If Rbs Cant Be Taken In The 1St, Why Can Wrs?

[Guest Negatorris]

This is a legitimate question. I see a lot of people saying how crazy it is to take a RB in the first but also say the Julio trade was worth it? More WRs enter each draft than probably any position in football. A dynamic RB can do way more for an offense than a WR can.

What did Michael Turner(in his first few years), who we got for cheap imo, do for our offense and our entire team? Turner made our offense physical and wore down opposing defenses with ease. No WR can wear down entire offenses. Turner also helped Ryan transition to the NFL and progress as a QB tremendously. One could easily argue that a great RB does way more for a QB than a WR.

Now on the flip side. Julio Jones. We traded our SOULS for this guy and has he had the same impact on our offense as Turner did? If you say yes, then you must have started watching the Falcons in 2011.

Now look, I understand Julio has all pro potential, but the production required to justify giving up as much as we did is impossible which makes the trade enormously idiotic.

Also you will never have to expect breaking the bank on a RB, even if his production suggests you should. A WR that averages 1200 yards and 10 TDs will on average cost more than a RB that averages 1500 total yards and 15 TDs.

Finally to further prove my argument, of the top 5 receivers in yards this year, only 1 was a first rounder. Of the top 5 receivers in TDs this year, only 1 was a first rounder.

I'm just saying if a WR can be taken in the first round without a second thought, a potential game changer should be able to be taken without a doubt either.. And yes this a bid to draft either Gurley or Gordon. And I don't want to hear about Gurley's injuries since we still drafted the glass man Julio Jones at the cost of five draft picks.

[NCFalconfan]

I for one, don't believe in drafting WR's or RB's in the early rounds. Build the offensive and defensive lines and get the RB's and WR's in the later rounds or free agency is my belief.

[Guest facelessman07]

Yup, the whole argument that "RB's shouldn't be drafted in the 1st" is flawed. It doesn't really matter what position it is, outside of a punter or kicker, if the talent is there it justifies using a high pick. I just think the sting from the RB's who have been drafted in the first over the past few years and not produced has some weary of the thought

Many people point to Forte, Murray, or Charles, yet Gurley, before the injury, was light years ahead of them coming out of college

Very well thought-out post

Edited November 21, 2014 by facelessman07

[jakepb96]

Mainly because RB talent is deep on a yearly basis. Starters can be found in the 3rd round and after.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Because they're more valuable in nearly every respect.

[hjerry]

So ignoring all of the unneeded references to the Julio trade, since, holy **** we don't need another thread on that, I can answer this quite simply.

It's about the devaluation of RBs.

Now, you may say that RBs can have as much or more impact than a great WR. Well, I don't really disagree with you, but the attitude has been shifting away from that mentality for some time, which is why you hear this so often from fans. Take the draft as a prime example. We've had two straight years without a RB in the 1st. Meanwhile, the the RBs taken in 2012, Richardson, Martin, and Wilson, have all either already been shipped out by their teams, or soon will be. It wouldn't be unfair at all to call all of them busts, based on their draft status. The last, somewhat successful RB taken in the 1st, was Ingram, and, until just recently, he was easily a bust too. You have to go back to 2010 to even find a RB that went to a pro bowl, and didn't fall immediately off the hill.

Wow, it's even worse than I thought. As I was typing this, I've been trying to find a consistently good RB, taken in the 1st, and have been having terrible luck. Here are the RBs taken in the 1st, in the last 10 drafts.

2014: None

2013:None

2012: Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson

2011:Mark Ingram

2010:C.J. Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Jahvid Best

2009: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells

2008:Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson

2007: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch,

2006: Reggie Bush, Laurence Maroney, Deangelo Williams, Joseph Addai\

2005: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams,

So you see, there's not much in the last five years, to inspire confidence in taking a RB in the 1st. In fact, most often, recently, the RBs to make it to the probowl, have been non 1st rounders (Lacy, Morris, Murray, McCluster, McCoy, Forte, Rice, Charles) . Then, when you combine that with all of the rule changes, made to make it easier for receivers to make catches, none of the negativity should be surprising.

Again, I don't disagree with you, that a RB can help considerably, but the response shouldn't be surprising.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Yup, the whole argument that "RB's shouldn't be drafted in the 1st" is flawed. It doesn't really matter what position it is, outside of a punter or kicker, if the talent is there it justifies using a high pick. I just think the sting from the RB's who have been drafted in the first over the past few years and not produced has some weary of the thought

Many people point to Forte, Murray, or Charles, yet Gurley, before the injury, was light years ahead of them coming out of college

Very well thought-out post

Those same people will point at LeVeon Bell and McCoy and Rice and Foster and Morris and....etc. "Coming out of college" doesnt really do much when the last two "elite RB prospects" have been total failures in the league. And thats not counting the other dozen or so disappointing 1st round backs.

[Guest facelessman07]

Those same people will point at LeVeon Bell and McCoy and Rice and Foster and Morris and....etc. "Coming out of college" doesnt really do much when the last two "elite RB prospects" have been total failures in the league. And thats not counting the other dozen or so disappointing 1st round backs.

Talent level should determine draft position. That applies to virtually all players, including RB

How many other players have not lived up to their 1st round status? Several. Draft is a gamble regardless of who you choose, but you base your picks off the individual players, not their peers

Edited November 21, 2014 by facelessman07

[hjerry]

Talent level should determine draft position. That applies to virtually all players, including RB

How many other players have not lived up to their 1st round status? Draft is a gamble, but you base your picks off the individual players, not their peers

It's becoming more and more common for the RBs to attend the pro bowl, to be non 1st rounders. I didn't realize how skewed it was getting until I started looking up the numbers. It's somewhat true for WRs, but less so.

[Knight of God]

There hasn't been much clear cut first round talent at RB in a while, but you can still do it and some teams will do it. Talent pool watered down and this has happened with TE's before.

[Guest facelessman07]

It's becoming more and more common for the RBs to attend the pro bowl, to be non 1st rounders. I didn't realize how skewed it was getting until I started looking up the numbers. It's somewhat true for WRs, but less so.

That may be true but refusing to pick a RB in the first based solely off the fact that others aren't picked there is a flawed strategy imo

Also, one reason for the lack of 1st round RB's in the Pro Bowl is the fact that many of the RB's drafted the past couple years have not been worthy of a high pick. That doesn't mean that someone won't come along who won't be deserving of that

[DonDaLuvMaker]

One thing about Turner that made him really good was that he could continuously absorb punishment and dish it out on defenders, which also made many defenders shy away from trying tackle him.

Not many RBs can bang with defenders like Turner did as a bell-cow RB and hold up for as long as he did, or even make it through a season.

AP and Lynch are the only RBs right now that I think fit that mold.

[Knight of God]

That may be true but refusing to pick a RB in the first based solely off the fact that others aren't picked there is a flawed strategy imo

Also, one reason for the lack of 1st round RB's in the Pro Bowl is the fact that many of the RB's drafted the past couple years have not been worthy of a high pick. That doesn't mean that someone won't come along who won't be deserving of that

You NEVER strategize your draft basing it 100% on position. That's foolish. There will be some heroes coming out at RB whether these guys like it or not. The reason? Its showing as a serious necessity. By the standard these guys are talking we need a guy in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd anyways. STILL...they are not paying attention and putting 1st round against the rest of the rounds is ridiculous. Your best chance with any position is first. Most of the guys on the above list were badly banged up by the time they came in. They were injury busts all...

[Guest Negatorris]

Yeah there have been some 1st rd RB fails as you've listed but coming out of college Richardson, Martin, Wilson, nor Ingram looked nearly as talented as the top RBs this year. I have seen many analysts and reporters state this upcoming draft could legitimately have multiple backs taken in the first. Everything about these guys about to come out of college just feels different from the past failures.

Also I might as well list 1st rd WRs who haven't quite panned out either so far...

2014: Not gonna list any since they're rookies.

2013: Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson

2012: Justin Blackmon(suspended), AJ Jenkins

2011: Jonathan Baldwin

2010: None, great receiver class in 1st(Bryant/Thomas)

2009: Darius Heyward-Bey, Percy Harvin(great talent but can't stay on the field or behave), Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt

2008: No WRs taken

2007: Ted Ginn Jr, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez

2006: Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss

2005: Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton(Roddy was taken after ALL of these guys lol)

For the record, I'm not calling the guys above busts, but they definitely did not produce or develop like the team would expect from their 1st pick. It can happen to WRs same like RBs, and QBs, and OTs, and DEs, etc...

Gurley and Gordon are talents that would shock probably every draft analyst if they failed in the pro league. They are way better than the most recent 1st round RBs, and I think they deserve to be taken in the first round.

[trubirdfan4life]

I see it as more of a function of need...the league has geared its rules to favor the passing game. That alone has devalued the rb in the draft process. Rbs still have team value though. Rbs have a shorter shelf life, even though the average carries per back has decreased. If a team need is for a back, trust me, they will pick a back.

The college game is so much qb running and spread offense, that also have lowered the draft stock of rbs. Guys these days are just as talented, just not as valued

[Dem Birds]

Its a passing league. Period.

[Knight of God]

I see it as more of a function of need...the league has geared its rules to favor the passing game. That alone has devalued the rb in the draft process. Rbs still have team value though. Rbs have a shorter shelf life, even though the average carries per back has decreased. If a team need is for a back, trust me, they will pick a back.

The college game is so much qb running and spread offense, that also have lowered the draft stock of rbs. Guys these days are just as talented, just not as valued

Every scout I know would tell you that is nonsense. All of the guys who didn't pan out were beaten to crap. The ones who did pan in later rounds were surprises. Had durability concerns, questions of being system guys, or were just plain busts and that's like one or two...and those were based on system.

EDIT: Most of those surprise late round guys had a good RB in front of him already and was taken as contingency. Richardson (pure fail based on system) screwed it up for Lacey.

[Romfal]

Just look at Dallas, they took O-linemen in the first round for the past several years, and with the best O-line in football, they set a new record of consecutive 100 yard games to start the season. I'm not taking anything away from Murray, he is an above average back, but I think almost any starting RB in the NFL could run behind that unit and do it effectively.

If the talent is there at the RB position I think you should consider taking it, but overall, in the scheme of things, if you are presented with an equally talented RB and any other position on offense or defense, I think you pass on the RB. If the situation occurs where, this RB is so much better than pretty much anyone on the board right now, you would be a fool to pass it if he fills a need.

[Knight of God]

Just look at Dallas, they took O-linemen in the first round for the past several years, and with the best O-line in football, they set a new record of consecutive 100 yard games to start the season. I'm not taking anything away from Murray, he is an above average back, but I think almost any starting RB in the NFL could run behind that unit and do it effectively.

If the talent is there at the RB position I think you should consider taking it, but overall, in the scheme of things, if you are presented with an equally talented RB and any other position on offense or defense, I think you pass on the RB. If the situation occurs where, this RB is so much better than pretty much anyone on the board right now, you would be a fool to pass it if he fills a need.

We should be better by now how many OL did we take in the first 3?

[TrufantIsland]

Because it's a passing league - with that being said. I would only draft a WR, if my team was in great need of one - or if a special talent (Like Julio) were on the board.

[trubirdfan4life]

Every scout I know would tell you that is nonsense. All of the guys who didn't pan out were beaten to crap. The ones who did pan in later rounds were surprises. Had durability concerns, questions of being system guys, or were just plain busts and that's like one or two...and those were based on system.

EDIT: Most of those surprise late round guys had a good RB in front of him already and was taken as contingency. Richardson (pure fail based on system) screwed it up for Lacey.

the question was about 1st round wr vs. Rb...nothing was mentioned about late round draft picks....2nd and 3rd aren't late rounds and that's where most rbs go nowadays. The issue of backs being beat up rarely even come into effect. Rarely. What exactly would your scout friend call nonsense? Because none of the points you made even remotely pertain to the points that I made

[Romfal]

We should be better by now how many OL did we take in the first 3?

we could draft 2 every year, if they are busts we end up playing with UDFA's anyway

[Jigglypuff]

If no other team is going to draft a RB in the first round, why not wait until the 2nd round too? Seems like you're talking about "reaching" even if you think the RB is a good pick regardless of the round, no point in drafting way before any other team was going to.

[wleggett]

For the right running back I would have no issue taking them in the 1st because if they can catch out of the backfield and have the ability to make guys miss in the open field what's the issue. Just for argument sake since his name has been thrown around so much, let's say we have Gurley and he does play like he's done in college. You get him matched up with a linebacker in the flat would Matt not be licking his chops at that? People have pointed out it's a passing league so you if you draft a guy that can run between the tackles and be a threat out of the backfield on passes it's a win win possibly worthy of a 1st round pick.

[DirtyBird757]

That may be true but refusing to pick a RB in the first based solely off the fact that others aren't picked there is a flawed strategy imo

Also, one reason for the lack of 1st round RB's in the Pro Bowl is the fact that many of the RB's drafted the past couple years have not been worthy of a high pick. That doesn't mean that someone won't come along who won't be deserving of that