Jump to content

White Cop Shoots Unarmed Black Guy In Back 8 Times, Plants Taser On Him. Just Another Day In America.


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 592
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The problem is systematic. The only reason they are throwing this guy to the wolves without a fight is this video, but I promise you it would be a different story otherwise.

Eating butt is what's hot in the streets right now.

Way past time to mount cameras on these supercops.

I had a long discussion where I was repeatedly told that although racial harmony was a goal for all of society, it was up to blacks to prove to everyone else that the stereotypes forced on them were untrue by coming together as a race/hive-mind and ending violent crime among themselves for however long it would take to prove that they could be civilized just like the rest of us.

In retrospect I'm glad I didn't express outright offense to that argument, even though it sounds like something a Neo-Nazi would say on Law & Order, apparently it's the getting offended part that'll get you nowadays.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess so.

It's weird to me that the right-leaning people of this board have become so supportive of big government intervention and the police state mentality.

Them being against this sort of thing used to be their one redeeming quality.

For myself, I'm against the institutions (government), not the individual (street cops).

Policemen are just everyday people trying to live their lives and make a living doing one of the hardest conceivable jobs out there: enforcing the law in an ultra pc environment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a long discussion where I was repeatedly told that although racial harmony was a goal for all of society, it was up to blacks to prove to everyone else that the stereotypes forced on them were untrue by coming together as a race/hive-mind and ending violent crime among themselves for however long it would take to prove that they could be civilized just like the rest of us.

In retrospect I'm glad I didn't express outright offense to that argument, even though it sounds like something a Neo-Nazi would say on Law & Order, apparently it's the getting offended part that'll get you nowadays.

No you weren't, that's a gross exaggeration of what was said...

Link to post
Share on other sites

People's attitudes will not change without something to encourage the change. It's not like people can just turn off their perceptions of what they've seen and experienced like a light switch. People have to have a reason to change their views. IF the black community does their part then I would be willing to bet that perceptions would change and you see more people not give benefit of the doubt, etc. In the legalization thread, I listed out how to pretty much nullify gangs out of the equation and also freeing a large portion of the prisoners you refer to. What do you propose as a solution?

Like this. This post starts off as a statement that perception is completely immutable without external reasons forcing perception to change, then it's about how black people have to change in order to change people's perception of them. Do black people not also have perspective that requires outside effort to change? Is that apparent weakness in their consciousness compensated by the ability to operate as a hive-mind in order to reduce crime rates among their kind in order to "justify" making the legal system more fair and cops less likely to shoot them in the back? You're giving solutions that aren't going to happen for the same reasons the War on Drugs is still going, and in the meantime suggesting black people merely tame their own the way people that watch Fox News think Muslims should just end terrorism if they "really" want the U.S. to stop bombing the Middle East.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Like this. This post starts off as a statement that perception is completely immutable without external reasons forcing perception to change, then it's about how black people have to change in order to change people's perception of them. Do black people not also have perspective that requires outside effort to change? Is that apparent weakness in their consciousness compensated by the ability to operate as a hive-mind in order to reduce crime rates among their kind in order to "justify" making the legal system more fair and cops less likely to shoot them in the back? You're giving solutions that aren't going to happen for the same reasons the War on Drugs is still going, and in the meantime suggesting black people merely tame their own the way people that watch Fox News think Muslims should just end terrorism if they "really" want the U.S. to stop bombing the Middle East.

It's painfully asinine, and a foundational premise in the continuing problem of racism in America. The suggestion that the victim of racism must somehow change the mind of the racist perpetuates racism.

Cap's statement also suggests that critical thinking about one's own perception of the world is a Herculean task, which is telling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Like this. This post starts off as a statement that perception is completely immutable without external reasons forcing perception to change, then it's about how black people have to change in order to change people's perception of them. Do black people not also have perspective that requires outside effort to change? Is that apparent weakness in their consciousness compensated by the ability to operate as a hive-mind in order to reduce crime rates among their kind in order to "justify" making the legal system more fair and cops less likely to shoot them in the back? You're giving solutions that aren't going to happen for the same reasons the War on Drugs is still going, and in the meantime suggesting black people merely tame their own the way people that watch Fox News think Muslims should just end terrorism if they "really" want the U.S. to stop bombing the Middle East.

Yet you completely leave out what I said the majority could do for their "part". You don't get to parse out the conversation to suit your needs. I flat out said that the legal system needed to be reformed, re-trained and re-organized to foster trust. In return, black communities would, in essence, police themselves, be mentors, etc. since gang members, etc aren't exactly going to listen to a 40 year old white dude. Not sure why you edited out the fact that I said the government would have to take the first steps and initiate action and just skip to this but that only looks agenda driven to me or only reading what you want to read...

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's painfully asinine, and a foundational premise in the continuing problem of racism in America. The suggestion that the victim of racism must somehow change the mind of the racist perpetuates racism.

Cap's statement also suggests that critical thinking about one's own perception of the world is a Herculean task, which is telling.

Not when you actually quote it with the entire first half of the suggestion that was conveniently omitted not that either of you obviously give a **** about responding in good faith...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet you completely leave out what I said the majority could do for their "part". You don't get to parse out the conversation to suit your needs. I flat out said that the legal system needed to be reformed, re-trained and re-organized to foster trust. In return, black communities would, in essence, police themselves, be mentors, etc. since gang members, etc aren't exactly going to listen to a 40 year old white dude. Not sure why you edited out the fact that I said the government would have to take the first steps and initiate action and just skip to this but that only looks agenda driven to me or only reading what you want to read...

I absolutely mentioned the part where you recommended things that won't happen, such as segregating police forces nationwide and decriminalizing all drugs, as if they were real world solutions that could be matched by a legion of Morgan Freemans and Bagger Vances stamping out gang violence among people of a similar hue. I just don't consider a rhetorical approach to justifying institutional discrimination to be better than a fanatical one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely mentioned the part where you recommended things that won't happen, such as segregating police forces nationwide and decriminalizing all drugs, as if they were real world solutions that could be matched by a legion of Morgan Freemans and Bagger Vances stamping out gang violence among people of a similar hue. I just don't consider a rhetorical approach to justifying institutional discrimination to be better than a fanatical one.

So nevermind re-training law enforcement and reforming it huh? Only focus on the parts that you can bend to fit your argument? How intellectually dishonest of you. Of course maybe we can all just snap our fingers and everyone will magically stop hating everyone and it'll be rainbows and unicorns for all. You guys need a serious dose of reality in addition to even out your idealism...

Link to post
Share on other sites

So nevermind re-training law enforcement and reforming it huh? Only focus on the parts that you can bend to fit your argument? How intellectually dishonest of you. Of course maybe we can all just snap our fingers and everyone will magically stop hating everyone and it'll be rainbows and unicorns for all. You guys need a serious dose of reality in addition to even out your idealism...

Bro do you really want to sit here and try to argue that while increased scrutiny of racial conflict and excess violence in law enforcement isn't feasible, it makes perfect sense to attempt to re-train and segregate police forces across the nation so that individuals don't have to interact with law enforcement of a separate race?

I don't want to belabor the obvious, but it has to be said again, your idea would never happen, suggesting it is consciously avoiding addressing a real-world problem with an applicable solution, and you're still trying to take the position that you're presenting the "realistic" side of the argument, as if not only could your idea be put into action, but that you have some way of knowing the short and long-term implications of enacting such drastic measures without the support of the general public, much less any sort of workable plan for forwarding the idea in actual legislation, creating a system of oversight, and then (dear God) attempting to apply the idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro do you really want to sit here and try to argue that while increased scrutiny of racial conflict and excess violence in law enforcement isn't feasible, it makes perfect sense to attempt to re-train and segregate police forces across the nation so that individuals don't have to interact with law enforcement of a separate race?

I don't want to belabor the obvious, but it has to be said again, your idea would never happen, suggesting it is consciously avoiding addressing a real-world problem with an applicable solution, and you're still trying to take the position that you're presenting the "realistic" side of the argument, as if not only could your idea be put into action, but that you have some way of knowing the short and long-term implications of enacting such drastic measures without the support of the general public, much less any sort of workable plan for forwarding the idea in actual legislation, creating a system of oversight, and then (dear God) attempting to apply the idea.

And your idea of a solution is what? So far all I've heard is "people just need to change their attitudes" by some miraculous way. It's easy to take shots at ideas but to not respond with ideas of your own doesn't exactly present alternatives does it? I never claimed to have all the right answers. I simply named some things that "could" be done that I believe would help. The "segregation" (which really isn't a segregation at all) is temporary. If the problem is white cops killing blacks unjustly then doesn't it make sense to remove them from patrolling those affected communities until retraining and reshaping law enforcement takes place and relationships are repaired? I don't believe any of it is near as dramatic as you presented it but hey, feel free to contribute your suggestions that you believe are doable and would foster the changes needed. Maybe your ideas are better than mine, I just haven't read them yet...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to belabor the obvious, but it has to be said again, your idea would never happen, suggesting it is consciously avoiding addressing a real-world problem with an applicable solution, and you're still trying to take the position that you're presenting the "realistic" side of the argument, as if not only could your idea be put into action, but that you have some way of knowing the short and long-term implications of enacting such drastic measures without the support of the general public, much less any sort of workable plan for forwarding the idea in actual legislation, creating a system of oversight, and then (dear God) attempting to apply the idea.

Capologist summarized.

The onus of correcting a logical fallacy, and racial prejudice, should not be on the innocent victim of racial prejudice. Practical solutions involve a loud, open discussion about inequality, rooted in factual data, and followed by consequences for people engaging in racism. Segregating people due to racial prejudice is not only unrealistic, it's comically offensive. Sheltering racists only ensures that racism will continue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And your idea of a solution is what? So far all I've heard is "people just need to change their attitudes" by some miraculous way. It's easy to take shots at ideas but to not respond with ideas of your own doesn't exactly present alternatives does it? I never claimed to have all the right answers. I simply named some things that "could" be done that I believe would help. The "segregation" (which really isn't a segregation at all) is temporary. If the problem is white cops killing blacks unjustly then doesn't it make sense to remove them from patrolling those affected communities until retraining and reshaping law enforcement takes place and relationships are repaired? I don't believe any of it is near as dramatic as you presented it but hey, feel free to contribute your suggestions that you believe are doable and would foster the changes needed. Maybe your ideas are better than mine, I just haven't read them yet...

My "idea" is exactly what's happening at present, widening the dialogue on the nature of institutional discrimination, particularly in law enforcement and the judicial system, and reevaluating the tendency for the media and the public alike to either ignore discrimination or take up for the system in place in situations such as this one. I'm not proposing something more drastic both because there's no point to playing pretend with hypothetical legislation that would never get public approval or get past the courts, and because the expansion of dialogue is necessary for any real change. Your counter to that position has been that racism is simply endemic to the police, and the solution is a combination of short-term fixes to law enforcement that won't happen, and the Moran Freemans and Bagger Vances talking to black kids across the nation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My "idea" is exactly what's happening at present, widening the dialogue on the nature of institutional discrimination, particularly in law enforcement and the judicial system, and reevaluating the tendency for the media and the public alike to either ignore discrimination or take up for the system in place in situations such as this one. I'm not proposing something more drastic both because there's no point to playing pretend with hypothetical legislation that would never get public approval or get past the courts, and because the expansion of dialogue is necessary for any real change. Your counter to that position has been that racism is simply endemic to the police, and the solution is a combination of short-term fixes to law enforcement that won't happen, and the Moran Freemans and Bagger Vances talking to black kids across the nation.

Re-training and completely reforming law enforcement standards are not "short-term" but your suggestion is "talk about it" and do what we are currently doing. Yeah, that's gotten us a lot of progress hasn't it? People are beyond the point of just talking. Something actually has to happen to effect the change. It's not just going to happen of its own volition...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re-training and completely reforming law enforcement standards are not "short-term" but your suggestion is "talk about it" and do what we are currently doing. Yeah, that's gotten us a lot of progress hasn't it? People are beyond the point of just talking. Something actually has to happen to effect the change. It's not just going to happen of its own volition...

You know why discussion produces slow change? Because people like you waste time with unrealistic, ridiculous fixes, while failing to call racism to task.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re-training and completely reforming law enforcement standards are not "short-term" but your suggestion is "talk about it" and do what we are currently doing. Yeah, that's gotten us a lot of progress hasn't it? People are beyond the point of just talking. Something actually has to happen to effect the change. It's not just going to happen of its own volition...

Expanding dialogue to the point that we can deal with an issue as it is rather than rely on old ways of thinking ("we just need black people to talk to their own, that's what they're comfortable with") that have perpetuated the issue is the only way to deal with any social problem where the public and the institutions don't have a full enough awareness of what the problem is. Assuming that a solution has to be found simultaneous to understanding the full scope of the problem or else we need to retreat from acquired knowledge and rely on discrimination and ignorance to deal with it in the present is the sort of ***-backward thinking that keeps the War on Drugs and the War on Terror going strong as ever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...