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Rhonda Rousey - Greatest Ufc Fighter That Has Ever Lived.


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Cyborg can use her BJJ more when fighting in MMA but hasn't needed to. She generally just knocks her opponent the F out. Hopefully if she ever fights Rousey she will be tested and put her BJJ to use.

5 of Cyborg's fights have gone 3 rounds or further (1 out of 3 fights go 3+ rounds) not including her loss in the 1st round by submission. She has had ample opportunity, has needed to use her BJJ more, and hasn't.

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Cyborg won 2 world BJJ competitions. That's more than Ronda can say. Cyborg has competed at the top level in BJJ. Ronda has not. Simply put, Cyborg is world class in striking and BJJ. Ronda is world class in Judo. They have competed against the very best in those disciplines.

Cyborg can use her BJJ more when fighting in MMA but hasn't needed to. She generally just knocks her opponent the F out. Hopefully if she ever fights Rousey she will be tested and put her BJJ to use.

Competition BJJ and MMA BJJ are two different things. BJ Penn is one of the greatest BJJ competitors on the planet, and is one of my favorite MMA fighters, but is hardly elite among MMA competitors. I've seen Matt Hughes sub guys who are highly decorated in BJJ. It's a different world, and it really doesn't translate very well at all.

Now, that doesn't mean you can win in MMA without BJJ. It just means you don't have to be decorated to learn how to use it in that arena.

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So are you saying it doesn't matter than Cyborg has competed on a world class stage in BJJ but it DOES matter that Rousey has competed on a world class stage in judo?

I think if you are one of the best in the world at something, it's certainly going to help in the Octagon. That said you can't rely on only one discipline. Gotta be a jack of many trades to do MMA.

It only matters how it translates. So in a sense, yes it matters to the extent either of them use it to further their MMA prowess. But in another sense, it doesn't matter at all if they can't translate it to the Octogon.

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The point that SB keeps missing is that both fighters are very skilled in BJJ and the ground game. Nobody is saying that Cyborg doesn't have grappling skills. [My point is that she doesn't seem to use them in actual fights very much.] But SB keeps implying that Ronda Rousey is just some judo specialist with one technique (arm bar). Rousey has submitted skilled grapplers and she has knocked out people known for kickboxing abilities. Of the two fighters, she has shown the broadest range of techniques in actual fights.

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Competition BJJ and MMA BJJ are two different things. BJ Penn is one of the greatest BJJ competitors on the planet, and is one of my favorite MMA fighters, but is hardly elite among MMA competitors. I've seen Matt Hughes sub guys who are highly decorated in BJJ. It's a different world, and it really doesn't translate very well at all.

Now, that doesn't mean you can win in MMA without BJJ. It just means you don't have to be decorated to learn how to use it in that arena.

That's a whole lot of BJ's....

I'll show myself out...emot-tiphat.gifemot-yikes.gif

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So are you saying it doesn't matter than Cyborg has competed on a world class stage in BJJ but it DOES matter that Rousey has competed on a world class stage in judo?

I think if you are one of the best in the world at something, it's certainly going to help in the Octagon. That said you can't rely on only one discipline. Gotta be a jack of many trades to do MMA.

It doesn't matter, and I'll tell you why. In BJJ or judo competitions, opponents are limited to competing in the discipline of that specific competition. Once fighters are in the Octagon, there is a completely different mindset of competition for fighters. For instance, Rousey approaches competition in the ring using strikes to create openings for her submissions first, with striking for KO's second. Cyborg forces her approach to competition in the ring using strikes to KO opponents. Even in grappling, she looks to get into position for ground and pound, rarely ever looking for a submission. This is very successful for Cyborg and I'm not knocking her striking at all, but she does not look for ways to integrate her BJJ experience in her fights in the ring, so it really is a non-factor in her fights and makes her past BJJ experience insignificant when comparing her to Rousey's approach to the Octagon.

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I have been learning jiu-jitsu for about a year now. I train with a few guys with mma experience and my coach used to fight in Strikeforce. I can tell you that there are some distinct differences between the jiu-jitsu used in grappling tournaments, and that which is used in cage fights.

My coach always says that in a real fight, the best way to pass guard is a right hand to the mouth.

Kickboxing isn't mma. Jiu-jitsu isn't mma. Judo isn't mma. Only mma is mma.

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I saw a Muay Thai clinch takedown (not BJJ), a failed attempted triangle choke, Cyborg almost getting caught in a knee bar but muscling her way out. I didn't see any attempt to use BJJ for submission beyond the triangle choke, which looked like a weak attempt anyway.

That video supports what many of us are saying about Cyborg...she's a striker who has some experience in grappling that helps her on defense. To call her a "world class BJJ expert" is just laughable. That's not how she fights and that's not who she is in the ring.

Rousey has shown unbelievable submission skills in the ring. That 14 second armlock with her legs was sick. I've seen nothing of that caliber from Cyborg. To say that Cyborg is somehow the better grappler...there's just no evidence of that.

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I have been learning jiu-jitsu for about a year now. I train with a few guys with mma experience and my coach used to fight in Strikeforce. I can tell you that there are some distinct differences between the jiu-jitsu used in grappling tournaments, and that which is used in cage fights.

My coach always says that in a real fight, the best way to pass guard is a right hand to the mouth.

Kickboxing isn't mma. Jiu-jitsu isn't mma. Judo isn't mma. Only mma is mma.

That's true, but it's also not even relevant. Cyborg has never ended a fight with a submission, I don't believe. Rousey has ended fights with both submissions and striking.

That doesn't prove that Rousey is the better MMA fighter. But it completely debunks SB's claim that Cyborg is somehow the more rounded, broadly skilled fighter and that Rousey is somehow a one-trick pony (arm bar).

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You guys talking about how Cyborg doesn't use BJJ obviously haven't seen many Cyborg fights. Watch this one to see some BJJ usage. In this match she out grapples a grappler.

http://youtu.be/BF6x30onzYY

It looked to me like Cyborg got completely owned grappling until her opponent sold out for the leg or foot lock submission attempt. Then Cyborg took the fight over with striking.

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She took it to the ground with a submission specialist, got top position, and defended several submission attempts. And that is getting completely owned grappling? If she got completely owned grappling she would have tapped out early or at least not gotten top position. C'mon man... I get it you like Rousey. But you can't say that Cyborg got "completely owned" grappling in that match. Cyborg dominated every aspect of that match. Some intellectual honesty please.

When I make these arguments, I am not saying that Rousey sux, not at all. The bottom line, and I think almost all of us can agree on this is that barring a fluke, Cyborg is the only female fighter that has a real chance at beating Rousey.

But instead of doing everything to make serious cash and give the public what they want, Rousey plans to fight Meisha Tate for the 3rd time and work on a movie. Doesn't sound like she has any plans on taking on her most dangerous opponent even if Cyborg can somehow get to 135.

If you drop $70 on Rousey vs Tate 3 then you are simply not being a good consumer lol. 3rd matches should only happen if two opponents split the first 2 matches (for example Holyfield vs Bowe). There's no point in a 3rd match if one fighter has already won two. People should boycott this garbage that Dana and Rousey are giving us.

I have seen a quote from Dana saying that the fight would be made tomorrow if Cyborg can get to 135. So far, she hasn't even made 140 so I think it's ridiculous to assert whose scared and who isn't when no one knows if Cyborg can even make the weight.

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She took it to the ground with a submission specialist, got top position, and defended several submission attempts. And that is getting completely owned grappling? If she got completely owned grappling she would have tapped out early or at least not gotten top position. C'mon man... I get it you like Rousey. But you can't say that Cyborg got "completely owned" grappling in that match. Cyborg dominated every aspect of that match. Some intellectual honesty please.

When I make these arguments, I am not saying that Rousey sux, not at all. The bottom line, and I think almost all of us can agree on this is that barring a fluke, Cyborg is the only female fighter that has a real chance at beating Rousey.

But instead of doing everything to make serious cash and give the public what they want, Rousey plans to fight Meisha Tate for the 3rd time and work on a movie. Doesn't sound like she has any plans on taking on her most dangerous opponent even if Cyborg can somehow get to 135.

If you drop $70 on Rousey vs Tate 3 then you are simply not being a good consumer lol. 3rd matches should only happen if two opponents split the first 2 matches (for example Holyfield vs Bowe). There's no point in a 3rd match if one fighter has already won two. People should boycott this garbage that Dana and Rousey are giving us.

Let me rephrase my statement. She took Cyborg down and got in a control position relatively quickly. I think you would probably agree that she made a mistake going for the submission by giving up her back to Cyborg and Cyborg was able to capitalize on it. Cyborg was able to keep from the submission getting locked in, which was good defense, but I did not see any display of out-grappling a grappler. She willingly gave up position to go for the submission, which was a mistake that allowed Cyborg to get back to striking.

I agree 100% that Cyborg would have the best shot of beating Rousey. I just don't agree that Rousey should view Cyborg as a champion she should move up in weight to fight. If Cyborg wants to be recognized as a UFC champion, a far more notable league than the one she currently competes in, then Cyborg should challenge Rousey at the weight Rousey holds the championship in UFC. It's silly to say Rousey is ducking Cyborg if Cyborg is unwilling to fight within the rules of the league Rousey is a reigning champion in.

It's like saying Randy Couture ducked Emilienko (sic) at a time when he wouldn't fight in the UFC. He was a great champion of the leagues he fought in, but he wasn't willing to sign or make the fight in the UFC, so you can't blame Couture for not chasing him.

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The whole weight thing is a pizz poor excuse.

  • Rousey has fought at 145 in her first 4 MMA fights
  • Rousey competed in Judo at 153 pounds and walks around at 160
  • Rousey offered to fight Gina Carano at 145 but not the woman that beat Carano
  • Cyborg has never fought at 135
Ya the champ doesn't have to chase blah blah blah but Cyborg is the undisputed champ at 145. By all measures she's the best in the world at 145.

Ronda doesn't want to do the fight because she knows it's very dangerous to fight Cyborg at her best (at 145). Joe Rogan thinks so too:

Joe Rogan: Everyone Should Fear Cyborg at 145, Including Ronda Rousey

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2397661-joe-rogan-everyone-should-fear-cyborg-at-145-including-ronda-rousey

Cyborg might be able to make 140 but that's pushing it. Ronda would only fight Cyborg if she is a smaller, weaker version of Cyborg at 135 or if Cyborg nearly kills herself trying to make weight. In other words, skeered.

Why should the onus be on Ronda to fight where Cyborg is her best? Doesn't Cyborg have something to prove as well? Isn't she a champion too?

In speaking in the realm of reality for a moment, the fight isn't happening at anywhere but 135 because it would make no business sense for the UFC to do so. Plus Rousey has that luxury of not needing to chase the fight. Guys like you can call her scared, but that's not going to matter a bit because she's the biggest name in the sport.

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Well I'm going to agree with Joe Rogan and say Rousey can't call herself the baddest female on the planet if she won't fight Cyborg at 145 or even 140.

She can claim she's the baddest female at 135 and that's it.

And Cyborg can only claim to be the baddest at 145. We don't even know if she can make 140.

This is why combat sports have weight divisions.

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A better comparison might be Georges St Pierre vs Silva, except both of them were UFC champs. St Pierre didn't want to move up and fight Silva at a weight he was fighting his entire career and sometimes had trouble even making that weight. Silva had no interest in fighting at a weight Pierre was fighting his entire career. Silva couldn't even make it at a catchweight, which is where Cyborg is now.

Rousey fought at 145lbs, but she was overweight at 145. She is a better fighter at 135, where she cuts down to. I think Rousey would be an idiot to fight Cyborg at 145. The fact remains that Cyborg did juice and she is ripped at 145. Rousey would not be able to add 10lbs of muscle to compete at 145 with her and would be at a significant strength disadvantage. Cyborg could sacrifice a little bit of strength to fight at 135, but she would still be ripped and wouldn't have to take on bad weight like Rousey would to fight at 145.

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But I do agree with Rogan that having a 145 pound women's class in the UFC would greatly increase the chances of the fight happening because then the UFC would be able to promote the winner. If Cyborg wins a catchweight fight where the UFC has no weight division, they don't get anything out of it.

Is it even legal for someone (e.g., Cyborg) to hold a title/belt in a division that she has not made weight?

In other words, I don't think it's legally possible for Rousey to defend her championship in a fight with Cyborg unless Cyborg makes 135. Otherwise, you have a "champion" who can't defend that title because she can't make weight in that division.

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<p>

The difference is that Cyborg has 2 gold medals from the International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation world championships.

Here's a list of Cyborg's non-MMA accolades:

International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation

  • 2012 IBJJF World Jiu-Jitsu Championship Female Purple Belt Gold Medalist
  • 2011 IBJJF World Jiu-Jitsu Championship Female Purple Belt Gold Medalist
Abu Dhabi Combat Club
  • 2009 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championship Bronze Medalist
Kickboxing - AwakeningFighters.com Muay Thai Awards
  • 2014 Fight of the Year vs. Jorina Baars at Lion Fight 14
Federação Paulista de Luta Olímpica
  • 2007 Brazil Cup International Senior Women's Freestyle Gold Medalist (Wrestling)
Federação Paranaense de Lutas Associadas
  • Paraná Senior Women's Freestyle State Championship (2007) (Wrestling)
I would say that gives the edge to Cyborg in BJJ
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Well I'm going to agree with Joe Rogan and say Rousey can't call herself the baddest female on the planet if she won't fight Cyborg at 145 or even 140.

She can claim she's the baddest female at 135 and that's it.

Generally speaking, P4P is where people make claim to the baddest on the planet. If we are ignoring P4P in the context of the statement, Floyd can't say he's the baddest boxer on the planet until he fights Klitschko.

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I would say that gives the edge to Cyborg in BJJ

Maybe BJJ specifically, but not grappling generally. Rousey is an Olympic medalist in Judo and (again) has demonstrated superior grappling skills in actual MMA fights. Cyborg has shown good defense as a way to set up striking, but has not shown actual submission skills in her MMA fights.

I don't understand how anyone can say that Cyborg is the superior grappler.

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Is it even legal for someone (e.g., Cyborg) to hold a title/belt in a division that she has not made weight?

In other words, I don't think it's legally possible for Rousey to defend her championship in a fight with Cyborg unless Cyborg makes 135. Otherwise, you have a "champion" who can't defend that title because she can't make weight in that division.

If they fought at 140 or 145, it could not be for the championship. So if Cyborg won, the UFC would not even be able to promote the woman who just beat Ronda Rousey because they don't have a weight division for her in which to fight. That's why I say it makes zero sense for the UFC to have this fight at any weight other than 135.
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