Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Shotfather

White Cop Shoots Unarmed Black Guy In Back 8 Times, Plants Taser On Him. Just Another Day In America.

593 posts in this topic

It points to the fact that people hit what's closest to them and when the neighborhoods are still quite segregated as a whole, it's no surprise that you're more likely to be attacked by your own.

Then comes that per capita argument as if it proves that black people, by nature, are more violent as if none of the economic inequality plays a part in it. Congratulations, you're a tool for those charts and help to further the divide. Pay no attention to the people behind the curtain.

Andrews_31 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact the cop was white and the criminal was black had no bearing on this case except for those with an agenda.

Eh, can't agree with you there T. Why he chose to act the way he did is an unknown but to say definitively that race had no bearing isn't correct. Maybe it was/maybe it wasn't. The cop does have a history of excessive force involving black people so it's hard to believe that race wasn't a factor...

silentbob1272 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, can't agree with you there T. Why he chose to act the way he did is an unknown but to say definitively that race had no bearing isn't correct. Maybe it was/maybe it wasn't. The cop does have a history of excessive force involving black people so it's hard to believe that race wasn't a factor...

I don't know that having one complaint should really be called "having a history." Ive only heard the one guy say he was wrongfully tazed. Anybody can file a complaint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that one racial minority can be almost completely responsible for its higher-than-normal rate of violent crime and for police perception of them being likely criminals, when it's not the responsibility of another race when it happens to be that it is far more responsible for the root cause of violent crime in the nation.

meezy0236 and Bunchy Carter like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that one racial minority can be almost completely responsible for its higher-than-normal rate of violent crime and for police perception of them being likely criminals, when it's not the responsibility of another race when it happens to be that it is far more responsible for the root cause of violent crime in the nation.

Racism?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question, why can't blacks be individuals instead of being lumped in with the criminals? These cops (now) aren't seeing criminals when they encounter black males, they're seeing demons and monsters! These cops, and unfortunately society, have been CONDITIONED to see the absolute worst in black people, to the point that your average black person minding his own business can get gunned down by these rogue azz cops and vigilantees. This BS has to stop! And anyone who is saying that this guy (Scott) caused his own death by running away from this cop is full of sh!t (edit: not aimed at you Kicker)!!! Get real!!

I haven't read this entire thread, so I'm seriously asking: Has anyone said this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact the cop was white and the criminal was black had no bearing on this case except for those with an agenda.

You can't know that for sure at this point anymore than someone claiming the opposite to be the case. This is pretty clearly a case of murder, and that is coming from someone who always gives the police the benefit of the doubt. Why he did it, none of us know at this point: racism, a bad day, outright hubris, all are possibilities, but none are justified. They had this guy's car, so they knew who he was (or would know), to have shot a fellow human being over a busted tail light is down right evil. This guy will and should pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it's not like blacks are shot more than whites or anything. Nevermind that the guy isn't a violent criminal but that didn't stop the officer from assuming that he would be simply because he was black. Backwoods mindset.

I don't know you well enough for an opinion of if facts matter to you, but if they do, Yeah, it's actually not like blacks are shot more than whites or anything.

I linked this realclearpolitics article earlier in this thread

In 2012, according to the CDC, 140 blacks were killed by police. That same year 386 whites were killed by police. Over the 13-year period from 1999 to 2011, the CDC reports that 2,151 whites were killed by cops -- and 1,130 blacks were killed by cops.

Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/12/18/racial_cop_stories_that_didnt_make_the_cut_125004.html#ixzz3WuyD797u

Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"In 2012, 123 African-Americans were shot dead by police. ... Same year, 326 whites were killed by police."
Bill O'Reilly on Monday, December 1st, 2014 in a segment on "The O'Reilly Factor"

Bill O'Reilly cites faulty data for claim about shooting deaths of blacks, whites by police - PolitiFact.com

By Katie Sanders on Thursday, December 4th, 2014 at 12:02 p.m.

Bill O'Reilly tried to make a point about the rarity of police killings during his Dec. 1, 2014, show.

Bill O’Reilly made headlines this week by offering his take on a silent Ferguson protest by a few members of the NFL’s St. Louis Rams, saying the decision of the players "connotes the fact that they believe, I guess, that white police officers shoot black youths all the time."

That’s out of bounds of a fact-check.

But O’Reilly did present some statistics in the same argument that several readers asked us to examine.

"Let's take a good look at this plague of white cops acting violently against blacks, as (professor and liberal columnist Michael Eric) Dyson puts it," O’Reilly said on his Dec. 1, 2014, Fox News program. "In the past 50 years, the rate of black Americans killed by police has dropped 70 percent. In 2012, 123 African-Americans were shot dead by police. There are currently more than 43 million blacks living in the U.S.A. Same year, 326 whites were killed by police bullets. Those are the latest stats available."

Later in the show, O’Reilly said of these numbers, "That's not an epidemic. It's not crazy. It's not a hunting-down of black youth."

This is not the first time we have evaluated pundits’ half-truths comparing black and white deaths from police killings. Like the other cases, O’Reilly is citing available government statistics, but these numbers are shaky and don’t paint a complete picture.

Lack of national data

O’Reilly’s team used the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s fatal injuryreports database. A search in the system for fatal "legal interventions" -- deaths caused in the course of law enforcement trying to make an arrest or quell a situation -- confirms, on the surface, the numbers O’Reilly mentioned for whites and African-Americans.

How does the CDC get the number? Primarily from causes of death listed in death certificates from coroners, medical examiners and physicians and demographic information provided by funeral directors. Figures are further supplemented by a violent death reporting system that includes data from 17 states. (Legal interventions include state executions.)

But experts told us the data is likely incomplete because coroners and physicians are under no obligation to detail police involvement in the deaths that they encounter.

"It is not known or certain that every death certificate indicates that the death was caused by law enforcement officer in every jurisdiction," said Samuel Walker, retired professor of criminal justice at the University of Nebraska-Omaha.

Another database, this one maintained by the FBI, attempts to get at the same figure. But it’s no more solid. The FBI reports rely on self-reported data from a small chunk of the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies.

The lack of a national clearinghouse for fatal police killings "is a national embarrassment," said Geoffrey Alpert, a University of South Carolina criminology professor who specializes in high-risk police activities.

"I’m sure one of (O’Reilly’s) researchers pulled a number from that database, but it’s just a convenient fact, as someone used to say," he said.

More problems with O’Reilly’s numbers

Beyond the lack of clear national data for these deaths, experts found more problems with O’Reilly’s citation of CDC numbers.

O’Reilly’s reference of the number of whites killed in legal interventions does not strictly account for non-Hispanic whites. People who identify as Hispanic are also counted in the total of 326 deaths.

Running the search again for whites but excluding Hispanics leaves 227 deaths from legal interventions -- substantially fewer deaths due to the absence of 97 white Hispanics previously in the mix (in the black category, two were identified as black Hispanic).

"So if you are interested in people of color, what they list in the white data is too high," Walker said of O’Reilly’s figures.

Additionally, the per capita rate of black deaths per 100,000 residents is .28, which is twice as high as the rate for white deaths of .13, Walker points out.

Our ruling

O’Reilly said, 123 African-Americans and 326 white people were shot dead by police in 2012.

He referenced recent federal numbers but failed to mention their well-documentedflaws. We have not found any experts who will vouch for numbers that purport to represent annual fatal shootings by police, as there are gaping holes within each dataset.

Additionally, the number of white people fatally shot by police in 2012 is substantially off if you account for white Hispanics -- a group O’Reilly did not seem to have in mind during his rant about race relations between blacks and whites.

O’Reilly’s statement contains an element of truth, but it’s not the full picture he makes it out to be. We rate the claim Mostly False.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that rebuttal, but it is so full of could be's, may be, not clears, etc that it is ridiculous to even consider it a rebuttal, take this part as an example:

But experts told us the data is likely incomplete because coroners and physicians are under no obligation to detail police involvement in the deaths that they encounter.

"It is not known or certain that every death certificate indicates that the death was caused by law enforcement officer in every jurisdiction," said Samuel Walker, retired professor of criminal justice at the University of Nebraska-Omaha.

So because he doesn't know either way, he declares the data faulty. C'mon, would anyone accept that premise as a coherent rebuttal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that rebuttal, but it is so full of could be's, may be, not clears, etc that it is ridiculous to even consider it a rebuttal, take this part as an example:

But experts told us the data is likely incomplete because coroners and physicians are under no obligation to detail police involvement in the deaths that they encounter.

"It is not known or certain that every death certificate indicates that the death was caused by law enforcement officer in every jurisdiction," said Samuel Walker, retired professor of criminal justice at the University of Nebraska-Omaha.

So because he doesn't know either way, he declares the data faulty. C'mon, would anyone accept that premise as a coherent rebuttal?

Combined with the study you're quoting it's a pretty compelling point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RealClearPolitics is a right-wing outfit and Bill O'Reilly is Bill O'Reilly, but everybody in the lamestream media agrees that government statistics are inaccurate.

How many police shootings a year? No one knows

How many Americans die in police encounters? Fatal Encounters website seeks answer

Journalist frustrated by lack of reliable government statistics turns to the public for data on police deaths.

The FBI is trying to get better data on police killings. Here's what we know now.

The victims: overwhelmingly male, heavily young, disproportionately black

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, can't agree with you there T. Why he chose to act the way he did is an unknown but to say definitively that race had no bearing isn't correct. Maybe it was/maybe it wasn't. The cop does have a history of excessive force involving black people so it's hard to believe that race wasn't a factor...

I did not know he had a history of racism my bad, well that's fair to say that it did then. Thanks cap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't know that for sure at this point anymore than someone claiming the opposite to be the case. This is pretty clearly a case of murder, and that is coming from someone who always gives the police the benefit of the doubt. Why he did it, none of us know at this point: racism, a bad day, outright hubris, all are possibilities, but none are justified. They had this guy's car, so they knew who he was (or would know), to have shot a fellow human being over a busted tail light is down right evil. This guy will and should pay for it.

Yeah I agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know that having one complaint should really be called "having a history." Ive only heard the one guy say he was wrongfully tazed. Anybody can file a complaint.

There was another complaint: "In another complaint in January, Slager was cited for failing to file a report after an African-American woman called police because her children were being harassed."

So there are two incidences involving blacks that don't reflect on him favorably. Again, doesn't mean race was 100% a factor but makes me believe it more than likely was in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that one racial minority can be almost completely responsible for its higher-than-normal rate of violent crime and for police perception of them being likely criminals, when it's not the responsibility of another race when it happens to be that it is far more responsible for the root cause of violent crime in the nation.

I don't think it's a matter of "being responsible" but more that only black people are going to change the negative aspects that create stereotypes. Simply put, I can't see the type of people we are talking about that create stereotypes listening to white people telling them how they should conduct themselves. It will take the leaders of black communities and also greatly reducing the allure of gangs, in my opinion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's a matter of "being responsible" but more that only black people are going to change the negative aspects that create stereotypes. Simply put, I can't see the type of people we are talking about that create stereotypes listening to white people telling them how they should conduct themselves. It will take the leaders of black communities and also greatly reducing the allure of gangs, in my opinion...

So when are white people going to change the negative aspects that we (just to be clear, "we") control this society and perpetuate all of the ills that minorities suffer for? How could I, as an individual, possibly go about addressing white oppression as it exists in the worst stereotypes of my race?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question, why can't blacks be individuals instead of being lumped in with the criminals? These cops (now) aren't seeing criminals when they encounter black males, they're seeing demons and monsters! These cops, and unfortunately society, have been CONDITIONED to see the absolute worst in black people, to the point that your average black person minding his own business can get gunned down by these rogue azz cops and vigilantees. This BS has to stop! And anyone who is saying that this guy (Scott) caused his own death by running away from this cop is full of sh!t (edit: not aimed at you Kicker)!!! Get real!!

Excuse my ignorance here but how has society been conditioned to see the worst in black people?

As a black man I'm responsible for myself and myself only. What other black men do isn't my concern cause i can't control that. Now some people will lump me with the rest of them. I'm a single never married father of one. People have their stereotypes and I'm sure the ignorant ones have one for me. It's whatever. Control your actions cause you can't control how others perceive you.

I'm intrigued. If you have no concern then how does the cycle ever stop? I can't see a young black male who may be attracted to the gang lifestyle and creating the stereotypes would ever listen to anything someone other than black people that they can relate to would tell them. I know they wouldn't care what I have to say as to how to live their lives and carry themselves. First question they'd ask is "what the *(*W do you know about being black?" And to that I'd have absolutely no answer so my advice/opinion would be worthless to them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse my ignorance here but how has society been conditioned to see the worst in black people

Black person taking supplies during a disaster = looting

White person taking supplies during a disaster = surviving.

Drug sentences of blacks vs drug sentences/rehab of whites

Things like that...

Bunchy Carter likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So when are white people going to change the negative aspects that we (just to be clear, "we") control this society and perpetuate all of the ills that minorities suffer for? How could I, as an individual, possibly go about addressing white oppression as it exists in the worst stereotypes of my race?

Not sure I understand what you are asking here. What are the worst stereotypes of your race as you see them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites