Should I Feel Bad For Wanting A Top 10 Pick More Than I Want To Make The Playoffs

[freebird310]

why do you care what I think? I don't influence 0.00000000001% whether the Falcons will win or lose on Sunday. They will win or lose on their own accord - not because of what a fan like me or you or anybody else thinks.

I don't care what you think I'm just responding to your posts like message boarders do bro. I know you are very intelligent so I just don't get why you believe a higher draft pick is better than making the playoffs. I will STFU now.

[Supes™]

Supes, y'know I respect you man. The problem is you are presuming what others are feeling.

I don't think anybody-ANYBODY-"feels good" about a Falcons loss - ever. It is not a happy occasion. If Falcons lose the game to the dreaded Saints - I'm not going to feel good about it.

Losing this week - forget the opponent - is simply something that would likely lead to better/higher draft picks - assuming Falcons get a competant GM. Winning this week will feel good - but it is empty calories.

Respect mutual, dawg. But if you read all this ish, you'll see there are folks wanting us to lose out, opponents be dammed. Do you want to lose out for the grab-bag called the NFL draft?

I would like to see all the tankers in a room with the likes of Tommy Nobis, Claude Humphrey, Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, Jesse Tuggle, along with Matt Ryan and Roddy White (lets just say the entire current roster). I would like to see the looks on all the faces of these past and present Falcons when the tankers express their wishes for a loss to the Saints and the Panthers too, all for some hypothetical "savior" from the next draft.

The draft is important, of course. But a top 10 pick guarantees nothing. Wealths of talent can and always is found deeper down. TD has whiffed on that aspect of the draft and we all know it, as well as ignoring our glaring need for a consistent pass rush. That may be his undoing and rightfully so. But the season is still upon us and as bad as this team has been at times, there's still an incredible chance to win out, sweep the division, and squeak into the playoffs at 7-9. I remember decades of Falcons football when we couldn't even sniff the playoffs, so I'll take it if we get it!

[ATLFalcons11]

[qoute name=g-dawg" post="9032622" timestamp="1418827771]

again you are wrong on your premise but I will give you another way to think about it.

Let's say every draft pick is a lottery ticket. The #7 pick is a $10 ticket with 10 chances to win - not only can you draft a good player but you can trade for multiple picks this year and/or next year. The #21 pick has less value.

If you believe the draft is a total crapshoot, there are simply more ways to win with the higher draft pick since you can trade for more picks and/or players.

I'm not wrong at all. I never said there isn't a higher probability with a higher a draft pick. All I said was that it was an unknown.

And yes, winning COULD lead us to Trufant instead of Dee Milliner. If we had a higher draft pick in 2013, then we weren't drafting Trufant.

Just like losing COULD lead us to a good player as well.

The whole point is that it is unknown. So you're willing to fail or lose to whomever, let alone the Saints and the Panthers and lose out on the playoffs for something that you don't know about.

I understand the likelihood of us winning is very minimal and extremely unlikely but winning the South is something to strive for, sweeping the whole division for the 1st time in how long.

You also think a bad pick is always on the GM or coaches. There are many examples where the pick seems like a sure thing until it isn't. Sometimes it's just bad luck and I hate going against luck, because Lady Luck isnt so kind.

Edited December 17, 2014 by ATLFalcons11

[g-dawg]

Respect mutual, dawg. But if you read all this ish, you'll see there are folks wanting us to lose out, opponents be dammed. Do you want to lose out for the grab-bag called the NFL draft?

I would like to see all the tankers in a room with the likes of Tommy Nobis, Claude Humphrey, Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, Jesse Tuggle, along with Matt Ryan and Roddy White (lets just say the entire current roster). I would like to see the looks on all the faces of these past and present Falcons when the tankers express their wishes for a loss to the Saints and the Panthers too, all for some hypothetical "savior" from the next draft.

The draft is important, of course. But a top 10 pick guarantees nothing. Wealths of talent can and always is found deeper down. TD has whiffed on that aspect of the draft and we all know it, as well as ignoring our glaring need for a consistent pass rush. That may be his undoing and rightfully so. But the season is still upon us and as bad as this team has been at times, there's still an incredible chance to win out, sweep the division, and squeak into the playoffs at 7-9. I remember decades of Falcons football when we couldn't even sniff the playoffs, so I'll take it if we get it!

it does not matter what "tankers" think, Supes - that is a point that I believe you and freebird and others miss that get so upset about this whole discussion. it does not matter!

I believe the die has been cast on Dimitroff and Smitty - they are likely gone.

Let me put this in a context that I believe will resonate with you. The Falcons were 4-12 in 2007 and picked #3 overall. We won a coin flip with Chiefs/Raiders(I believe) to pick #3. Had we won ONE more game, we would have been picking #7 behind at least two more teams that needed a QB - KC Chiefs and NY Jets - the Raiders needed a QB they just did not know it yet (JaMarcus Russell - LOL).

What do you think the successful 2008-2012 Falcon seasons would have looked like if Matt Ryan was taking snaps for the Chiefs or Jets? We would have likely had Glen Dorsey at DT (who probably would have left team in free agency as a bust) and we would have drafted Chad Henne in 2nd round (also a bust) - how do I know that is what would have happened? because Peter King of Sports Illustrated was embedded in war room with Dimitroff/Smith in Flowery Branch and he wrote a column on it - had Baltimore traded up w/ Rams.

To say, "it does not matter" - just does not ring true.

[g-dawg]

just an FYI, this thread will be moot at 4:30pm on Sunday.

Unless Kroy Bierrman becomes Lawrence Taylor on Sunday - the Falcons are going to lose this game against the Saints and this whole argument goes away anyway. Saints offense is hot right now and they are going against the #32 defense in the NFL - we could not stop the Vikings offense. You figure it out.

Heck, right now I just hope Julio does not come back too soon and get a lingering injury that takes us into 2015 season.

[ATLFalcons11]

it does not matter what "tankers" think, Supes - that is a point that I believe you and freebird and others miss that get so upset about this whole discussion. it does not matter!

I believe the die has been cast on Dimitroff and Smitty - they are likely gone.

Let me put this in a context that I believe will resonate with you. The Falcons were 4-12 in 2007 and picked #3 overall. We won a coin flip with Chiefs/Raiders(I believe) to pick #3. Had we won ONE more game, we would have been picking #7 behind at least two more teams that needed a QB - KC Chiefs and NY Jets - the Raiders needed a QB they just did not know it yet (JaMarcus Russell - LOL).

What do you think the successful 2008-2012 Falcon seasons would have looked like if Matt Ryan was taking snaps for the Chiefs or Jets? We would have likely had Glen Dorsey at DT (who probably would have left team in free agency as a bust) and we would have drafted Chad Henne in 2nd round (also a bust) - how do I know that is what would have happened? because Peter King of Sports Illustrated was embedded in war room with Dimitroff/Smith in Flowery Branch and he wrote a column on it - had Baltimore traded up w/ Rams.

To say, "it does not matter" - just does not ring true.

I like this analogy because it actually proves the point that I was making.

You play to win the game and wherever you land is where you are meant to be. You play with integrity and I know it's not you that's playing but I hope you understand what I mean and I truly respect your opinion and your position but I just can't fathom as a player and a fan to wish for losing for something Idk know of happening.

In 2007 we played to win the game but we lost the games and we got Matt Ryan out of it. That's all that I'm saying...play to win, if you lose, then the draft pick you earn is the draft pick you get.

My whole thing is earn your draft pick by winning and playing the right way and it will lead your franchise to what it should be, not what you hope it will be.

[g-dawg]

And yes, winning COULD lead us to Trufant instead of Dee Milliner. If we had a higher draft pick in 2013, then we weren't drafting Trufant.

Just like losing COULD lead us to a good player as well.

The whole point is that it is unknown. So you're willing to fail or lose to whomever, let alone the Saints and the Panthers and lose out on the playoffs for something that you don't know about.

I understand the likelihood of us winning is very minimal and extremely unlikely but winning the South is something to strive for, sweeping the whole division for the 1st time in how long.

You also think a bad pick is always on the GM or coaches. There are many examples where the pick seems like a sure thing until it isn't. Sometimes it's just bad luck and I hate going against luck, because Lady Luck isnt so kind.

do you think the Falcons can hang a banner in the rafters at GA dome next year for sweeping the NFC South? maybe get some NFC South championship rings and have a ceremony.........

<insert PA announcer voice here>

"Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's your 7-9, bounced out of the playoffs in the first round 45-13, NFC South champion - Atlanta Falcooooooooons!!!"

I can picture it now - sold out dome for home opener in 2015 - crowd going nuts as each player walks up to get their $50,000 ring that Arthur Blank gladly pays.

[freebird310]

just an FYI, this thread will be moot at 4:30pm on Sunday.

Unless Kroy Bierrman becomes Lawrence Taylor on Sunday - the Falcons are going to lose this game against the Saints and this whole argument goes away anyway. Saints offense is hot right now and they are going against the #32 defense in the NFL - we could not stop the Vikings offense. You figure it out.

Heck, right now I just hope Julio does not come back too soon and get a lingering injury that takes us into 2015 season.

Not over till it's over ......

[ATLFalcons11]

just an FYI, this thread will be moot at 4:30pm on Sunday.

Unless Kroy Bierrman becomes Lawrence Taylor on Sunday - the Falcons are going to lose this game against the Saints and this whole argument goes away anyway. Saints offense is hot right now and they are going against the #32 defense in the NFL - we could not stop the Vikings offense. You figure it out.

Heck, right now I just hope Julio does not come back too soon and get a lingering injury that takes us into 2015 season.

Saints offense isn't "hot"....lol

They just came off of a technically 3 point game aside from a garbage TD at the end 2 games ago.

The Bears defense is about as bad as ours but they also aren't a division rival.

They just came off of a good game, yes, but HOT...nah

[g-dawg]

I like this analogy because it actually proves the point that I was making.

You play to win the game and wherever you land is where you are meant to be. You play with integrity and I know it's not you that's playing but I hope you understand what I mean and I truly respect your opinion and your position but I just can't fathom as a player and a fan to wish for losing for something Idk know of happening.

In 2007 we played to win the game but we lost the games and we got Matt Ryan out of it. That's all that I'm saying...play to win, if you lose, then the draft pick you earn is the draft pick you get.

My whole thing is earn your draft pick by winning and playing the right way and it will lead your franchise to what it should be, not what you hope it will be.

No player ever plays to LOSE a game - unless they are being paid by the mafia or sports gamblers

No owner LIKES losing a game.

For a FAN - to get upset at another FAN - who has a different viewpoint on something they have NO CONTROL over anyway - seems pointless.

I think the FANS that wanted COLTS to lose their last few games three years ago feel vindicated - SUCK FOR LUCK - as they have been in the playoffs every year since. Caveat: getting the franchise QB is a different and elevated thing - and we have ours already.

[ATLFalcons11]

do you think the Falcons can hang a banner in the rafters at GA dome next year for sweeping the NFC South? maybe get some NFC South championship rings and have a ceremony.........

<insert PA announcer voice here>

"Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's your 7-9, bounced out of the playoffs in the first round 45-13, NFC South champion - Atlanta Falcooooooooons!!!"

I can picture it now - sold out dome - crowd going nuts as each player walks up to get their $50,000 ring that Arthur Blank gladly pays.

Projectors be projecting....lol

[Supes™]

it does not matter what "tankers" think, Supes - that is a point that I believe you and freebird and others miss that get so upset about this whole discussion. it does not matter!

I believe the die has been cast on Dimitroff and Smitty - they are likely gone.

Let me put this in a context that I believe will resonate with you. The Falcons were 4-12 in 2007 and picked #3 overall. We won a coin flip with Chiefs/Raiders(I believe) to pick #3. Had we won ONE more game, we would have been picking #7 behind at least two more teams that needed a QB - KC Chiefs and NY Jets - the Raiders needed a QB they just did not know it yet (JaMarcus Russell - LOL).

What do you think the successful 2008-2012 Falcon seasons would have looked like if Matt Ryan was taking snaps for the Chiefs or Jets? We would have likely had Glen Dorsey at DT (who probably would have left team in free agency as a bust) and we would have drafted Chad Henne in 2nd round (also a bust) - how do I know that is what would have happened? because Peter King of Sports Illustrated was embedded in war room with Dimitroff/Smith in Flowery Branch and he wrote a column on it - had Baltimore traded up w/ Rams.

To say, "it does not matter" - just does not ring true.

Of course it matters, but where the chips fall in the draft is beyond our control. As fate had it, we got #2 and were lucky for that. It was a no-brainer but you know what? I wanted Dorsey! And you wanted to trade up for Clowney in the last draft. He's played in 4 games all season for the Texans and may never pan out, who knows? The draft is a crap shoot. Ask the Texans and the Skins (RG3).

I wanna win. Can we win out? Absolutely, we can. We sure can.

[ATLFalcons11]

No player ever plays to LOSE a game - unless they are being paid by the mafia or sports gamblers

No owner LIKES losing a game.

For a FAN - to get upset at another FAN - who has a different viewpoint on something they have NO CONTROL over anyway - seems pointless.

I think the FANS that wanted COLTS to lose their last few games three years ago feel vindicated - SUCK FOR LUCK - as they have been in the playoffs every year since. Caveat: getting the franchise QB is a different and elevated thing - and we have ours already.

Well I said in the same quoted post that I respect and understand your opinion but maybe u were talking about others.

Yea a QB is more elevated and a different approach and it has worked and that's the thing I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying it's an unknown.

I will approach it a different way. It can work if you win out OR it can work if you lose out. When choosing which option since it is a crapshoot, then I rather win out.

What if Luck sucked? What if RG3 was better? I will also that the Colts didn't have playoffs as an option either so it helps because I understand both viewpoints, I wpuld just never play or watch to lose.

Edited December 17, 2014 by ATLFalcons11

[HOYLE]

It was considered essential for us to trade up and

get Clowney by numerous people on these boards.

Mathews fell in our laps where we were and we are

far better off and still had our draft picks thatwe would

have gladly given up for this massively talented player.

Did Houston make the right pick? Sure they did.

Did it work out? No.

[g-dawg]

It was considered essential for us to trade up and

get Clowney by numerous people on these boards.

Mathews fell in our laps where we were and we are

far better off and still had our draft picks thatwe would

have gladly given up for this massively talented player.

Did Houston make the right pick? Sure they did.

Did it work out? No.

i think it is a little premature to throw dirt on Clowney before he even really takes the field. I will be the first to admit that I wanted Clowney and will be the first to admit that he does not look as promising now as he did a year ago - simply because of the health issue.

just think you guys are basically calling Clowney a bust now - slow your roll a little - I know the whole "micro-fracture" surgery on the knee sounds scary.

also, we picked 7th when we took Jake instead of Clowney - not 21st.

[g-dawg]

Well I said in the same quoted post that I respect and understand your opinion but maybe u were talking about others.

Yea a QB is more elevated and a different approach and it has worked and that's the thing I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying it's an unknown.

I will approach it a different way. It can work if you win out OR it can work if you lose out. When choosing which option since it is a crapshoot, then I rather win out.

What if Luck sucked? What if RG3 was better? I will also that the Colts didn't have playoffs as an option either so it helps because I understand both viewpoints, I wpuld just never play or watch to lose.

Well I said in the same quoted post that I respect and understand your opinion but maybe u were talking about others.

Yea a QB is more elevated and a different approach and it has worked and that's the thing I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying it's an unknown.

I will approach it a different way. It can work if you win out OR it can work if you lose out. When choosing which option since it is a crapshoot, then I rather win out.

What if Luck sucked? What if RG3 was better? I will also that the Colts didn't have playoffs as an option either so it helps because I understand both viewpoints, I wpuld just never play or watch to lose.

I bet the COLTS NATION were glued to their seats praying for a loss in week#17 last year. LOL.

btw, no intelligent scout thought RGIII was better than LUCK.

[HOYLE]

i think it is a little premature to throw dirt on Clowney before he even really takes the field. I will be the first to admit that I wanted Clowney and will be the first to admit that he does not look as promising now as he did a year ago - simply because of the health issue.

just think you guys are basically calling Clowney a bust now - slow your roll a little - I know the whole "micro-fracture" surgery on the knee sounds scary.

also, we picked 7th when we took Jake instead of Clowney - not 21st.

Go to last year's 21 and see if you can make a good pick from the players

available. I know you can!

I do know that Clowney did not help Houston

this year. That much we all know. I can't imagine

him not coming back. It is wait and see for them.

Edited December 17, 2014 by HOYLE

[freebird310]

Let me ask you this Dawg .....what if we get a top 10 pick this year but do not even sniff the playoffs for the next 5 years ? Is it worth it then that we did not take our shot in 2014 ? Jags been drafting in the top 10 forever......

[ATLFalcons11]

I bet the COLTS NATION were glued to their seats praying for a loss in week#17 last year. LOL.

btw, no intelligent scout thought RGIII was better than LUCK.

I never said they did. I said what if. But you're calling on an example of the most sure thing other than Dan Marino EVER in the draft, possibly even more than Dan Marino.

Can you name other examples of an actually calling to tank working out? Is this the only one? If it is, then that sounds like an anomaly but even saying that it can absolutely work out both ways. I'd rather win and watch it all work out instead of lose and work out.

[ATLFalcons11]

Let me ask you this Dawg .....what if we get a top 10 pick this year but do not even sniff the playoffs for the next 5 years ? Is it worth it then that we did not take our shot in 2014 ? Jags been drafting in the top 10 forever......

This is exactly why I said

What if Luck sucked?

What if RG3 ended up being HOF?

What did wanting to tank solve then? Using one example of it working isn't enticing. The non tankers have been on the same line of thinking that all of this is an unknown. Higher probability with a higher draft pick....yea I will give the tankers that but it is still an unknown.

So let's look at it like this.

We have a chance to win and get in the playoffs where anything can happen.

Both sides want a Lombardi.

We get in and we dont win but gave ourselves a chance to do so.

Tankers say a top 10 pick will solve that issue but like you said above....what if it doesn't? What if a new GM or the old one comes in a bombs it? What if the new or old GM comes in and makes the right decision on the pick but the player just doesn't pan out OR the player is good but not good enough to put us over the hump or even make a dent in contributions?

What now? Now we just wasted a potential opportunity, although small, to win a Lombardi and now we haven't made the playoffs in the last however many years.

Now everything I just said can be flipped around for your side of the argument and I would agree with you.

My point is which is better winning out and getting a good or bad draft pick OR losing out and getting a good or bad draft pick?

Edited December 17, 2014 by ATLFalcons11

[freebird310]

Exactly. To think about passing up a shot at the show for a higher pick is just stupid. . Of course if we lose to NOLA it is all moot, but I will still be rooting to beat the Pantys week 17 just like Washington last year LOL .

[g-dawg]

Let me ask you this Dawg .....what if we get a top 10 pick this year but do not even sniff the playoffs for the next 5 years ? Is it worth it then that we did not take our shot in 2014 ? Jags been drafting in the top 10 forever......

hypothetical question you pose that has nothing to do with anything.

Jags don't have a QB.

[g-dawg]

Exactly. To think about passing up a shot at the show for a higher pick is just stupid. . Of course if we lose to NOLA it is all moot, but I will still be rooting to beat the Pantys week 17 just like Washington last year LOL .

NEWSFLASH:

What you are rooting for has no bearing on the outcome.

[freebird310]

NEWSFLASH:

What you are rooting for has no bearing on the outcome.

Never said it did ......

[freebird310]

hypothetical question you pose that has nothing to do with anything.

Jags don't have a QB.

Well the chit you are talking is all hypothetical as well, pot meet kettle ......