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The Shotfather

White Cop Shoots Unarmed Black Guy In Back 8 Times, Plants Taser On Him. Just Another Day In America.

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Not sure I understand what you are asking here. What are the worst stereotypes of your race as you see them?

Everything I've detailed over the last two pages and then some. From an explicitly racial viewpoint that allows for no other perspective, white people represent virtually all of the wealth in this country, all of the buying power and representation in addition to most of the actual representatives in government, and white people fuel the drug trade while painting blacks as the primary culprits of drug crime in America, which has resulted in blacks being incarcerated at rates that can't possibly be justified given any statistical estimate of their drug dealing and usage compared to whites. If blacks need black people to talk them out of joining gangs, do we also need white leaders to talk white people out of certain lobbying practices and powdered cocaine?

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Excuse my ignorance here but how has society been conditioned to see the worst in black people?

Let me apologize up front Cappy, because in order to make my point, I'm going to bring up your statement from a few years ago (the same thing that Memphisto has been hammering you over), so bear with me, but please don't take what I've said as being malicious, ok?

Society has been conditioned to see the worst in black people, because I believe, that is part of the overall plan of some truly diabolical and racist azz people/groups that have an agenda..................and even good white people start to believe some of the BS that is spewed by the media, and politicians, etc, that is put out there by the puppetmasters (say what you want to about Memphisto, he is 100% correct about the person behind the curtain). Well, give me some examples of conditioning Andrews_31, well, allow me:

Cappy, you yourself took a ride through the hood a few years ago, and frankly, had diarrhea of the keyboard. I find it amazing that good people can ride through these impoverished areas and proclaim that everyone they see "sitting on their porch" is a lazy bum, but not stop to think, MOST of these people are in situations like that by design. Yet, these people are basically thrown into a "Thunderdome" no-win, hopeless type of situation.........and the best they can do is try and survive. Ever wonder about the projects, the hood, and think about why these people are concentrated in certain areas, no jobs to speak of within miles (****, most of what was there or available was relocated to Asia years ago), liquor stores on every corner, J.D. Byrider type raggedy azz car dealers on every block, predatory businesses rampant in the area, cost of living sky high (non owned by black people), CIA flooded these areas with the worst drugs known to mankind..........................but yet all you see are lazy bums sitting on the stoop drinking 40s, really? Want to know why a good person like you can quickly make that assessment without considering the underlying cause and why the area looks like a wasteland? You've been conditioned to believe that! But Cappy, you're a good guy and you acknowledge growth, but you see my point!

I want to continue this conversation, but right now, I have to go to a meeting (yes, on Friday afternoon), so bear with me, hold that thought, and I'll come back later and finish what I was trying to say later, ok?

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Excuse my ignorance here but how has society been conditioned to see the worst in black people?

I'm intrigued. If you have no concern then how does the cycle ever stop? I can't see a young black male who may be attracted to the gang lifestyle and creating the stereotypes would ever listen to anything someone other than black people that they can relate to would tell them. I know they wouldn't care what I have to say as to how to live their lives and carry themselves. First question they'd ask is "what the *(*W do you know about being black?" And to that I'd have absolutely no answer so my advice/opinion would be worthless to them...

i shouldn't have said it isn't my concern cause i still volunteer in the inner city for young men. The teens need to know their is an alternate lifestyle. But you can't save everyone. Making sure my daughter is safe and taken care of is the first and most important thing for me. But you still can't control someone actions. This is something i tell young people all the time. Worry about things you can control

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Everything I've detailed over the last two pages and then some. From an explicitly racial viewpoint that allows for no other perspective, white people represent virtually all of the wealth in this country, all of the buying power and representation in addition to most of the actual representatives in government, and white people fuel the drug trade while painting blacks as the primary culprits of drug crime in America, which has resulted in blacks being incarcerated at rates that can't possibly be justified given any statistical estimate of their drug dealing and usage compared to whites. If blacks need black people to talk them out of joining gangs, do we also need white leaders to talk white people out of certain lobbying practices and powdered cocaine?

Dead on with drug legislation for sure. As you can see in the drug thread, I'm opposed to drug legislation because I know that drug laws were initially passed due to racial reasons not for legitimate reasons. I think it's a little different though because lobbying is political and that's not just white people. Is it the majority? Absolutely but I don't think that's a racial thing, that's a money and corruption thing. Not sure how you fix that to be honest. Unfortunately, removing lobbyists would simply be backroom handshake deals so at least the lobbying has some degree of transparency to it. I have ideas but none that I'd make public...lol.

I certainly agree that the criminal justice system is hardly just when it comes to racial lines (and more to the point, economic lines) and definitely needs to be reformed but again, that's more of a political issue that a certain race of people can't fix but a large voting block can initiate that change. That involves all people of all races.

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Dead on with drug legislation for sure. As you can see in the drug thread, I'm opposed to drug legislation because I know that drug laws were initially passed due to racial reasons not for legitimate reasons. I think it's a little different though because lobbying is political and that's not just white people. Is it the majority? Absolutely but I don't think that's a racial thing, that's a money and corruption thing. Not sure how you fix that to be honest. Unfortunately, removing lobbyists would simply be backroom handshake deals so at least the lobbying has some degree of transparency to it. I have ideas but none that I'd make public...lol.

I certainly agree that the criminal justice system is hardly just when it comes to racial lines (and more to the point, economic lines) and definitely needs to be reformed but again, that's more of a political issue that a certain race of people can't fix but a large voting block can initiate that change. That involves all people of all races.

That's my point when I paint those as "white issues in a limited perspective," dealing with problems using only race as a way of conceiving who is most at fault hardly communicates anything except that the U.S. has a long history of racism and we've not yet seen full equality. You saying black people need to solve the problems in their own community isn't saying anything, because the problem's didn't start in the "black community," don't persist because of a genetic predisposition to violence, and won't be solved by people of the same race telling "their own" not to commit crime.

What's more, blaming them for the stereotypes they're subjected to because of a minority of individuals is an act of privilege in addition to ignorance: you didn't even see where I was going with this line of posts before now because you don't know what it's like to experience racism, much less live with strangers and police making the assumption that you're a violent individual because of the color of your skin. If you had, you'd probably find it offensive and/or less than helpful if someone else suggested that the solution to the fear and anger that's been pounded into your brain since you were a child was to talk to someone with the same skin color as you so you wouldn't feel so bad about people not only stereotyping you before you could understand where those stereotypes came from, but blaming you for them having those stereotypes before you knew what prejudice meant.

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Let me apologize up front Cappy, because in order to make my point, I'm going to bring up your statement from a few years ago (the same thing that Memphisto has been hammering you over), so bear with me, but please don't take what I've said as being malicious, ok?

Society has been conditioned to see the worst in black people, because I believe, that is part of the overall plan of some truly diabolical and racist azz people/groups that have an agenda..................and even good white people start to believe some of the BS that is spewed by the media, and politicians, etc, that is put out there by the puppetmasters (say what you want to about Memphisto, he is 100% correct about the person behind the curtain). Well, give me some examples of conditioning Andrews_31, well, allow me:

Cappy, you yourself took a ride through the hood a few years ago, and frankly, had diarrhea of the keyboard. I find it amazing that good people can ride through these impoverished areas and proclaim that everyone they see "sitting on their porch" is a lazy bum, but not stop to think, MOST of these people are in situations like that by design. Yet, these people are basically thrown into a "Thunderdome" no-win, hopeless type of situation.........and the best they can do is try and survive. Ever wonder about the projects, the hood, and think about why these people are concentrated in certain areas, no jobs to speak of within miles (****, most of what was there or available was relocated to Asia years ago), liquor stores on every corner, J.D. Byrider type raggedy azz car dealers on every block, predatory businesses rampant in the area, cost of living sky high (non owned by black people), CIA flooded these areas with the worst drugs known to mankind..........................but yet all you see are lazy bums sitting on the stoop drinking 40s, really? Want to know why a good person like you can quickly make that assessment without considering the underlying cause and why the area looks like a wasteland? You've been conditioned to believe that! But Cappy, you're a good guy and you acknowledge growth, but you see my point!

I want to continue this conversation, but right now, I have to go to a meeting (yes, on Friday afternoon), so bear with me, hold that thought, and I'll come back later and finish what I was trying to say later, ok?

I don't mind anything I've ever said being brought up especially when it's done in the manner you do it in. What I don't care for is the constant badgering and accusatory tone that Mephisto presents it with as if I'm some rabid rebel flag flying KKK member who wants to start lynching again. I find it very offensive to come at me that way when he's never met me, had any in-depth conversation with me to find out who I am. I get along great with Mephisto in TATF. i really found it to be some sort of personal attack to bring it up here when I'm right there with everyone else about what this cop did. It's all about how it's presented really. Come at me like most do as an adult and I have no probs with it. Hopefully, you read this and take something from it Mephisto, I really don't care to have any kind of grudge/whatever with anyone here.

I guess that's why I see things the way I do though when I see people with brown paper bags (regardless of race btw because not all are black) just sitting on a porch drinking the day away or not drinking at all but just sitting there day in and day out doing nothing to change their situation. As for the projects, I don't disagree a bit with you on why they are there, I know that's exactly correct especially on the drugs. I guess because I grew up in some poor neighborhoods and came out of it fine, everyone else can too. So for that particular thought, it boils down to me not understanding why they can't do as I did and work their way out of a bad situation or why they refuse to put forth an effort instead of sitting around all day.

Understand also that I live in a minority majority city so it's not that I'm in an uppity white suburban area. Macon, GA (Bibb County) is probably very familiar to many on this thread. Now just like I said back then, I don't believe all black people do this, I only spoke to the people I saw on a fairly daily basis as I drove down 2nd street and that area of town (downtown area for those that don't know). When you come back to continue the thought (or anyone else that wants to for that matter), help me understand why it's viewed as a hopeless no-win situation. I get the title pawn predatory lenders, shady car dealers, etc but the housing in that area isn't high rent at all, it's very low and mostly section 8 so very heavily subsidized by the government so what keeps them from trying to get out? I'm glad that we can have these discussions and hope we all can participate without going for people's throats or trying to run each other down.

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That's my point when I paint those as "white issues in a limited perspective," dealing with problems using only race as a way of conceiving who is most at fault hardly communicates anything except that the U.S. has a long history of racism and we've not yet seen full equality. You saying black people need to solve the problems in their own community isn't saying anything, because the problem's didn't start in the "black community," don't persist because of a genetic predisposition to violence, and won't be solved by people of the same race telling "their own" not to commit crime.

What's more, blaming them for the stereotypes they're subjected to because of a minority of individuals is an act of privilege in addition to ignorance: you didn't even see where I was going with this line of posts before now because you don't know what it's like to experience racism, much less live with strangers and police making the assumption that you're a violent individual because of the color of your skin. If you had, you'd probably find it offensive and/or less than helpful if someone else suggested that the solution to the fear and anger that's been pounded into your brain since you were a child was to talk to someone with the same skin color as you so you wouldn't feel so bad about people not only stereotyping you before you could understand where those stereotypes came from, but blaming you for them having those stereotypes before you knew what prejudice meant.

Here's the deal though, you use words like "blame" and "fault" and that's not where I'm coming from. I saw that angle earlier. I'm not saying "black people need to solve their problems", I'm saying that the only people that CAN influence change are going to be black people. As I said previously, I can go talk, encourage, etc until I'm blue in the face but young black men aren't going to give a hoot about what I say to them. It's going to take strong black people to initiate that change. In other words, we need a lot more Furious Styles' in the world. It's not about who's to blame or who's at fault, it's a matter of what would be effective to change perceived ideas. Law enforcement has to be better trained, that's obvious and that's on them/us (the citizens to demand it) then they need to repair relationships within communities. I like the idea of having black cops handle black areas in order to regain trust and truly work for the community's best interest. That's a great suggestion (sorry, forgot who made it).

It's not all one-sided though. All those changes could be made and if young black men do not change the behaviors that contribute to the stereotypes (again, as eatcorn said, stereotypes are born from statistics or what people see in the news or perhaps in person) then those attitudes are still going to be there. There is no magical action white people can take to fix the problem Both sides have to work together to build trust and eliminate the issues piece by piece. Won't get there without working together though...

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I don't give it that sweet. Never have. Never will.

So are you saying you can't discuss the subject matter like a mature adult?

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So are you saying you can't discuss the subject matter like a mature adult?

I'm saying I expect a man to able to take the heat instead of wanting someone to package it with a greeting card and a teddy bear.

I'm not tolerant of bigotry. Dancing around the bush with sweet discussion for decades did what? Nothing. This isn't the 60's.

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Here's the deal though, you use words like "blame" and "fault" and that's not where I'm coming from. I saw that angle earlier. I'm not saying "black people need to solve their problems", I'm saying that the only people that CAN influence change are going to be black people. As I said previously, I can go talk, encourage, etc until I'm blue in the face but young black men aren't going to give a hoot about what I say to them. It's going to take strong black people to initiate that change. In other words, we need a lot more Furious Styles' in the world. It's not about who's to blame or who's at fault, it's a matter of what would be effective to change perceived ideas. Law enforcement has to be better trained, that's obvious and that's on them/us (the citizens to demand it) then they need to repair relationships within communities. I like the idea of having black cops handle black areas in order to regain trust and truly work for the community's best interest. That's a great suggestion (sorry, forgot who made it).

It's not all one-sided though. All those changes could be made and if young black men do not change the behaviors that contribute to the stereotypes (again, as eatcorn said, stereotypes are born from statistics or what people see in the news or perhaps in person) then those attitudes are still going to be there. There is no magical action white people can take to fix the problem Both sides have to work together to build trust and eliminate the issues piece by piece. Won't get there without working together though...

How do you suppose people work together if the only solution you propose for addressing the superficial problem of violence among young black males is going to be through other black people? Would it not affect change if white people were as indignant about the rate at which young black men are sent to prison on drug charges compared to whites, and if they were as hesitant as blacks to give officers the benefit of the doubt when a confrontation results in a dead black person and their excuses range from "he went for my gun" to "my taser's uncomfortable?" We absolutely have to work together as a society, because changing the condition that creates disproportionate numbers of violent offenders in certain parts of a society cannot be understood, much less addressed, by only dealing with the demographics they belong to in a vacuum.

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I'm saying I expect a man to able to take the heat instead of wanting someone to package it with a greeting card and a teddy bear.

I'm not tolerant of bigotry. Dancing around the bush with sweet discussion for decades did what? Nothing. This isn't the 60's.

I don't see Cap hating anyone so I see you don't know the definition of bigot
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I'm saying I expect a man to able to take the heat instead of wanting someone to package it with a greeting card and a teddy bear.

I'm not tolerant of bigotry. Dancing around the bush with sweet discussion for decades did what? Nothing. This isn't the 60's.

I can take "heat" just fine, I don't care for the badgering/bully tactics you try to pull. Discuss it like a "man"--a grown man--we'll get along fine otherwise don't bother because I won't waste my time on it...

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How do you suppose people work together if the only solution you propose for addressing the superficial problem of violence among young black males is going to be through other black people? Would it not affect change if white people were as indignant about the rate at which young black men are sent to prison on drug charges compared to whites, and if they were as hesitant as blacks to give officers the benefit of the doubt when a confrontation results in a dead black person and their excuses range from "he went for my gun" to "my taser's uncomfortable?" We absolutely have to work together as a society, because changing the condition that creates disproportionate numbers of violent offenders in certain parts of a society cannot be understood, much less addressed, by only dealing with the demographics they belong to in a vacuum.

People's attitudes will not change without something to encourage the change. It's not like people can just turn off their perceptions of what they've seen and experienced like a light switch. People have to have a reason to change their views. IF the black community does their part then I would be willing to bet that perceptions would change and you see more people not give benefit of the doubt, etc. In the legalization thread, I listed out how to pretty much nullify gangs out of the equation and also freeing a large portion of the prisoners you refer to. What do you propose as a solution?

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People's attitudes will not change without something to encourage the change. It's not like people can just turn off their perceptions of what they've seen and experienced like a light switch. People have to have a reason to change their views. IF the black community does their part then I would be willing to bet that perceptions would change and you see more people not give benefit of the doubt, etc. In the legalization thread, I listed out how to pretty much nullify gangs out of the equation and also freeing a large portion of the prisoners you refer to. What do you propose as a solution?

You mean aside from what I suggested in the post you were responding to? You're talking about attitude and perception and then talking about how black people need to change black people's minds in a conversation about snuffing out prejudice and bringing our society towards greater equality. I'm saying it's very directly a matter of perception for all races, in this case dealing specifically with racism against blacks and reliance on stereotypes to understand real-world situations, and making the problem of perception in the society as a whole the issue of the minority being discriminated against perpetuates all related social ills by failing to address the prejudice that exists outside of that minority or even suggesting a wider perspective is necessary to those that don't belong to that minority.

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You mean aside from what I suggested in the post you were responding to? You're talking about attitude and perception and then talking about how black people need to change black people's minds in a conversation about snuffing out prejudice and bringing our society towards greater equality. I'm saying it's very directly a matter of perception for all races, in this case dealing specifically with racism against blacks and reliance on stereotypes to understand real-world situations, and making the problem of perception in the society as a whole the issue of the minority being discriminated against perpetuates all related social ills by failing to address the prejudice that exists outside of that minority or even suggesting a wider perspective is necessary to those that don't belong to that minority.

All you really said in all that is that you think the solution is for white people to change their attitudes with no reason for doing so other than it seems to be the right thing to do. That's not a real world solution. Sure, it sounds great in a sociology lecture or a philosophy paper but people aren't going to change their perceptions and attitudes without seeing some reason to do so. Telling someone to change their perspective and the other party will reciprocate sounds great in theory but you are asking for trust where neither side has done anything to earn it. Repealing drug laws that were implemented based on racial prejudice and releasing those non-violent offenders certainly addresses the prejudice in the justice system and is a direct acknowledgement of it. Reforming law enforcement with black officers serving predominantly black communities until trust can be built back up are all things that I've suggested for the majority to do. For what you said the opposite is also true. If the minority goes above and beyond to break the stereotypes then the majority would recognize that and perceive differently but that's still saying one party should effect change while the other sits back and waits to act based on the results of that change. No, both sides have to equally take steps to solve the problem simultaneously...

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I can take "heat" just fine, I don't care for the badgering/bully tactics you try to pull. Discuss it like a "man"--a grown man--we'll get along fine otherwise don't bother because I won't waste my time on it...

I don't care if you address it or not. Just don't think people forget your own behavior before you point fingers or try to act like an unbiased person on matters such as this.

The profiling that goes on in a cops mind that leads to these incidents is the same type of bred ignorance you have displayed and you have proven that you still haven't learned because, "Stereotypes are right more times than not." I have to ask myself why I'm wasting time on YOU.

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All you really said in all that is that you think the solution is for white people to change their attitudes with no reason for doing so other than it seems to be the right thing to do. That's not a real world solution. Sure, it sounds great in a sociology lecture or a philosophy paper but people aren't going to change their perceptions and attitudes without seeing some reason to do so. Telling someone to change their perspective and the other party will reciprocate sounds great in theory but you are asking for trust where neither side has done anything to earn it. Repealing drug laws that were implemented based on racial prejudice and releasing those non-violent offenders certainly addresses the prejudice in the justice system and is a direct acknowledgement of it. Reforming law enforcement with black officers serving predominantly black communities until trust can be built back up are all things that I've suggested for the majority to do. For what you said the opposite is also true. If the minority goes above and beyond to break the stereotypes then the majority would recognize that and perceive differently but that's still saying one party should effect change while the other sits back and waits to act based on the results of that change. No, both sides have to equally take steps to solve the problem simultaneously...

So you want a realistic solution, but you also want a solution based on repealing drug laws and drastically changing the nation's perception of drug crime? You want both sides to do things equally, but that means blacks have to go "above and beyond" to prove to whites that the stereotypes are unjustified? Those aren't solutions so much as they're contradictions. You're also discounting the possibility that, you know, white people don't have to be racist just because their parents were racist. That public attitude has changed as much as it has in just a few decades, including the shift in perception against police officers and the the focus on ending discrimination against blacks specifically, ought to be some evidence that progress can be made without giving blacks the message that things will change just as soon as they come together as a monolith and prove themselves to the people that discriminate against them.

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I don't care if you address it or not. Just don't think people forget your own behavior before you point fingers or try to act like an unbiased person on matters such as this.

The profiling that goes on in a cops mind that leads to these incidents is the same type of bred ignorance you have displayed and you have proven that you still haven't learned because, "Stereotypes are right more times than not." I have to ask myself why I'm wasting time on YOU.

^^bigot

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I don't care if you address it or not. Just don't think people forget your own behavior before you point fingers or try to act like an unbiased person on matters such as this.

The profiling that goes on in a cops mind that leads to these incidents is the same type of bred ignorance you have displayed and you have proven that you still haven't learned because, "Stereotypes are right more times than not." I have to ask myself why I'm wasting time on YOU.

Whatever, perhaps you should actually use the entire phrase which was "SOMETIMES stereotypes are right more times than not. That also means that sometimes they are entirely wrong." Thing is and it's not registering with you for whatever reason but when I see white people sitting on a porching drinking the day away, I think the SAME EXACT thing as I do when I see black people doing is so it that really bigotry at all? If you want to blast at me with something it should be that I don't understand the plight of poor people except I do because I lived in poor neighborhoods myself with only a single parent to raise me. The only advantage I MAY have had was having a parent who had a strong work ethic and gave a crap about her son.

Now I ask you, how in Odin's blue Hades can I possibly make certain that everyone has that advantage? That's right, I can't but what I can do is advocate for things that I know can be corrected to be corrected. If you'd rather waste your time painting a picture of me as some horrible racist person then go right ahead but it contributes nothing to the discussion. So do us all a favor and quit trying to play the role of a know it all who thinks he knows anything about me or simply quit badgering the snot out of me when I'm trying to have a real discussion....

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