Supes™ Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The problem is that you're talking in generalities like "winning good, losing bad." In the abstract, of course that's true.But if you talk specifics, it's not always the case. 4-12 and picking sixth is a measurably worse position than 3-13 and picking second. I'm not comparing 8-8 to 2-14, or winning generally to losing.Fair enough. But I can just hear the great Vince Lombardi now:"Alright boys, we need a big top-rated nose guard in the draft. Now get out there and LOSE THIS GAME!"Naw. "Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing!" That's what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Chief Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This really couldn't go in any of the other threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkOffFalcohol Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This really couldn't go in any of the other threads?seriously though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzummo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ok. Let me make sure I "fully" understand what this debate is about.Option 1: Lose two Division games to the Saints and Panthers, allowing one of them to win the Division, possibly the first to win 2 crowns in a row, so we can get a top 10 pick.Option 2: Beat both of our Division rivals, knocking them both out of Playoff eligibility, hanging a Division Champs banner in our Dome, hosting a Playoff game, but dropping down 10-15 spots in the draft.Seriously? This is debatable? F that. Beat the Saints and Panthers. A higher draft pick is a consolation prize to soften the blow of losing, not an achievement award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvin31063 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I take it that this has been a consensus on the board since Sunday. Sorry haven't been too thorough catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockSamson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Fair enough. But I can just hear the great Vince Lombardi now:"Alright boys, we need a big top-rated nose guard in the draft. Now get out there and LOSE THIS GAME!"Naw. "Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing!" That's what he said.I never expect coaches or players to try to lose. It would be stupid, dangerous, and against their self interest. But, that doesn't mean that actually winning is always the best thing for the long term health of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Chief Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's not the consensus at all but there are alot of topics with the same thing in the title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supes™ Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I never expect coaches or players to try to lose. It would be stupid, dangerous, and against their self interest. But, that doesn't mean that actually winning is always the best thing for the long term health of the franchise.Wow. Just wow. But whatever. Gotta go to work. Y'all have fun and keep it civil. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lornoth Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I can not fathom ever, under any circumstances, no matter the situation ever EVER wanting the Ain's to win a football game. I want that dirty, cheating, ******* team to go as close to 0-16 as possible every **** year, i don't care that their draft position would be great, and i don't care ours could be either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconJim Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I don't want us to go to the playoffs. Simply because I have a strange feeling that Blank will use that and give this front office and coaching staff more time. I really do not want to see Nolan back, I'm sorry but I rather see him go more than Smitty. This defense can't stop anyone it's apparent after each quarterback lights us up, they go onto having a really bad game. Even this proved with Aaron Rodgers,not at all saying he's a bad quarterback though. But we should have at least kept him in check more than we did. Be honest, the Pack played conservatively the second half. I think we could make a lot of noise in the playoffs if we had a 3rd Down defense but we don't. So with that, I don't want Blank getting false hope with this staff simply because the division is absolutely horrible this season. Priority of firings as they should occur in precedence. 1. Mike Nolan 2. TD 3. Smitty 4. Cox(could need another year but he's done nothing) Should not be fired is Mike Tice of course... Koetter is questionable as the offense performs but should be even more explosive than it is but the playcalling has never gone for the kill... ever. We have rarely put teams away with his playcalling and I'm not sure if that's him or Smitty's doing. I'm sure someone here knows.I stopped reading at "I don't want us to go to the Playoffs" --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockSamson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Wow. Just wow. But whatever. Gotta go to work. Y'all have fun and keep it civil. Later. Not sure what the "wow" is for. If it's the last game of a terrible, losing season, and a win means dropping several draft spots (and thus the ability to ensure you draft exactly who you want or the leverage to trade for more picks), winning THAT game is bad.Edit: similarly, if winning that last game means a bad coach keeps his job, ensuring more terrible seasons in the future, then winning THAT game is bad. Being myopically focused on one game is a bad way to run a franchise. Edited December 16, 2014 by BrockSamson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Flare Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 OP is crazy and correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafalconfan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Lets have this conversation ... Playoffs vs Higher draft pick.I get both sides of the argument ... Playoff argument is that you're suppose to want your team to win and succeed.The draft pick argument is that if we are not a true contender... We need the highest pick so we can bring in better talent to become a true contender.We will either pick 7th or 21st .... This the thing about picking 7th ..... At the 7th pick who do you pick .... Shane Ray , Randy Greg, and big Williams is most likely gone.... Who are you willing to lose for ... I like Beastly but i will say a guy like Eli Harold is a similar player ... I see him moving up into the late 1st round after this combine season .... In this draft ... To me the players you can get at 7 or 8 to 21 are not a big drop offThe true value i see in picking high in this year draft is not the first round pick ... But the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round high picks ... I think you can get some good prospects with those picks.But even saying that ... If we can make the playoffs and face a team like the Cards or the lions ... We can beat those teams and it feels good to beat the saints and make the playoffs.Thanks for bringing this up. Fans do forget it's not just the top ten 1st round pick that is valuable, but the top of the second and third rounds are really good football players and we are not just a player away. We are "players" away from being a contender again. For the 2015 draft DE is a deep position which is our greatest need, but LB, secondary, you name it. And we didn't even talk about a stud RB..we got holes everywhere man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconsd56 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 There is no debate............Going for a higher pick is stupid. A higher draft pick just means you have more busts to pick from.Getting into the playoffs means you at least have a chance at winning the Superbowl... A higher pick does not.If that was the case the Browns, Jaguars, Raiders, and a few other teams would be in contention for the playoffs year in and year out............They are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollo lawson Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm about sick and tired of these wanna be mods trying to police this board. The dude had something to say. Just respect it and move on. Damnnnnn!!And BTW, I agree 99%. That 1% disagreement. Koetter needs to hit the road too. We should have never hired Brian Cox. Our next dline coach needs to be a teacher of leverage and pass rush moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Teams ahead of us:BucsTitansJagsRaidersRedskinsJetsI think there will be 2 QBs taken in the top 6 and the Raiders need a receiver to pair with Carr. That's 3 players gone. There's a good chance we come up one pick short again..I agree... Just like last year with Mack and Clowney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvin31063 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yea these aspiring mods are the reason I rarely post. They seem to just troll any threads just to attack them. It is really annoying actually. But yes, I wouldn't be hurt to see Koetter go as I'm partial on him... I despise his screens with a passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandtrap Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 You guys are nuts. All of you. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest facelessman07 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Some of these same people who want us to make the playoffs will be the same ones who will get upset when we can't draft a top pass rusherOh, wait...we can just trade up and sacrifice the depth of our team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Some of these same people who want us to make the playoffs will be the same ones who will get upset when we can't draft a top pass rusherOh, wait...we can just trade up and sacrifice the depth of our teamyou trading up from 7 to get a top rusher if we dont make the playoffs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfishtom Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 YepCrazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Ocean Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 We don't care for your analytical analysis around here, Brock. Stop being a fake fan. Winning good, losing bad. *beats chest* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest facelessman07 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 you trading up from 7 to get a top rusher if we dont make the playoffs ?No, my post was contingent upon making the playoffs. We'd be picking in the 20's then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atljbo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No, my post was contingent upon making the playoffs. We'd be picking in the 20's thenIf we pick at 7 we are still not getting Ray or Greg... Its atleast a 95% chance they wont be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romfal Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Win out we make the playoffs. Lose out, we get a top 7 draft pick. Obviously I want the first scenario, but I can see us losing in New Orleans, the winning a meaningless game in week 17 to go 6-10 and miss on both the playoffs and a top 10 pick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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