Jump to content

Having Your Cake And Eating It, Too


Recommended Posts

The majority of the fan-base fits within a few categories:

1.) Supportive no matter what moves are made. Usually optimistic. Finds the silver linings. Positive and looks to the best case outcome.

2.) Unsupportive no matter what move is made. Usually pessimistic. Looks at the downside to every player. Negative and expects the worst.

3.) The Realist. Knows that not every move is going to work. Tries to understand the moves in the larger scheme.

The first type often looks at the second type as not being fans, which is not true. The second type looks at the first type as steeple, which in some instances can be true, but I think both types really want the best for their team, just express it differently.

Which type are you? I prefer to be optimistic, because focusing on the negatives isn't going to make me any happier, so I try to find silver linings. Yet, over the years I have moved closer to the third type.

Now, this is my qualm with the "type 2" folks, and my attempt to persuade you to be a little less negative during the offseason. I think criticism is perfectly fine and good, but the question is whether or not you are being "fair and balanced." I really haven't seen a lot of that. I will give a shootout to WOR here, (if you are reading this I sense you are a type 3 guy), because I've seen the best of both worlds from him.

Now, let's be REAL. Any move can be spun in any direction. If you're type 1, you will spin the positive. If you are type 2, the negative. If your issue with the players being signed is due to injury history, (let's take Justin Durant here for example, how much would you have paid for a durable part time guy to become a full time guy? How would you address the other needs on this team when you've paid most of the cap toward one player? If the Falcons overpaid for a guy and left multiple holes at other positions, would you have been negative about how much the Falcons paid player X? Now how about the durable guy (let's take Brooks Reed for example). Are you complaining about the skill set or lack of certain skills when you are paying him half or less than half of what the other guys make? If he is filling a role on the team, how can you get mad?

YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO!

The Falcons have a plan. One that encompasses the draft and the rest of free agency. We don't see the big picture yet and won't until it's completed. The bigger picture is really three years out, but as far as one offseason, it's tough to be overly critical of a couple of moves here or there because of injury history or lack of certain skillets with players. Will all these moves work? History suggests that most likely not, but if I'm a gambler, I'm taking much less of a risk by not putting all of my chips in on one roll of the dice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RP

The majority of the fan-base fits within a few categories:

1.) Supportive no matter what moves are made. Usually optimistic. Finds the silver linings. Positive and looks to the best case outcome.

2.) Unsupportive no matter what move is made. Usually pessimistic. Looks at the downside to every player. Negative and expects the worst.

3.) The Realist. Knows that not every move is going to work. Tries to understand the moves in the larger scheme.

The first type often looks at the second type as not being fans, which is not true. The second type looks at the first type as steeple, which in some instances can be true, but I think both types really want the best for their team, just express it differently. Which type are you?

I prefer to be optimistic, because focusing on the negatives isn't going to make me any happier, so I try to find silver linings. Yet, over the years I have moved closer to the third type.

Now, this is my qualm with the "type 2" folks, and my attempt to persuade you to be a little less negative during the off season. I think criticism is perfectly fine and good, but the question is whether or not you are being "fair and balanced." I really haven't seen a lot of that.

I will give a shootout to WOR here, (if you are reading this I sense you are a type 3 guy), because I've seen the best of both worlds from him. Now, let's be REAL. Any move can be spun in any direction. If you're type 1, you will spin the positive. If you are type 2, the negative. If your issue with the players being signed is due to injury history,

Let's take Justin Durant here for example, how much would you have paid for a durable part time guy to become a full time guy? How would you address the other needs on this team when you've paid most of the cap toward one player? If the Falcons overpaid for a guy and left multiple holes at other positions, would you have been negative about how much the Falcons paid player X?

Now how about the durable guy (let's take Brooks Reed for example). Are you complaining about the skill set or lack of certain skills when you are paying him half or less than half of what the other guys make? If he is filling a role on the team, how can you get mad? YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO!

The Falcons have a plan. One that encompasses the draft and the rest of free agency.We don't see the big picture yet and won't until it's completed. The bigger picture is really three years out, but as far as one offseason, it's tough to be overly critical of a couple of moves here or there because of injury history or lack of certain skillets with players. Will all these moves work? History suggests that most likely not, but if I'm a gambler, I'm taking much less of a risk by not putting all of my chips in on one roll of the dice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just dont think were going to win a Super Bowl this year. So I temper my expectations to fit around a few year retooling. Are there any teams that came up with a pass rush in one year? The Lions took a few years, Seattle took 3, Buffalo took a few years. I just know its not realistic to go from 20 sacks to 45 in one year.

I dont want to keep comparing us to only the Seahawks, but I think we will be very similar. Pete Carrols first year was like last year for us. Just slowly adding pieces and seeing what youve got. This year for us will be like the year we played them in the playoffs. Just starting to put everything together, but still need to improve. I think the year after next we could be really dangerous again.

We should have our Oline fixed after this year.

Our Dline should be fixed after next year.

Weve added 2 solid LBs, and should add at least 2 more in the next 2 drafts.

Where else are we truly weak? TE? RB? CB? All things that can be easily addressed this year and next.

Our fans just need to be patient. Were building depth and adding quality starters. The Pro Bowl guys will be here soon enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem is this. If I say anything positive, then it will be misconstrued that I love the pick...even though I have said nothing negative about Reed (I actually like him), or even Persons or Smith...I am irritated as all get out that we are addressing the edge with Clayborn most likely. I am looking at the list though and not seeing a whole lot we can do. Hopefully we get Morgan, but I don't expect a lot out of him. I totally expect to get Gregory because I think these guys shot up in the draft due to their Combines.

I would like to see Schofield, Sheard if still available, and maybe a DB. We are likely to stop looking at RB in the FA at this point and TE is VERY thin. Maybe WR and another OL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a solid #3. The difficult part this year is there are so many unknowns. To be supportive of the plan and grand scheme, you have to take an optimistic view that the scheme (an unproven one with a new HC) will actually work. Throw in guys who have never worked within this scheme and collect guys who while not bad players are far from proven superstars and you have some grounds for pessimism. No position is really wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RP

The majority of the fan-base fits within a few categories:

1.) Supportive no matter what moves are made. Usually optimistic. Finds the silver linings. Positive and looks to the best case outcome.

2.) Unsupportive no matter what move is made. Usually pessimistic. Looks at the downside to every player. Negative and expects the worst.

3.) The Realist. Knows that not every move is going to work. Tries to understand the moves in the larger scheme.

The first type often looks at the second type as not being fans, which is not true. The second type looks at the first type as steeple, which in some instances can be true, but I think both types really want the best for their team, just express it differently. Which type are you?

I prefer to be optimistic, because focusing on the negatives isn't going to make me any happier, so I try to find silver linings. Yet, over the years I have moved closer to the third type.

Now, this is my qualm with the "type 2" folks, and my attempt to persuade you to be a little less negative during the off season. I think criticism is perfectly fine and good, but the question is whether or not you are being "fair and balanced." I really haven't seen a lot of that.

I will give a shootout to WOR here, (if you are reading this I sense you are a type 3 guy), because I've seen the best of both worlds from him. Now, let's be REAL. Any move can be spun in any direction. If you're type 1, you will spin the positive. If you are type 2, the negative. If your issue with the players being signed is due to injury history,

Let's take Justin Durant here for example, how much would you have paid for a durable part time guy to become a full time guy? How would you address the other needs on this team when you've paid most of the cap toward one player? If the Falcons overpaid for a guy and left multiple holes at other positions, would you have been negative about how much the Falcons paid player X?

Now how about the durable guy (let's take Brooks Reed for example). Are you complaining about the skill set or lack of certain skills when you are paying him half or less than half of what the other guys make? If he is filling a role on the team, how can you get mad? YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO!

The Falcons have a plan. One that encompasses the draft and the rest of free agency.We don't see the big picture yet and won't until it's completed. The bigger picture is really three years out, but as far as one offseason, it's tough to be overly critical of a couple of moves here or there because of injury history or lack of certain skillets with players. Will all these moves work? History suggests that most likely not, but if I'm a gambler, I'm taking much less of a risk by not putting all of my chips in on one roll of the dice.

praise you
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just dont think were going to win a Super Bowl this year. So I temper my expectations to fit around a few year retooling. Are there any teams that came up with a pass rush in one year? The Lions took a few years, Seattle took 3, Buffalo took a few years. I just know its not realistic to go from 20 sacks to 45 in one year.

I dont want to keep comparing us to only the Seahawks, but I think we will be very similar. Pete Carrols first year was like last year for us. Just slowly adding pieces and seeing what youve got. This year for us will be like the year we played them in the playoffs. Just starting to put everything together, but still need to improve. I think the year after next we could be really dangerous again.

We should have our Oline fixed after this year.

Our Dline should be fixed after next year.

Weve added 2 solid LBs, and should add at least 2 more in the next 2 drafts.

Where else are we truly weak? TE? RB? CB? All things that can be easily addressed this year and next.

Our fans just need to be patient. Were building depth and adding quality starters. The Pro Bowl guys will be here soon enough.

This. Part of the reason this team is where it is, is because of one year fix jobs. This is a great draft at RB and WR. Hope we get one of each. It's not good for TE. Hope we don't reach bc of need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I can sometimes be a 1 and sometimes a 3....never a 2 and I can't stand that kind of fan. I think next year can be a good season but probably not a Superbowl one. I still look at how screwed up and unbalanced Koetter had our offense. If Shanny adds balance to the offense with a decent running game then even a marginal improvement in the defense could net us a four to five game improvement over last year. 10-6 to 11-5 is entirely possible to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a two-year plan.

Part of fan anguish I think is because Matt Ryan is in his prime years, and we've been wasting that past two seasons with some knucklehead management moves (not addressing pass rush and TE position).

I like this year's plan much better

Edited by Vandy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vandy, I think with a solid running game and strategy (back to grinding ball control and play-action) and an improved defense, as well as a weak division, this team could be back in the playoffs next year. Why? Because of the QB. Ryan has several good seasons left. I like the way we have started building. Just got to stick to it and not go for the "one player to put us over the top" method.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem is this. If I say anything positive, then it will be misconstrued that I love the pick...even though I have said nothing negative about Reed (I actually like him), or even Persons or Smith...I am irritated as all get out that we are addressing the edge with Clayborn most likely. I am looking at the list though and not seeing a whole lot we can do. Hopefully we get Morgan, but I don't expect a lot out of him. I totally expect to get Gregory because I think these guys shot up in the draft due to their Combines.

I would like to see Schofield, Sheard if still available, and maybe a DB. We are likely to stop looking at RB in the FA at this point and TE is VERY thin. Maybe WR and another OL.

One reason team's let the Clayborn and Orakpo loose is because of their injury history. Falcons's don't need an elite pass rusher in FA, they need to get that fixed with #8 pick in draft. What they need is an upgrade over the crap heap we've thrown out there the past two seasons. My vote is with you on Morgan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One reason team's let the Clayborn and Orakpo loose is because of their injury history. Falcons's don't need an elite pass rusher in FA, they need to get that fixed with #8 pick in draft. What they need is an upgrade over the crap heap we've thrown out there the past two seasons. My vote is with you on Morgan.

That's what I'm saying. I was a bit nerved when we went and got two LB's before we had a pass rusher...even though I have liked Reed since day one. Thing is, I also liked Biermann and still do not dislike him that much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vandy, I think with a solid running game and strategy (back to grinding ball control and play-action) and an improved defense, as well as a weak division, this team could be back in the playoffs next year. Why? Because of the QB. Ryan has several good seasons left. I like the way we have started building. Just got to stick to it and not go for the "one player to put us over the top" method.

I agree, Jerry, but I would add we desperately a TE and OG with that change of personnel. Was hoping for Jermaine Gresham at TE, but most likely, we'll address it in draft, as we will with OG/RB.That's why I believe it's a two-year plan realistically, as I think draft will go mainly defense early. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what I'm saying. I was a bit nerved when we went and got two LB's before we had a pass rusher...even though I have liked Reed since day one. Thing is, I also liked Biermann and still do not dislike him that much.

I'm with ya Knight, I wanted us to draft Reed when he first got out of college, Julio trade blew that up for me.. I think he had 6 sacks his rookie season (too lazy to look up).

Biermann has been a productive player, I think fans get on his case because of his ill-advised reality show stunt. Certainly he's been better than fan fav Mass during his time here

Edited by Vandy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Team #3. I like to step back and try and envision the grand scope of things. Making any move requires planning and the accounting of variables that effect that planning. And as fans, we are privy to a miniscule amount ofbthose variables. Salary cap mechanics is only part of the issues. How contracts are written, off field issues, inter team politics and networking, what the cap ramifications are for the coming years, scouting out to three years, knowing where and when your players are at the most opportune times to pay or replace and how the potential FA class is in any year, how will the draft intersect with FA and our current roster. The list can go on.

TL;DR Its not just salary cap. The behind the scenes is far more complicated than we know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with ya Knight, I wanted us to draft Reed when he first got out of college, Julio trade blew that up for me.. I think he had 6 sacks his rookie season (too lazy to look up).

Biermann has been a productive player, I think fans get on his case because of his ill-advised reality show stunt. Certainly he's been better than fan fav Mass during his time here

It was 6 and about three every year after. He's not going to blow up the spot for you, but with talent around him, he's a nice addition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need to bring Abe back - let him play sparingly and if we get to the post season he can play more, dont want to kill the guy, but talent wise, he has kept his speed and bend far longer than anyone else i can remember that plays this position he is a total anomoly - and should be super cheap, if he wants, to just get more guys that can rush the passer - If we leave FA with 3 of these 4-7 sack a year guys, it will be big improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I support the Falcons. I'm not always sure of every move they make any more than I can pretend to have access to all the information they have when setting the "big picture".

I do understand that players are human beings just as coaches, executives, trainers and fans are. Human beings are not infallible.

1. There are health issues always looming because they are human beings - and that's just a fact of life. Then top that off with the physical nature of their training, practice and playing and that health issue looms larger.

2. There are learning curves for such a complex game. New players learning a new system with new play calls. Old players learning a new system with new play calls. Defenses learning to trust each other. Blocking schemes, defenses, routes, etc., etc., etc. There's a lot to remember - and it takes time. And they are human beings.

3. There is the level of player they are facing in the game. Sometimes, the opponent is just a little better. Sometimes it's a play - sometimes it's a game. Just a fact of life.

4. Coaches are human too. They over or under estimate players, plays and opponents at times. Even the most brilliant playcaller can make a mistake - and occasionally that mistake has a tragic outcome for not only that particular play or game - but for a player.

5. Fans are human - so we are going to want the best player available for any given position and because our only acceptable outcome is the ultimate success of the team every year - we are going to face the most frustration, the highest highs and the lowest lows during any given year - and because we are human - we will react to each of those.

So, while I can't know what the outcome of the tenure of a particular FA pickup, draft pick or trade pickup will end up being, I always hope for the best while understanding that the human factor is ever present and omnipotent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a proud founding member of Group 2, which encompasses the best of Type 1 and Type 3 fans. We are always going to be optimistic, because that's what being a fan is all about. If you're not optimistic and looking forward to next season, next game, next HC change etc., then you're basically nothing more than a casual observer who might someday become a fan. Of course, Group 2 fans are also smarter, handsomer, more sophisticated and generally way more cool than regular Type 1, 2 and 3 fans, but that's fodder for another post.

Group 2 is extremely optimistic about the hiring of Dan Quinn. His passion, dedication to his craft, coaching acumen, talent evaluation skills and leadership make him one of the best if not the best HC prospect to be had in the NFL this year or even the past several years. But optimism about Quinn's potential is somewhat dampened by the specter of TD remaining as the team's GM.

Hopefully, Quinn will be telling TD who to go after, and he'll be little more than an order-filler. The less TD has to do with the actual selection process and the more he leaves talent evaluation to Pioli, Quinn and the scouting department, the better I feel about our chances of making the significant upgrades across the roster necessary to become competitive again.

Here's hoping this season will produce a brand new, more explosive, aggressive, exciting and competitive brand of football than what we've seen in years, regardless of the won-loss record.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...