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Some Hawk Questions For Basketball Folks . . . .


HolyMoses
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I am a marginal basketball fan at best. But I understand that in most sports, everything starts and ends with keeping feet moving, especially on defense.

And that would explain why the Hawks are able to win nearly EVERY NIGHT with their system. Their movement offense and obsessive passing forces every player on the opposing team to work hard on defense. That not only creates open shots (especially late in the shot clock and at the end of halves when fatigue kicks in for the defense and the feet stop moving . . . ) but takes the edge off of the opposing teams stars when it is time to generate offense (when the Hawks are on defense.)

However, it seems like the Hawks rely more on perimeter shooting than most teams. They lack the type of talent that can create instant offense driving the lane and getting to the hoop. (With the occasional exception of Teague and Schroeder, who can be fairly explosive, but they lack the size to get there consistently.)

When you rely on perimeter shooting, you are eventually going to have cold nights. So that makes the current streak that much more remarkable.

How are they winning every night while relying on perimeter shooting?

How will their system translate to playoff basketball? Is it reasonable to be concerned that their lack of a superstar and rebounding size, along with their reliance on perimeter shooting, create problems?

It seems like that would be a greater concern in a single elimination tournament and with a younger team. So they might lose games in the playoffs, but it seems like their system will be effective over a 7 game series.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

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Thing is, they aren't really that young. The starting 5 has an average age of 29, with the youngest being Teague at 26 (hard to believe he's been in the league since 2009). They have a ton of playoff experience, with Horford and Teague making it every year they've been in the league and even more when you include Brand, Korver, Millsap and Sefelosha. They do have some youth on the bench, but most of those guys outside of Schroeder have been in the league for years.

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There's an old saying that goes "Nothing on the court moves as fast as the ball" which is the very basis for this scheme.

I totally get what you're saying, and as a Duke fan, I have seen this come to fruition many times.

This might get sporadic because I'll try to touch on a few different reasons.

1. Everyone in the rotation can hit a 3. Even AL is shooting 35%. Thats the first thing that sets then apart and keeps them from the proverbial "there's a lid on the rim" nights.

2. The hawks have 6 guys that can get to the rim rather easily. Teague, Dennis, Millsap, horford, Thabo, and baze. Basketball is a simple possession to possession sport. A made basket makes all the difference. On nights when guys can't shoot, these 6 guys make a world of difference. You might go 7 minutes of cold shooting but these guys will still get you buckets. Which is why you rarely see the Hawks go through slumps like most teams. Basketball is a game of runs doesn't really apply to this team.

3. My original point "the ball is the fastest thing on the court" is my last point. This is where selfless basketball comes into play. The hawks don't stop moving. The ball doesn't stop moving. This type of scheme creates so many shots from all over the floor which prevents the hawks from just attempting to drain deep balls all night. How many times a night do we see amazing cuts to the basket? This helps prevent slumps.

4. Lastly, the hawks are a top 5 defensive team and among the best in steals. This creates a wealth of easy baskets. How many times have we seen a close game get blown wide open because Teague and Millsap get steals on 3 straight possessions?

Outside of rebounding, the hawks are a complete team and that's just something you cant beat consistently. This is where they differ from a team like Duke who struggles in the postseason. They can score any way they want. And because they can do that, they get open shots every night. It is nearly impossible for 11 guys to be stone cold from everywhere on the court all night long.

Tldr-the Hawks are a complete team on both sides of the court and can create offense in every way imaginable. It's nearly impossible to stop.

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Thing is, they aren't really that young. The starting 5 has an average age of 29, with the youngest being Teague at 26 (hard to believe he's been in the league since 2009). They have a ton of playoff experience, with Horford and Teague making it every year they've been in the league and even more when you include Brand, Korver, Millsap and Sefelosha. They do have some youth on the bench, but most of those guys outside of Schroeder have been in the league for years.

The thing is we have some good young players to replace them.

Schroder-A more passive Teague role

Scott-Play Milsap's Role

Moose-Al's role (mostly mid range)

Bazemore-Caroll's defensive slasher role

All were missing is a sharp shooter... But that could be Jenkins

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Thing is, they aren't really that young. The starting 5 has an average age of 29, with the youngest being Teague at 26 (hard to believe he's been in the league since 2009). They have a ton of playoff experience, with Horford and Teague making it every year they've been in the league and even more when you include Brand, Korver, Millsap and Sefelosha. They do have some youth on the bench, but most of those guys outside of Schroeder have been in the league for years.

Right . . . I was saying that I would be MORE concerned if the team did not have the experience that it does and if the playoffs were single elimination (rather than best of 7).

On the bench, Schroeder seems impervious to pressure and Mack had final four experience at Butler.

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Right . . . I was saying that I would be MORE concerned if the team did not have the experience that it does and if the playoffs were single elimination (rather than best of 7).

On the bench, Schroeder seems impervious to pressure and Mack had final four experience at Butler.

Gotcha. Misread what you were saying.

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Jenkins wasn't able to crack the lineup on a team STARVED for a backup guard last year. Have no confidence in him at all.

Jenkins sucks.

There's no point to play a guy who may give you 10 points but give up 12, over a guy like Thabo who will give you 8 put only surrender 4 points.

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That's a cool way to look at it WOR

I can't stand one way players.

It's not all about talent. Most of it is just endurance. There's no substitute for activity on defense. Especially at the backup 2. Guarding that position is a lot about staying in front of someone or sticking to them like glue. Rarely will you find a backup like Crawford who can drive and shoot. So most times you're defending either a shooter or a driver. Which goes back to being disciplined to stay in front of them, or in shape enough to chase them around for 10 minutes.

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There's an old saying that goes "Nothing on the court moves as fast as the ball" which is the very basis for this scheme.

I totally get what you're saying, and as a Duke fan, I have seen this come to fruition many times.

This might get sporadic because I'll try to touch on a few different reasons.

1. Everyone in the rotation can hit a 3. Even AL is shooting 35%. Thats the first thing that sets then apart and keeps them from the proverbial "there's a lid on the rim" nights.

2. The hawks have 6 guys that can get to the rim rather easily. Teague, Dennis, Millsap, horford, Thabo, and baze. Basketball is a simple possession to possession sport. A made basket makes all the difference. On nights when guys can't shoot, these 6 guys make a world of difference. You might go 7 minutes of cold shooting but these guys will still get you buckets. Which is why you rarely see the Hawks go through slumps like most teams. Basketball is a game of runs doesn't really apply to this team.

3. My original point "the ball is the fastest thing on the court" is my last point. This is where selfless basketball comes into play. The hawks don't stop moving. The ball doesn't stop moving. This type of scheme creates so many shots from all over the floor which prevents the hawks from just attempting to drain deep balls all night. How many times a night do we see amazing cuts to the basket? This helps prevent slumps.

4. Lastly, the hawks are a top 5 defensive team and among the best in steals. This creates a wealth of easy baskets. How many times have we seen a close game get blown wide open because Teague and Millsap get steals on 3 straight possessions?

Outside of rebounding, the hawks are a complete team and that's just something you cant beat consistently. This is where they differ from a team like Duke who struggles in the postseason. They can score any way they want. And because they can do that, they get open shots every night. It is nearly impossible for 11 guys to be stone cold from everywhere on the court all night long.

Tldr-the Hawks are a complete team on both sides of the court and can create offense in every way imaginable. It's nearly impossible to stop.

I wonder how much of the Hawks proficiency with steals is related to their offense? It seems like it gets back to the pressure they put on teams to move when then are playing defense creates the fatigue that contributes to sloppy play and turnovers . . .

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Not to hijack your thread Moses, but do we think the Hawks make a move before the deadline?

Dear LORD I hope not!!! I am a life long St. Louis Blues fan and I remember Garth Butcher.

Late in the 1990–91 season, the St. Louis Blues were in first place overall and GM Ron Caron was looking to improve the team's defence for the playoffs. On March 5, 1991, at the trade deadline, Caron traded four players and 1992 fifth-round pick (Brian Loney) to Vancouver for Butcher and Dan Quinn, a small but skilled centre. Butcher was the key player for the Blues, with Quinn added due to the Canucks hard negotiating. The Blues traded away Geoff Courtnall, Robert Dirk, Sergio Momesso, Cliff Ronning – who as a group invigorated the Canucks for a number of years and eventually helped their new team advance to the 1994 Stanley Cup Final.

The Butcher trade helped the Canucks but cost Butcher's new team dearly. Trading away such depth cost the Blues a second scoring line behind Brett Hull and Adam Oates. As a result, the trade was blamed for the Blues defeat at the hands of the Minnesota North Stars in the second round of the playoffs. (The Stars would make it all the way to the Finals). Quinn was gone from the team shortly after the playoff disappointment. The Butcher trade (together with a later lopsided deal favoring the Canucks) was regarded by media and fans as one of the top 5 heartbreakers for the St. Louis Blues.[10]

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We could snag a 2nd for him... Cmon Memphis Yall need a 3 balled

Agreed. Id love to turn Jenkins into a college guy that might not be the most athletic or undersized. There are plenty of guys in that round who are one thing away from being a solid piece. With Bud's development skills it would be a travesty to not give him as many players as possible.

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I wonder how much of the Hawks proficiency with steals is related to their offense? It seems like it gets back to the pressure they put on teams to move when then are playing defense creates the fatigue that contributes to sloppy play and turnovers . . .

That is absolutely a part of it. Another factor, that goes back to offensive efficiency, is that amount of time other teams have to spend in half court offenses.

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Agreed. Id love to turn Jenkins into a college guy that might not be the most athletic or undersized. There are plenty of guys in that round who are one thing away from being a solid piece. With Bud's development skills it would be a travesty to not give him as many players as possible.

Maybe somebody will take him... Lol my first move when I start an association on 2k with ATL is to trade Jenkins... Washington offered me Webster and a 2016 2nd

Edited by DB#11_And_The_Polls
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My biggest complaint about this team, and it's truly a huge part of basketball that gets ignored, is the ability to draw fouls.

Hawks bigs are extremely poor at it.

Fouls are such a HUGE part of the game.

1. More fouls. More time in the bonus. More points.

2. More fouls on big men, more time they have to spend on the bench. More time we can win the rebound differential. I wish when we played guys like DeAndre Jordan we made an effort to go right at him and get him out of the game. Getting guys like that out of the game nearly guarantees you a win.

IMO this is also the best way to help the hawks win the rebounding game because we definitely don't have the size to do it the conventional way.

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