere close to the athlete as the guy you drafted in the first round. Why bother when you can get a 2nd round guard, linebacker or safety? Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe...there are so many players that'll be there in the 2nd round that'll be a bigger upgrade for our team than taking a second edge player. That's my point. You stick to your high school football knowledge, I'll stick to my knowledge of economics and, in this case, opportunity cost. Give me a 2nd round G, LB or FS, and a day 3 EDGE player with athletic upside like Davis Tull, Marcus Rush or Shaq Riddick over a 2nd round DE like Orchard and a day 3 G/LB/FS.

If Orchard gets picked at the tail end of the 1st, it wouldn't shock me, but it'd still be a stupid move imo. College production doesn't necessarily translate to NFL success, and to me Orchard is Jarvis Jones lite.

And yeah, with the RBs, I get the Robinson in the 6th pick, I love that, but Davis in the 3rd is just silly to me with so much talent projected to go there. Xavier Cooper is the first guy that comes to mind who'll most likely be available in the 3rd. Babs isn't getting any younger, Hageman is more of a NT in Quinn's defense, we could use another disruptive DT like him. I just don't like the value of taking a RB that early.

You said Orchard was a wasted pick, now that's not your point? Huh...

Yeah, that's where we differ, and trust me if I was actually attacking your credibility it would be more obvious than that. But anyway that's where we differ, I'm not concerned about how "athletic" he is as much as you are, from experience and just generally watching the game, I just don't think that its all about that.

Just so there is no more confusion here.

"My point isn't that Orchard is a wasted pick, it's that there are better alternatives in the 2nd round than drafting another EDGE player who isn't anywhere close to the athlete as the guy you drafted in the first round. Why bother when you can get a 2nd round guard, linebacker or safety? Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe...there are so many players that'll be there in the 2nd round that'll be a bigger upgrade for our team than taking a second edge player. That's my point. You stick to your high school football knowledge, I'll stick to my knowledge of economics and, in this case, opportunity cost. Give me a 2nd round G, LB or FS, and a day 3 EDGE player with athletic upside like Davis Tull, Marcus Rush or Shaq Riddick over a 2nd round DE like Orchard and a day 3 G/LB/FS."

-We don't have to go there with Dupree, we both know we are on two different sides on the coin when it comes to that. I think we win on defense at the line of scrimmage, that's my opinion, I don't see Dupree being a DE, I stated that in the mock, he could play it but I see his strength being a stand up guy and being able to be on the move, so I took a LB and DE in MY MOCK. You are saying pick up a DE and LB, I picked up a LB and DE. I guess people who love economics and football are also very nid-picky. I'm happy for you and your Economics background, but I don't think economics and football is a good mix. Another thing, regarding Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe... Every team you see winning the Super Bowl has this, look at the Seahawks when they won it, there talent didn't stop at Bruce Irvin, they also had Clemons, Bennett, Avril. You pick a SB winner, I will show you a monster defensive front. All we are coming to the table with is really Dupree and Biermann, maybe Schofield, by your standards there, since Dupree is a DE to you. Playing the O-line is a menatility more than athleticism or how fast you run a 40. That's why I like Poutasi as a decent pick late in the draft, but that's just me. You don't pick up a FS before a DE, if a DE is on the board and you don't have at least buck end DEs. There is a scale of importance regarding positions in football (QB>DE>LT>CB> everything else) and I think we are relatively good at safety, and you really don't know how good your middle linebackers and safeties are if you both can't stop the run and can't rush the passer effectively. Basically, if you can't stop the run, rush the passer, players can't just do there job, just there job meaning play freely, our safeties can JUST do there job, we just need to get the front better. You always have to help if the front is constantly getting dictated to. I like what I saw out of Ishmael, Willie Mo is coming back healthy hopefully....

We have enough (talent) on offense, and you don't/shouldn't go off of "athleticism" when it comes to the offensive line. I'm just of the mindset of getting the defensive front above average first. It really doesn't matter who we have in the secondary if we CAN'T STOP THE RUN AND CAN'T RUSH THE PASSER. Both starts up front, one player isn't even going to change the needle in the right direction.

Just to get it straight, I didn't play football in high school either.

Edited by datchrisb1
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Now you're attacking my credibility. Because unless you're a chef, you can't possibly know what tastes good. Right. Stay classy.

My point isn't that Orchard is a wasted pick, it's that there are better alternatives in the 2nd round than drafting another EDGE player who isn't anywhere close to the athlete as the guy you drafted in the first round. Why bother when you can get a 2nd round guard, linebacker or safety? Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe...there are so many players that'll be there in the 2nd round that'll be a bigger upgrade for our team than taking a second edge player. That's my point. You stick to your high school football knowledge, I'll stick to my knowledge of economics and, in this case, opportunity cost. Give me a 2nd round G, LB or FS, and a day 3 EDGE player with athletic upside like Davis Tull, Marcus Rush or Shaq Riddick over a 2nd round DE like Orchard and a day 3 G/LB/FS.

If Orchard gets picked at the tail end of the 1st, it wouldn't shock me, but it'd still be a stupid move imo. College production doesn't necessarily translate to NFL success, and to me Orchard is Jarvis Jones lite.

And yeah, with the RBs, I get the Robinson in the 6th pick, I love that, but Davis in the 3rd is just silly to me with so much talent projected to go there. Xavier Cooper is the first guy that comes to mind who'll most likely be available in the 3rd. Babs isn't getting any younger, Hageman is more of a NT in Quinn's defense, we could use another disruptive DT like him. I just don't like the value of taking a RB that early.

Basically, last year we couldn't stop the run and we couldn't rush the passer. We couldn't run the ball.

Run game: Us being able to run the ball isn't about athleticism man, it's a mindset a will, you become a good running team in training camp, all you need is some flat foreheaded, knuckle dragging, mean nasty, "where did they go George" dudes, 40 times and short shuttles are near irrelevant there man. You line up right in front of another grown man, one inch in front of you, a 40 time and short shuttle isnt' what you rely on. You have to WANT to do the physical version of putting a baby over your lap and spanking it to another grown man just as big as you, wait 15 - 30 seconds and do that all over again. Dupree doesn't have that, Marpet doesn't have that, J.J. Watt does have that, heck Randy Gregory has that, and so does Orchard. Your not calling on your short shuttle time when your doing that, so I hope your Ali Marpet infatuation isn't based on how he runs in his hanes underwear. Us running the ball successfully will give us the pass protection that is just a package deal.

Pass rush: If your against adding to the D-line and adding a safety cool, i just don't see the FOOTBALL logic here. We are last in pressuring the QB, the worse team, its' single players that had more pressure on the QB than our entire team. If you want to add your one little guy who by the way isn't who you think he is that's on you. Don't be shocked if they go pass rusher 1st then pass rusher 2nd.

Stopping the run: see "run game" same principle, we have the guys to a certain degree we need to do both. You are too concerned about athleticism, the point is is he athletic enough to do the job, Orchard is above average athletically to do the job and he is a DOG. Dupree might be the better player in gym shorts, that's just something I don't care too much for.

Edited by datchrisb1
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Now you're attacking my credibility. Because unless you're a chef, you can't possibly know what tastes good. Right. Stay classy.

My point isn't that Orchard is a wasted pick, it's that there are better alternatives in the 2nd round than drafting another EDGE player who isn't anywhere close to the athlete as the guy you drafted in the first round. Why bother when you can get a 2nd round guard, linebacker or safety? Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe...there are so many players that'll be there in the 2nd round that'll be a bigger upgrade for our team than taking a second edge player. That's my point. You stick to your high school football knowledge, I'll stick to my knowledge of economics and, in this case, opportunity cost. Give me a 2nd round G, LB or FS, and a day 3 EDGE player with athletic upside like Davis Tull, Marcus Rush or Shaq Riddick over a 2nd round DE like Orchard and a day 3 G/LB/FS.

If Orchard gets picked at the tail end of the 1st, it wouldn't shock me, but it'd still be a stupid move imo. College production doesn't necessarily translate to NFL success, and to me Orchard is Jarvis Jones lite.

And yeah, with the RBs, I get the Robinson in the 6th pick, I love that, but Davis in the 3rd is just silly to me with so much talent projected to go there. Xavier Cooper is the first guy that comes to mind who'll most likely be available in the 3rd. Babs isn't getting any younger, Hageman is more of a NT in Quinn's defense, we could use another disruptive DT like him. I just don't like the value of taking a RB that early.

Even with me picking Dupree in the first, Nate Orchard unquestionably would have a greater impact on the game than Eric Rowe and Stephone Anthony. That's not even close, no contest there. The Marpet and Orchard thing is close. I can get my potiential starting guard in my zone blocking scheme later in the draft. Marpet is an mid 2nd early 3rd anyway to me. If you think Ali Marpet out of Harbert is starting in the NFL straight out of the draft I would like to know your dealer, I would like some of that stuff. If we pick him up, you want see him even being close to being the Ali Marpet you think of him being until mid 2016 season.

Edited by datchrisb1
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You said Orchard was a wasted pick, now that's not your point? Huh...

Yeah, that's where we differ, and trust me if I was actually attacking your credibility it would be more obvious than that. But anyway that's where we differ, I'm not concerned about how "athletic" he is as much as you are, from experience and just generally watching the game, I just don't think that its all about that.

-We don't have to go there with Dupree, we both know we are on two different sides on the coin when it comes to that. I think we win on defense at the line of scrimmage, that's my opinion, I don't see Dupree being a DE, I stated that in the mock, he could play it but I see his strength being a stand up guy and being able to be on the move, so I took a LB and DE in MY MOCK. You are saying pick up a DE and LB, I picked up a LB and DE. I guess people who love economics and football are also very nid-picky. I'm happy for you and your Economics background, but I don't think economics and football is a good mix. Another thing, regarding Ali Marpet, Stephone Anthony, Eric Rowe... Every team you see winning the Super Bowl has this, look at the Seahawks when they won it, there talent didn't stop at Bruce Irvin, they also had Clemons, Bennett, Avril. You pick a SB winner, I will show you a monster defensive front. All we are coming to the table with is really Dupree and Biermann, maybe Schofield, by your standards there, since Dupree is a DE to you. Playing the O-line is a menatility more than athleticism or how fast you run a 40. That's why I like Poutasi as a decent pick late in the draft, but that's just me. You don't pick up a FS before a DE, if a DE is on the board and you don't have at least buck end DEs. There is a scale of importance regarding positions in football (QB>DE>LT>CB> everything else) and I think we are relatively good at safety, and you really don't know how good your middle linebackers and safeties are if you both can't stop the run and can't rush the passer effectively. Basically, if you can't stop the run, rush the passer, players can't just do there job, just there job meaning play freely, our safeties can JUST do there job, we just need to get the front better. You always have to help if the front is constantly getting dictated to. I like what I saw out of Ishmael, Willie Mo is coming back healthy hopefully....

We have enough (talent) on offense, and you don't/shouldn't go off of "athleticism" when it comes to the offensive line. I'm just of the mindset of getting the defensive front above average first. It really doesn't matter who we have in the secondary if we CAN'T STOP THE RUN AND CAN'T RUSH THE PASSER. Both starts up front, one player isn't even going to change the needle in the right direction.

Just to get it straight, I didn't play football in high school either.

Basically, last year we couldn't stop the run and we couldn't rush the passer. We couldn't run the ball.

Run game: Us being able to run the ball isn't about athleticism man, it's a mindset a will, you become a good running team in training camp, all you need is some flat foreheaded, knuckle dragging, mean nasty, "where did they go George" dudes, 40 times and short shuttles are near irrelevant there man. You line up right in front of another grown man, one inch in front of you, a 40 time and short shuttle isnt' what you rely on. You have to WANT to do the physical version of putting a baby over your lap and spanking it to another grown man just as big as you, wait 15 - 30 seconds and do that all over again. Dupree doesn't have that, Marpet doesn't have that, J.J. Watt does have that, heck Randy Gregory has that, and so does Orchard. Your not calling on your short shuttle time when your doing that, so I hope your Ali Marpet infatuation isn't based on how he runs in his hanes underwear. Us running the ball successfully will give us the pass protection that is just a package deal.

Pass rush: If your against adding to the D-line and adding a safety cool, i just don't see the FOOTBALL logic here. We are last in pressuring the QB, the worse team, its' single players that had more pressure on the QB than our entire team. If you want to add your one little guy who by the way isn't who you think he is that's on you. Don't be shocked if they go pass rusher 1st then pass rusher 2nd.

Stopping the run: see "run game" same principle, we have the guys to a certain degree we need to do both. You are too concerned about athleticism, the point is is he athletic enough to do the job, Orchard is above average athletically to do the job and he is a DOG. Dupree might be the better player in gym shorts, that's just something I don't care too much for.

Even with me picking Dupree in the first, Nate Orchard unquestionably would have a greater impact on the game than Eric Rowe and Stephone Anthony. That's not even close, no contest there. The Marpet and Orchard thing is close. I can get my potiential starting guard in my zone blocking scheme later in the draft. Marpet is an mid 2nd early 3rd anyway to me. If you think Ali Marpet out of Harbert is starting in the NFL straight out of the draft I would like to know your dealer, I would like some of that stuff. If we pick him up, you want see him even being close to being the Ali Marpet you think of him being until mid 2016 season.

1. Not every position requires elite athletes in order for them to succeed. WR, RB, SS, C, FB, QB, K, P...that's about it. Every other position I can think of has a certain baseline for athleticism where anybody that falls below the line is simply not athletic enough to succeed in the NFL. Show me the CB who's 40 time is lower than his short shuttle and I'll show you a guy who's about as close to a guaranteed bust as any player can possibly be without having actually played an NFL down. Show me the edge rusher who runs a 7.5+ second 3 cone drill and I'll show you another insta-bust. There are certain numbers that matter. Extreme athleticism doesn't guarantee success, but an extreme lack of athleticism essentially guarantees failure. Orchard's athletic profile suggests he's significantly more likely to bust than to succeed. He's similar athletically to Jeremiah Attaochu and (not quite as much, but still comparable) Jarvis Jones, two guys who were picked highly and haven't lived up to their status in recent drafts.

2. It's possible for somebody to look impressive on film, but still be terrible in the NFL. That's why we do the combine in the first place. Vernon Gholston was amazing on tape, but the combine exposed him as a guy who wasn't athletic enough to hack it in the NFL, the Jets ignored that, and they got burned for it. You know who else was really impressive on tape? Quinton Coples, Whitney Mercilus, Aaron Maybin...there are a lot of EDGE players who look great on film, then test poorly at the combine and fail in the NFL. Wanna know how many EDGE guys in the last DECADE have tested poorly at the combine and still gone on to have successful NFL careers? 2. Aldon Smith and Justin Tuck. And Aldon Smith was injured when he did his testing. Every other pass rusher who's been drafted in the first 3 rounds in the last decade, if they tested poorly at the combine, they had subpar careers. There's absolutely no denying the correlation.

3. The Patriots just beat the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. New England had a subpar pass rush and really only one guy who's capable of getting after the QB on any kind of consistent basis, Chandler Jones...a guy who, I might add, had a phenomenal 3 cone drill for the size he weighed in at, at the combine in 2012.

4. This whole idea of "attitude" I do like, but having a nasty attitude doesn't make you a better football player. Look no further than Jacques Smith to see a perfect example of that. The best pass rusher in the NFL right now, Justin Houston, I don't think anybody would say that he has an aggressive attitude on the field. As a matter of fact, a direct quote from his draft profile from 2011: "needs to show more intensity shedding and playing in a phone booth". So he wasn't intense enough, how'd that work out?

And finally, 5. Obviously offensive linemen aren't going to be running 40 yard dashes or 20 yard short shuttles in the actual games. That's not what you're looking at, though. Force = Mass x Acceleration. A 300+ pound offensive lineman running a sub-5 40 means he's able to generate a significant amount of force. ESPECIALLY if he's got an impressive 10-yard split, and that's accentuated even more if he's got impressive jumps. Ali Marpet checks off every single one of those categories. He's 307 lbs, ran 4.98 with a 1.71 split, best among all OL this year. His jumps were also top 5 amongst OLinemen this year. He's a guy who's able to generate significant push with his lower body, and he put up 30 reps of 225, tied for 5th best amongst all OLinemen with Cam Erving, so he's also got a pretty significant amount of upper body strength. Top that off with his agility drills, both of which were 2nd best among all OL behind only Jake Fisher. Marpet is hands down the best physical specimen in this OL class, but that's not all: go watch the Senior Bowl. The practices and the game itself, watch it. Marpet got beat one time in one on ones, by Danny Shelton on a bull rush. Shelton tried the same move on Marpet later, and got stonewalled. Nobody else beat Marpet in one on ones. Then during the game, he was Evan Mathis-esque. He redirected 315+ pound defensive linemen with the greatest of ease, he stonewalled everyone in pass pro, he didn't give up a single PRESSURE much less a sack, he was immaculate. Marpet is a first round talent who'll end up getting drafted in the third round because NFL scouts are too ignorant to look past the "D3" label. And even if you don't like Marpet, in our zone blocking scheme, athleticism is EXTREMELY important because you aren't just lining up and getting into a sumo wrestling match with a guy, you're on the move on nearly every running play, and your job isn't necessarily to push a guy backwards, it's to not get pushed backwards yourself.

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1. Not every position requires elite athletes in order for them to succeed. WR, RB, SS, C, FB, QB, K, P...that's about it. Every other position I can think of has a certain baseline for athleticism where anybody that falls below the line is simply not athletic enough to succeed in the NFL. Show me the CB who's 40 time is lower than his short shuttle and I'll show you a guy who's about as close to a guaranteed bust as any player can possibly be without having actually played an NFL down. Show me the edge rusher who runs a 7.5+ second 3 cone drill and I'll show you another insta-bust. There are certain numbers that matter. Extreme athleticism doesn't guarantee success, but an extreme lack of athleticism essentially guarantees failure. Orchard's athletic profile suggests he's significantly more likely to bust than to succeed. He's similar athletically to Jeremiah Attaochu and (not quite as much, but still comparable) Jarvis Jones, two guys who were picked highly and haven't lived up to their status in recent drafts.

2. It's possible for somebody to look impressive on film, but still be terrible in the NFL. That's why we do the combine in the first place. Vernon Gholston was amazing on tape, but the combine exposed him as a guy who wasn't athletic enough to hack it in the NFL, the Jets ignored that, and they got burned for it. You know who else was really impressive on tape? Quinton Coples, Whitney Mercilus, Aaron Maybin...there are a lot of EDGE players who look great on film, then test poorly at the combine and fail in the NFL. Wanna know how many EDGE guys in the last DECADE have tested poorly at the combine and still gone on to have successful NFL careers? 2. Aldon Smith and Justin Tuck. And Aldon Smith was injured when he did his testing. Every other pass rusher who's been drafted in the first 3 rounds in the last decade, if they tested poorly at the combine, they had subpar careers. There's absolutely no denying the correlation.

3. The Patriots just beat the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. New England had a subpar pass rush and really only one guy who's capable of getting after the QB on any kind of consistent basis, Chandler Jones...a guy who, I might add, had a phenomenal 3 cone drill for the size he weighed in at, at the combine in 2012.

4. This whole idea of "attitude" I do like, but having a nasty attitude doesn't make you a better football player. Look no further than Jacques Smith to see a perfect example of that. The best pass rusher in the NFL right now, Justin Houston, I don't think anybody would say that he has an aggressive attitude on the field. As a matter of fact, a direct quote from his draft profile from 2011: "needs to show more intensity shedding and playing in a phone booth". So he wasn't intense enough, how'd that work out?

And finally, 5. Obviously offensive linemen aren't going to be running 40 yard dashes or 20 yard short shuttles in the actual games. That's not what you're looking at, though. Force = Mass x Acceleration. A 300+ pound offensive lineman running a sub-5 40 means he's able to generate a significant amount of force. ESPECIALLY if he's got an impressive 10-yard split, and that's accentuated even more if he's got impressive jumps. Ali Marpet checks off every single one of those categories. He's 307 lbs, ran 4.98 with a 1.71 split, best among all OL this year. His jumps were also top 5 amongst OLinemen this year. He's a guy who's able to generate significant push with his lower body, and he put up 30 reps of 225, tied for 5th best amongst all OLinemen with Cam Erving, so he's also got a pretty significant amount of upper body strength. Top that off with his agility drills, both of which were 2nd best among all OL behind only Jake Fisher. Marpet is hands down the best physical specimen in this OL class, but that's not all: go watch the Senior Bowl. The practices and the game itself, watch it. Marpet got beat one time in one on ones, by Danny Shelton on a bull rush. Shelton tried the same move on Marpet later, and got stonewalled. Nobody else beat Marpet in one on ones. Then during the game, he was Evan Mathis-esque. He redirected 315+ pound defensive linemen with the greatest of ease, he stonewalled everyone in pass pro, he didn't give up a single PRESSURE much less a sack, he was immaculate. Marpet is a first round talent who'll end up getting drafted in the third round because NFL scouts are too ignorant to look past the "D3" label. And even if you don't like Marpet, in our zone blocking scheme, athleticism is EXTREMELY important because you aren't just lining up and getting into a sumo wrestling match with a guy, you're on the move on nearly every running play, and your job isn't necessarily to push a guy backwards, it's to not get pushed backwards yourself.

The game tape is more important than the combine, it's not the other way around. Your not going to find anyone coach, scout, GM, etc... that thinks like that. That's a bass ackwards way of doing things. The medical is probably 10 times more important than the field drills. The only thing the field drills are is a check or a double check to certain traits that you look for ON THE GAME TAPE, man. The combine isn't the end all be all, and it doesn't hold importance over the tape. Combine is important, not that important...

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The game tape is more important than the combine, it's not the other way around. Your not going to find anyone coach, scout, GM, etc... that thinks like that. That's a bass ackwards way of doing things. The medical is probably 10 times more important than the field drills. The only thing the field drills are is a check or a double check to certain traits that you look for ON THE GAME TAPE, man. The combine isn't the end all be all, and it doesn't hold importance over the tape. Combine is important, not that important...

Please explain then why Beasley shot up everyone's charts after his combine?

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The game tape is more important than the combine, it's not the other way around. Your not going to find anyone coach, scout, GM, etc... that thinks like that. That's a bass ackwards way of doing things. The medical is probably 10 times more important than the field drills. The only thing the field drills are is a check or a double check to certain traits that you look for ON THE GAME TAPE, man. The combine isn't the end all be all, and it doesn't hold importance over the tape. Combine is important, not that important...

Let me ask you a question.

Suppose you had a job that required you to spend hours upon hours studying something, and your results were pretty good, but still varied and not necessarily guaranteed to be good. But then, you found a trend that allowed you to just plug some numbers into a spreadsheet, manipulate them using a formula, and then get a result, and those results actually had a higher success rate than what you were getting before by spending the hours studying. What would you do? Would you put the spreadsheet away and say "no, no, this isn't right, I've got to keep studying and getting worse results"? Because that's exactly what you're trying to tell me to do by insisting that EDGE players are easier to scout by watching film than by using combine numbers.

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The more I look at the top 10 the more I see us staring at a board that doesn't have Ray, Beasley, Williams, Fowler, and Gregory on it. Gregory has that whole Falcon filter thing going against him. Not a fan of Dupree as everyone here knows, not saying that I don't see him as a great player or possibly being a great player, I just don't see him impacting us as that edge rusher, I see him as more of a true strong side linebacker than a defensive end. Either way, he still has the versatility needed to play the LEO. To me if he isn't a high impact guy as a pass rusher he shouldn't be picked at 8, to rich for me, trading down isn't that simple. You need someone to trade with, they couldn't find that someone last year, no guarantee this year.Round 1: Bud Dupree LB (Kentucky)- All the other pass rushers are gone, TD and Quinn select Dupree. I consider it a reach, but we need some kind of impact player and more athleticism on defense.Round 2: Nate Orchard DE (Utah) - Get a real dog along the defensive front, relentless tenacity to cause havoc along the offensive line. Active hands.Round 3: Mike Davis RB (South Carolina) - Powerful back who can also hit the home run. He has some serious fumble issues, but that is coachable.Round 4: Ifo Ekpre-Olomu CB (Oregon) - A pick that will probably benefit us in 2016, but he's a top 10 guy aside from medical concerns.Round 5: Jeremiah Poutasi OG (Utah) - A big guard 6'6 330lbs who can move. He's coming from a spread offense, so he would fit right in to the zone blocking scheme.Round 6: Josh Robinson RB (Mississippi) - Take another power back to add to the stable. Would also be a great special teams contributorRound 7: Jeff Luc LB (Cincinnati) - Add to depth to inside linebacker and could also contribute to special teams.Round 7: (Comp) Will Tye (Stony Brook) - 6'3 270lb TE in primarily run blocking offense who happens to run a 4.48 40 at his pro day. Don't know to much about him, just call it a hunch.

I could see us drafting pass rushers in back to back picks. Its not like we haven't ever double dipped at a position before. Dupree and Orchard would be awesome at 8 and 42. Round 3 Eric Rowe or a left guard. Take Langford in 4 and you've got a solid haul.

Edited by Ben Day Hoe
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The more I look at the top 10 the more I see us staring at a board that doesn't have Ray, Beasley, Williams, Fowler, and Gregory on it. Gregory has that whole Falcon filter thing going against him. Not a fan of Dupree as everyone here knows, not saying that I don't see him as a great player or possibly being a great player, I just don't see him impacting us as that edge rusher, I see him as more of a true strong side linebacker than a defensive end. Either way, he still has the versatility needed to play the LEO. To me if he isn't a high impact guy as a pass rusher he shouldn't be picked at 8, to rich for me, trading down isn't that simple. You need someone to trade with, they couldn't find that someone last year, no guarantee this year.

Round 1: Bud Dupree LB (Kentucky)- All the other pass rushers are gone, TD and Quinn select Dupree. I consider it a reach, but we need some kind of impact player and more athleticism on defense.

Round 2: Nate Orchard DE (Utah) - Get a real dog along the defensive front, relentless tenacity to cause havoc along the offensive line. Active hands.

Round 3: Mike Davis RB (South Carolina) - Powerful back who can also hit the home run. He has some serious fumble issues, but that is coachable.

Round 4: Ifo Ekpre-Olomu CB (Oregon) - A pick that will probably benefit us in 2016, but he's a top 10 guy aside from medical concerns.

Round 5: Jeremiah Poutasi OG (Utah) - A big guard 6'6 330lbs who can move. He's coming from a spread offense, so he would fit right in to the zone blocking scheme.

Round 6: Josh Robinson RB (Mississippi) - Take another power back to add to the stable. Would also be a great special teams contributor

Round 7: Jeff Luc LB (Cincinnati) - Add to depth to inside linebacker and could also contribute to special teams.

Round 7: (Comp) Will Tye (Stony Brook) - 6'3 270lb TE in primarily run blocking offense who happens to run a 4.48 40 at his pro day. Don't know to much about him, just call it a hunch.

Mike Davis in the third? WHY!???! There are so many prospects that will still probably be available. So much depth that one will fall to us.

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Let me ask you a question.

Suppose you had a job that required you to spend hours upon hours studying something, and your results were pretty good, but still varied and not necessarily guaranteed to be good. But then, you found a trend that allowed you to just plug some numbers into a spreadsheet, manipulate them using a formula, and then get a result, and those results actually had a higher success rate than what you were getting before by spending the hours studying. What would you do? Would you put the spreadsheet away and say "no, no, this isn't right, I've got to keep studying and getting worse results"? Because that's exactly what you're trying to tell me to do by insisting that EDGE players are easier to scout by watching film than by using combine numbers.

What? Scientific theory right, lets take your theory on solving a problem using A FORMULA. Lets use say kinematic formulas compared to quantum particle entanglement since you seem to be a physics buff. First off, no matter what formula in physics you use it still guess work and will never beat the actual real thing. Now you are looking at this thing as if its simple kinematics, just 3 dimensions, but your observation is more close to quantum physics where the recorded results can't be easily predicted. DUDE, THERE IS NO SUCH FORMULA to predict a player like that. You want find a team out there that believes in these equations (theory) above the actual real thing (real life/ game tape). They use them but the tape is king, period!

Teams can spend months in combined man hours actually analyzing GAME FILM on one player. That said player goes to the combine and posts specific numbers. That team goes BACK TO THE GAME FILM and finds that specific trait ON THE FIELD! That's how it works, it all ends with you seeing it present ON THE FIELD.

I mean why are you posting all of these guys actually BREAKING DOWN FILM if at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the combine, OR THE COMBINE, NOT THE FILM IS WHAT MATTERS. Teams don't break down combine film, the player runs/jumps whatever, the team records the number, then they go back break down the film and find traits of said number, EXACTLY WHAT ALL THESE GUYS FILMS THAT YOU ARE POSTING ON HERE ARE DOING!!!

I don't care what kind of chart, graph, spread sheet, or whatever you go off of, IT DOESN'T OUT WEIGH FILM WORK!!! Actually seeing that trait on the field. Teams use these formulas that you are talking about, but it doesn't outweigh the film work. Seriously, I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread, you guys are litterally acting like all these guys need to do is work out for a year and show up at the combine, forget actually playing the game. This is ridiculous...

Why put the people who conduct the film work on here if you don't believe in it Kayoh?!!!

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ILB/FS/TE

I picked up a TE in the mock, I feel you on needing one, we picked up 2 in free agency but I don't know if Tony M will make the team and how good Tamme will play without Peyton. I don't see them going early with one, we have bigger needs I picked up one late. Free safety again MIGHT be a need but you don't know how big, last year we couldn't stop the run, couldn't rush the passer. We picked up a 3rd rounder in Southward last year, we need better athletes on the D-line before we need a ILB or FS. You don't know what you have in either position until our D-line is playing better.

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Please explain then why Beasley shot up everyone's charts after his combine?

Beasley didn't 'SHOOT UP' everyone's charts, Beasley was a mid to late 1st round pick based off his film work. He went from that to a top 10 based on him being 15 pounds heavier and carrying it well, basically ON FILM he was at most the 15th pick draft dude. He moved 5 spots based on the combine, he wasn't some 5th round guy and all of sudden showed up at the combine and because of one day is now a top 10 pick. Next!

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I could see us drafting pass rushers in back to back picks. Its not like we haven't ever double dipped at a position before. Dupree and Orchard would be awesome at 8 and 42. Round 3 Eric Rowe or a left guard. Take Langford in 4 and you've got a solid haul.

Yeah, I thought about that, picking up Rowe in the third, I just believe we probably are good at safety with a NFL caliber D-line and thought being able to run the ball better would do the team better overall, plus I didn't see Rowe beating out Southward with already a year of experience under his belt as a starter.

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Mike Davis in the third? WHY!???! There are so many prospects that will still probably be available. So much depth that one will fall to us.

Just thought we needed a running back, because of Shanahan and there free agency moves, I see them using either our 3rd or 4th on one. I think its probably either RB then O-line or O-line then RB regarding our 3rd and 4th picks.

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