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Florio: Falcons Going After Orakpo


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If we're truly objective and thinking outside the box, I'm signing Houston to a tender, forcing KC to nutt up and either sign him or deal for this years picks vs the two firsts. Or just give this years first and next years with a big smile on my face. And signing schoffied for depth and orakpo..no more mincing around with average guys and prospects we hope pan out. I'd also draft a Nate orchid or Preston smith type that we could develop. . With the stud Houston and a hopefully healthy orakpo were gtg for a while

The non-exclusive Franchise Tag used on Justin Houston is basically just a way to let the NFL market make your team's (KC Chiefs in this instance) long-term deal with your player FOR YOU - because you(KC) were unsuccessful in doing so......In other words, it is a waste of time as any deal will likely get matched.

1) any contract deal that is reasonable between Falcons/JH, will simply be matched by KC. To get KC not to match, Falcons would have to dramatically overpay - probably $17mm/yr for 6 years might get KC not too match (QB money).

2) Falcons are in transition now and have a top 10 pick. For all we know, Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler or Randy Gregory will be available at #8 and they might be the next JH - only at a reasonable salary for 5 years that won't choke out other things the Falcons want to get done defensively.

3) there would be a second 1st round pick as well - Matty Ice goes down or Julio and next thing you know that becomes a top 10 pick. Without our QB, our team would sink towards the bottom with a back-up QB.

Too expensive, too much risk, too many eggs in one basket, too much of a waste of time when focusing on building a team right now - no thanks to trying to go after Justin Houston (and I LOVE him).

Also, you realize we sign Justin Houston to an offer sheet, then Chiefs have several days to match - meanwhile all the other NFL FA passrushers are flying off the shelf going to other teams. You take the JH strategy, you could end up with nobody.

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The non-exclusive Franchise Tag used on Justin Houston is basically just a way to let the NFL market make your team's long-term deal with your player - because you were unsuccessful in doing so......In other words, it is a waste of time.

1) any contract deal that is reasonable between Falcons/JH, will simply be matched by KC. To get KC not to match, Falcons would have to dramatically overpay.

2) Falcons are in transition now and have a top 10 pick. For all we know, Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler or Randy Gregory will be available at #8 and they might be the next JH - only at a reasonable salary for 5 years that won't choke out other things the Falcons want to get done defensively.

3) there would be a second 1st round pick as well - Matty Ice goes down or Julio and next thing you know that becomes a top 10 pick. Without our QB, our team would sink towards the bottom with a back-up QB.

Too expensive, too much risk, too many eggs in one basket, too much of a waste of time when focusing on building a team right now - no thanks to trying to go after Justin Houston (and I LOVE him).

Also, you realize we sign Justin Houston to an offer sheet, then Chiefs have several days to match - meanwhile all the other NFL FA passrushers are flying off the shelf going to other teams. You take the JH strategy, you could end up with nobody.

Kinda sorta on eggs in same basket. You do as MD suggests and lock up orakpo or another mid tier guy first. KC has a strapped cap issue...if you have Orakpo and say Schoffield locked up...it's all good if they match...no loss you keep your pick and go rookie...but rookie is what it is..prolly struggles initially...if they don't match, you call it good and keep your young stud. I know the cost seems high but in reality this years first is for Houston --a much better player than any we can get at 8. And the 2016 first is as though we moved up to say the top 3 spots.

Expensive? Yeah, but let's be honest you get what you pay for in pass rushers as a whole. And you can with smart drafting get good LBs, good role players in rounds 2 and beyond..in this scenario it's less than julio trade as you get the player you want but for the two firsts (one you used on Houston essentially) and just another first...not the extra picks we gave up...

I'm not a cap guy, but for some reason I bet we could make it work

But all that said, it really depends does quinn see this team as a total rebuild? Or an injection in playmaking ability needed

Plus this is a deep pass rusher class. Very good chance to get a gem in rds 2-4...Nate orchid comes to mind...Preston smith is another...

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Let's see. The Jaguars are also hot after Orakpo. With 65 million plus to spend - they can pay the man.

Those of you who are thinking he's coming in on the cheap - SMH!

That being said - if they bring him in - I'll root like crazy for him to be productive and on the field on game day. I'm really frustrated watching all these "great" players getting paid to be high priced cheerleaders on the sidelines.

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Kinda sorta on eggs in same basket. You do as MD suggests and lock up orakpo or another mid tier guy first. KC has a strapped cap issue...if you have Orakpo and say Schoffield locked up...it's all good if they match...no loss you keep your pick and go rookie...but rookie is what it is..prolly struggles initially...if they don't match, you call it good and keep your young stud. I know the cost seems high but in reality this years first is for Houston --a much better player than any we can get at 8. And the 2016 first is as though we moved up to say the top 3 spots.

Expensive? Yeah, but let's be honest you get what you pay for in pass rushers as a whole. And you can with smart drafting get good LBs, good role players in rounds 2 and beyond..in this scenario it's less than julio trade as you get the player you want but for the two firsts (one you used on Houston essentially) and just another first...not the extra picks we gave up...

I'm not a cap guy, but for some reason I bet we could make it work

But all that said, it really depends does quinn see this team as a total rebuild? Or an injection in playmaking ability needed

Plus this is a deep pass rusher class. Very good chance to get a gem in rds 2-4...Nate orchid comes to mind...Preston smith is another...

I don't think success will be sustainable for Falcons if we have Matt at $22mm/yr, Julio at $16mm/yr and Justin Houston at $16mm/yr. History in the NFL has shown us that you cannot buy a SuperBowl title. Maybe somebody has a good example but in 49 years of SuperBowl winners I cannot think of one. Deion hopped from Falcons to Niners to Cowboys and won two rings but those two teams were already 90% complete when he went there and were already great teams. You don't "Free Agent Your Way" to a SuperBowl - you build thru the draft and supplement in free agency.

I just don't buy that giving up two first rounders and overpaying JH by 20% to get KC not to match is the way to go. What also happens in those situations is - you need those superstars to play all 16 games - think about it, five games into the season and Falcons Justin Houston gets hurt - that is two 1st round draft picks and 12% of your salary cap - on the bench.

Can't do it.

Shouldn't do it.

Won't do it.

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Let's see. The Jaguars are also hot after Orakpo. With 65 million plus to spend - they can pay the man.

Those of you who are thinking he's coming in on the cheap - SMH!

That being said - if they bring him in - I'll root like crazy for him to be productive and on the field on game day. I'm really frustrated watching all these "great" players getting paid to be high priced cheerleaders on the sidelines.

I agree Tandy - just another reason I don't want him.

Of all players in free agency, signing Orakpo screams for it to be a reasonable deal - it won't be.

Personally, I would not sign Orakpo to a 4yr, $24mm deal with $12mm guaranteed - but that is a reasonable deal.

With all these teams with huge amounts of cash under the salary cap, it is going to be a players market and teams are going to overpay relative to intrinsic value.

To get Orakpo, it might be a 5yr, $38mm deal with $16mm guaranteed - he is nowhere near worth that.

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Guest Gritz

I'm more on the Brandon Graham-Jason Worilds train.

Not nearly as questionable injury histories and both are the type of players I believe Quinn-Smith could take to even higher levels of performance.

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I don't think success will be sustainable for Falcons if we have Matt at $22mm/yr, Julio at $16mm/yr and Justin Houston at $16mm/yr. History in the NFL has shown us that you cannot buy a SuperBowl title. Maybe somebody has a good example but in 49 years of SuperBowl winners I cannot think of one. Deion hopped from Falcons to Niners to Cowboys and won two rings but those two teams were already 90% complete when he went there and were already great teams. You don't "Free Agent Your Way" to a SuperBowl - you build thru the draft and supplement in free agency.

I just don't buy that giving up two first rounders and overpaying JH by 20% to get KC not to match is the way to go. What also happens in those situations is - you need those superstars to play all 16 games - think about it, five games into the season and Falcons Justin Houston gets hurt - that is two 1st round draft picks and 12% of your salary cap - on the bench.

Can't do it.

Shouldn't do it.

Won't do it.

Lol good argument..I disagree slightly as young pass rushers in prime are centerpieces ...Green Bay bought a guy named Reggie white and won a Super bowl..but again I get what you're saying.

In my mind if you draft well, such a risk can work out wonderfully.

Heck cut sack master baker and between his and the past salary of Blalock you got houstons salary! Reduce roddy's salary in restructure, cut the aging and ineffective moore who's getting 5.5 m I think on the cap...lots of ways to work the dollars.

As far as drafting to success...how much **** longer are we gonna build through the draft?

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Lol good argument..I disagree slightly as young pass rushers in prime are centerpieces ...Green Bay bought a guy named Reggie white and won a Super bowl..but again I get what you're saying.

In my mind if you draft well, such a risk can work out wonderfully.

Heck cut sack master baker and between his and the past salary of Blalock you got houstons salary! Reduce roddy's salary in restructure, cut the aging and ineffective moore who's getting 5.5 m I think on the cap...lots of ways to work the dollars.

As far as drafting to success...how much **** longer are we gonna build through the draft?

I grant you Reggie White is a good argument - but that is in a 49year history - he is the exception to the rule and arguably the best defensive end/tackle to ever live.

As far as cutting fat and coming up w/ the money - not really a great argument my friend. Blalock deserved to be cut because he was overpaid and declining. Roddy was overpaid in a "legacy" move to keep him to retire a Falcon - that was a mistake but think we will live w/ it as this year or next will likely be Roddy's last - we don't need to be restructing Roddy White and extending his deal. When we cut fat off the team, we need to replace them with multiple good players - Falcons roster sucks azz overall and we need lots and lots of upgrades across the board.

To rebuild this roster, it is not going to happen in a year - it can happen in two years I believe. We need two productive passrushers, a starting caliber Tight End, a tandem back to pair with Freeman, we need a starting left guard, we need an upgrade at right tackle, we need at least two upgraded starting linebackers, we need at least 1 starting defensive tackle, we need a starting slot receiver, we need a 3rd cornerback, we might need an upgrade at free saftey and we need a future outside #2 starting receiver to replace Roddy. We need LOTS and LOTS of upgrades and starters. I dont' think giving up two 1st round draft picks and paying Justin Houston $16mm/yr is the way to go. If we could pay JH the money w/o the draft picks, I would probably do it - but not both - no way, no how - too many holes!

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I grant you Reggie White is a good argument - but that is in a 49year history - he is the exception to the rule and arguably the best defensive end/tackle to ever live.

As far as cutting fat and coming up w/ the money - not really a great argument my friend. Blalock deserved to be cut because he was overpaid and declining. Roddy was overpaid in a "legacy" move to keep him to retire a Falcon - that was a mistake but think we will live w/ it as this year or next will likely be Roddy's last - we don't need to be restructing Roddy White and extending his deal. When we cut fat off the team, we need to replace them with multiple good players - Falcons roster sucks azz overall and we need lots and lots of upgrades across the board.

To rebuild this roster, it is not going to happen in a year - it can happen in two years I believe. We need two productive passrushers, a starting caliber Tight End, a tandem back to pair with Freeman, we need a starting left guard, we need an upgrade at right tackle, we need at least two upgraded starting linebackers, we need at least 1 starting defensive tackle, we need a starting slot receiver, we need a 3rd cornerback, we might need an upgrade at free saftey and we need a future outside #2 starting receiver to replace Roddy. We need LOTS and LOTS of upgrades and starters. I dont' think giving up two 1st round draft picks and paying Justin Houston $16mm/yr is the way to go. If we could pay JH the money w/o the draft picks, I would probably do it - but not both - no way, no how - too many holes!

Great argument and one where I struggle with--how bad are we? The reality barring quinn and shanahan seeing something we don't means a full re-boot or rebuild.

I think I said earlier and if I didnt it really comes down to how quinn views this roster.

But if quinn looks out and sees a good decent core that's void on playmakers..then such a trade is smart. In that case you fill your holes and look for gems in rds 2-7.

Tough call. But that aside, even you agree having a studly pass rusher would be great lol

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Same example I used earlier in response to g dawg. Nobody has a response for Abe. You know why? Because Abe was a Falcon and Orakpo isn't. No objectivity. That's why people want Spoon back but don't want to touch Orakpo.

the reason people want Spoon back - is we drafted him with our 1st round pick - and we want to see a return on that investment - if we don't re-sign him, we have to admit that his tenure here was a failure.

As far as Orakpo, he is an UFA coming from another team - there has been no personal fan investment nor team investment of draft pick in him the way there is with Spoon.

Also, Spoon should come at a much cheaper price than Orakpo so the risk is not as great in signing Spoon vs. Orakpo.

So, while the difference is subjective(I agree) - it is understandably so AND the dollars at risk should be less w/ Spoon as it is likely to be a considerably lower contract value.

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I agree Tandy - just another reason I don't want him.

Of all players in free agency, signing Orakpo screams for it to be a reasonable deal - it won't be.

Personally, I would not sign Orakpo to a 4yr, $24mm deal with $12mm guaranteed - but that is a reasonable deal.

With all these teams with huge amounts of cash under the salary cap, it is going to be a players market and teams are going to overpay relative to intrinsic value.

To get Orakpo, it might be a 5yr, $38mm deal with $16mm guaranteed - he is nowhere near worth that.

He's not worth a 5yr/ 16 mil Guranteed deal???

Really?

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How much does injury history detract from your asking price. I SERIOUSLY doubt it's that much. I could be wrong. But I just can't fathom guys like Percy Harvin and Justin Tuck and Julius Pepper can get paid after injury plagued seasons but not Orakpo.

None of those guys you listed had multiple season ending injuries in a row to the same body part. His pec is probably held on with fishing string at this point.

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How much does injury history detract from your asking price. I SERIOUSLY doubt it's that much. I could be wrong. But I just can't fathom guys like Percy Harvin and Justin Tuck and Julius Pepper can get paid after injury plagued seasons but not Orakpo.

my point is - not for the Falcons. Will somebody overpay Orakpo? sure.....do I think it should be the Falcons? NO

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I don't think success will be sustainable for Falcons if we have Matt at $22mm/yr, Julio at $16mm/yr and Justin Houston at $16mm/yr. History in the NFL has shown us that you cannot buy a SuperBowl title. Maybe somebody has a good example but in 49 years of SuperBowl winners I cannot think of one. Deion hopped from Falcons to Niners to Cowboys and won two rings but those two teams were already 90% complete when he went there and were already great teams. You don't "Free Agent Your Way" to a SuperBowl - you build thru the draft and supplement in free agency.

I just don't buy that giving up two first rounders and overpaying JH by 20% to get KC not to match is the way to go. What also happens in those situations is - you need those superstars to play all 16 games - think about it, five games into the season and Falcons Justin Houston gets hurt - that is two 1st round draft picks and 12% of your salary cap - on the bench.

Can't do it.

Shouldn't do it.

Won't do it.

Agreed.

The list of teams who won super bowls after adding key components in free agency is small. Brees and Faulk are 2 examples, but I don't think either were considered elite FA's when acquired. Deion is another example, but he took a cheap deals to play for Contenders in SF and Dallas.

Giving up two first rounds pciks and paying huge money for Houston would be suicidal. We could address at least 4 or 5 needs with those picks and cap $ and would be a much better team with a handful of needs filled that with all our reosurces tied up in one overpaid player.

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Orakpo is on NFL network now and he was just talking about his injuries. He said after his second injury he started wondering what was up and then when he got injured a 3rd time(tearing his pec a 2nd time)he started looking at his workout routine.

He said he was normally a workout warrior, but didn't stretch much. He said he realized his upper body was staying very tight all the time and he has now completely changed up his workout routine.

I wish all players would realize how important proper stretching is. A lot of them don't understand it until they have multiple injuries.

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Orakpo is on NFL network now and he was just talking about his injuries. He said after his second injury he started wondering what was up and then when he got injured a 3rd time(tearing his pec a 2nd time)he started looking at his workout routine.

He said he was normally a workout warrior, but didn't stretch much. He said he realized his upper body was staying very tight all the time and he has now completely changed up his workout routine.

I wish all players would realize how important proper stretching is. A lot of them don't understand it until they have multiple injuries.

Foam rolling and using a lacrosse ball to relieve the tightness and trigger points. Have to get those trigger points out along with stretching otherwise stretching won't have its full effect like it should.

If Orakpo comes to Atlanta then maybe someone could introduce him to Al Horford.

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Foam rolling and using a lacrosse ball to relieve the tightness and trigger points. Have to get those trigger points out along with stretching otherwise stretching won't have its full effect like it should.

If Orakpo comes to Atlanta then maybe someone could introduce him to Al Horford.

I know Horford changed up his routine too and so far so good, but I can't help but occasionally worry since he tore his pec twice as well. That is why I'm concerned with Orakpo. I think there is a good chance that both guys will be fine if they stick to a routine that emphasizes staying loose. It sounds like they both are doing what needs to be done.

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I know Horford changed up his routine too and so far so good, but I can't help but occasionally worry since he tore his pec twice as well. That is why I'm concerned with Orakpo. I think there is a good chance that both guys will be fine if they stick to a routine that emphasizes staying loose. It sounds like they both are doing what needs to be done.

I hear ya man.

I really don't understand tearing your pec twice.

In a nutshell, poor maintenance on your body. Could be from not stretching/other methods to reduce tightness/poor weightlifting technique.

But a big factor in tearing a muscle is the presence of a muscle imbalance between certain muscle groups. Muscle imbalances usually stem from one particular muscle being incredibly stronger or weaker than that muscle's antagonist (opposite).

In Orakpo's case; he might've emphasized working out his chest 5X more the amount than he emphasized on working out his upper back. The chest is responsible for pushing motions and the upper back functions in pulling motions (opposite motions hence that the chest and upper back are antagonists of one another).

So let's suppose that Orakpo's pecs are dominantly stronger than his upper back:

  • His pecs are a lot stronger than his upper back and his pecs are constantly shifting his shoulders towards the front of the body.
  • His upper back should be pulling the shoulders towards the back of the body but fails to do so because his upper back is a lot weaker in comparison to his pecs.
  • Because his pecs are a lot stronger than his upper back and his shoulders are shifting towards the front of the body, a muscle imbalance commonly referred to as "rounded shoulders" occurs.
  • In this case, Orakpo's pecs are stressed (tight) and overactive because his upper back isn't strong enough to pull (re-balance) the shoulders back towards the back of his body.
  • Working out the pecs with extreme tightness can lead to muscle tears and anatomical changes in the shoulders.

It's actually more complicated than that because other muscles become problematic in situations like this, but that's the most simple way that I can put it.

In this case, Orakpo needs to loosen up the chest (and probably at least 5 other muscles) and strengthen his upper back muscles.

Edited by CTann
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