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Dirk Koetter


direwolf
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So, this is the offense I think Dirk Koetter has been dreaming of running. He's got a surgeon at quarterback, two amazing starting receivers, strong enough depth to run four-receiver sets without having much dropoff from three to four (if any, based on what Hester did today), and he's got a stable of FOUR backs who can make things happen on the ground. Factor in that three of those backs are above-average receivers and it plays even more into his hands.

Add in that they clearly see Toilolo as a viable receiver (though certainly not a featured one) and it adds yet another dimension.

I'm guessing we'll see that 11 package they ran quite a lot today as our base offense and I bet we'll be seeing a LOT of Ryan in the Pistol. Gave him that extra split second against the rush, yet didn't take anything away from the running game.

Man, I'm really excited to see what this offense will do assuming we stay healthy. Sure would be nice to have our QB get MVP consideration this year!

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Correct! Another reason I was glad to see Tony G finally retire.

I think Toilolo can do the things we've asked Tony to do the last two years. His hands aren't like Tony's, but he can find open areas and be viable in the red zone. What the 4 wide sets give us are down the field playmakers.

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we talked about that today as well. when we were 4 wide, they didn't have an answer. This is what I've expected to see ever since the JJ draft. Double who you want, we have other choices.........

I'll say this too, I've been one of the worst to dog out HD, so for todays game I'll eat my crow, HD played a good game today. He missed a key block on one of the JJ catches, but catching the ball he was solid all game

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I never got the hate for Koetter on these boards. It's like no one could get past him being Jacksonville's coordinator for the worst offense in the league, even though our players are so much better than theirs, especially under center.

Dude is a good coach. He ain't perfect, but he's more than good enough to win a Super Bowl if the players do their part. Now we need a pass rush. That's the missing link.

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Had to listen to the game today while working on a project.

I've never heard the play by play guy say: " Ryan steps up in the pocket" so many times in one game. Even after Matthews went down. This offense is gonna be fun to watch.

D has room to easily improve- eliminate some of the communication breakdowns, rookies get some game experience. This could be a very good team in Dec and Jan.

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If what happened after the 1st qtr is what Dirk had in his head the whole time I was wrong about him and I will eat my crow. I was beginning to lose all faith in him. What I saw today was downright scary offensively. We were moving the ball at will when there were no penalties. I imagine Smitty will get the penalties worked out, and thinking what the offense would like + those 90ish yards is amazing. If we can keep this up, this is going to be a fun year. Well at least offensively. They simply must fix the defense. It needs help, and I really think the only we'll get that help is to make a trade for someone. Like go out and really try for Houston or someone like that. If we could get a legit pass rush we are a super bowl team if we can keep this up.

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If what happened after the 1st qtr is what Dirk had in his head the whole time I was wrong about him and I will eat my crow. I was beginning to lose all faith in him. What I saw today was downright scary offensively. We were moving the ball at will when there were no penalties. I imagine Smitty will get the penalties worked out, and thinking what the offense would like + those 90ish yards is amazing. If we can keep this up, this is going to be a fun year. Well at least offensively. They simply must fix the defense. It needs help, and I really think the only we'll get that help is to make a trade for someone. Like go out and really try for Houston or someone like that. If we could get a legit pass rush we are a super bowl team if we can keep this up.

Kc lost a couple of starters today- if their season tanks, they might think about a Houston trade.

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Kc lost a couple of starters today- if their season tanks, they might think about a Houston trade.

What I was thinking too. Before I wasn't sure what the team would look like and I didn't want to risk draft picks if it wasn't going to help right this moment. From what I saw today, we could be deadly with an actual pass rush. Gives me chills thinking about it.

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The thing about Koetter that most folks just flat missed is he basically runs a Coryell type offense, and he credits Dan Henning with a lot of his offense's development. That's too simplistic -- Koetter isn't running the same offense Henning or Norv Turner or a lot of other guys run, but that's like saying Kubiak isn't a strict WCO guy because he throws a lot of deep balls and runs the ball a lot. It's still basically a WCO, and Koetter's offense is still conceptually what Henning ran, which is a Coryell offense. It's a great fit for Ryan because it still uses timing routes, which is what he was used to running the WCO in college.

The problem with this offense is a lot like the problems with any other offense. When we don't have protection, things close down and we have to keep men in to pass protect or help run block, and we end up looking very conservative and vanilla. Fewer routes, more screens (which get blown up if your line can't block), and the run becomes more predictable since the o-line can't get any push. When we do have protection, and a full compliment of weapons, he starts to look less like Dan Henning's offenses with the Falcons or Panthers or Dolphins (minus the wildcat, obviously, which we don't run) and more like another Coryell disciple, Mike Martz. Koetter is much more like Martz in his preferences. Not identical, but similar. He likes to leave 5 in to protect, leak out the backs, throw screens, and stretch the field horizontally and vertically with concepts such as the 4-verticals everyone talks about. You just can't do that when your o-line is getting blown up every play and both of your starting WRs are hobbled, and your RBs can't get out of their own backfield. What he wants is a pass heavy system where we run to keep balance and the RBs are heavily involved in the passing game not only on screens and check downs, but also in the deep game (think of the wheel route Ryan threw to Quizz in 2012). The running game will be there -- Faulk ran all over the place in St. Louis -- but there will be a lot of passes thrown to the backs. Wide receivers are covering a lot of ground to stretch the defense. A lot of 3-wide and 4-wide formations with RBs or TEs motioning out wide. A lot of deep routes called, and most called passing plays will be intermediate to longer routes as long as the protection holds up and the receivers get open.

I'm not saying Koetter is as good as Martz (or as bad, depending on your point of view). But his offense is going to have the same strengths and weaknesses. You have to have a really good o-line because he likes to spread things out and you'll get your QB killed keeping 5 in for protection when none of the 5 can block. Pass/run balance tends to favor the pass. You run the risk of losing the TOP battle if you get a lot of 3 and outs, something that is easy to do in an offense like this.

But man, when it works……and it sure worked today.

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The thing about Koetter that most folks just flat missed is he basically runs a Coryell type offense, and he credits Dan Henning with a lot of his offense's development. That's too simplistic -- Koetter isn't running the same offense Henning or Norv Turner or a lot of other guys run, but that's like saying Kubiak isn't a strict WCO guy because he throws a lot of deep balls and runs the ball a lot. It's still basically a WCO, and Koetter's offense is still conceptually what Henning ran, which is a Coryell offense. It's a great fit for Ryan because it still uses timing routes, which is what he was used to running the WCO in college.

The problem with this offense is a lot like the problems with any other offense. When we don't have protection, things close down and we have to keep men in to pass protect or help run block, and we end up looking very conservative and vanilla. Fewer routes, more screens (which get blown up if your line can't block), and the run becomes more predictable since the o-line can't get any push. When we do have protection, and a full compliment of weapons, he starts to look less like Dan Henning's offenses with the Falcons or Panthers or Dolphins (minus the wildcat, obviously, which we don't run) and more like another Coryell disciple, Mike Martz. Koetter is much more like Martz in his preferences. Not identical, but similar. He likes to leave 5 in to protect, leak out the backs, throw screens, and stretch the field horizontally and vertically with concepts such as the 4-verticals everyone talks about. You just can't do that when your o-line is getting blown up every play and both of your starting WRs are hobbled, and your RBs can't get out of their own backfield. What he wants is a pass heavy system where we run to keep balance and the RBs are heavily involved in the passing game not only on screens and check downs, but also in the deep game (think of the wheel route Ryan threw to Quizz in 2012). The running game will be there -- Faulk ran all over the place in St. Louis -- but there will be a lot of passes thrown to the backs. Wide receivers are covering a lot of ground to stretch the defense. A lot of 3-wide and 4-wide formations with RBs or TEs motioning out wide. A lot of deep routes called, and most called passing plays will be intermediate to longer routes as long as the protection holds up and the receivers get open.

I'm not saying Koetter is as good as Martz (or as bad, depending on your point of view). But his offense is going to have the same strengths and weaknesses. You have to have a really good o-line because he likes to spread things out and you'll get your QB killed keeping 5 in for protection when none of the 5 can block. Pass/run balance tends to favor the pass. You run the risk of losing the TOP battle if you get a lot of 3 and outs, something that is easy to do in an offense like this.

But man, when it works……and it sure worked today.

I think I can TL:DR this for you a bit.

To successfully run the 4-verticals offense that Koetter likes, it is extremely, extremely imperative that you have to be able to pass protect regularly with only your 5 offensive linemen. Not every single play, of course; but on the majority of them, you simply have to.

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I think I can TL:DR this for you a bit.

To successfully run the 4-verticals offense that Koetter likes, it is extremely, extremely imperative that you have to be able to pass protect regularly with only your 5 offensive linemen. Not every single play, of course; but on the majority of them, you simply have to.

That's the bulk of it, yes. And if you can't pass protect with 5, you have to go to something that leaves you fewer options, which looks "vanilla" to people who don't understand why the offensive playbook isn't more dynamic. It ain't the playbook, it's the players.

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The thing about Koetter that most folks just flat missed is he basically runs a Coryell type offense, and he credits Dan Henning with a lot of his offense's development. That's too simplistic -- Koetter isn't running the same offense Henning or Norv Turner or a lot of other guys run, but that's like saying Kubiak isn't a strict WCO guy because he throws a lot of deep balls and runs the ball a lot. It's still basically a WCO, and Koetter's offense is still conceptually what Henning ran, which is a Coryell offense. It's a great fit for Ryan because it still uses timing routes, which is what he was used to running the WCO in college.

The problem with this offense is a lot like the problems with any other offense. When we don't have protection, things close down and we have to keep men in to pass protect or help run block, and we end up looking very conservative and vanilla. Fewer routes, more screens (which get blown up if your line can't block), and the run becomes more predictable since the o-line can't get any push. When we do have protection, and a full compliment of weapons, he starts to look less like Dan Henning's offenses with the Falcons or Panthers or Dolphins (minus the wildcat, obviously, which we don't run) and more like another Coryell disciple, Mike Martz. Koetter is much more like Martz in his preferences. Not identical, but similar. He likes to leave 5 in to protect, leak out the backs, throw screens, and stretch the field horizontally and vertically with concepts such as the 4-verticals everyone talks about. You just can't do that when your o-line is getting blown up every play and both of your starting WRs are hobbled, and your RBs can't get out of their own backfield. What he wants is a pass heavy system where we run to keep balance and the RBs are heavily involved in the passing game not only on screens and check downs, but also in the deep game (think of the wheel route Ryan threw to Quizz in 2012). The running game will be there -- Faulk ran all over the place in St. Louis -- but there will be a lot of passes thrown to the backs. Wide receivers are covering a lot of ground to stretch the defense. A lot of 3-wide and 4-wide formations with RBs or TEs motioning out wide. A lot of deep routes called, and most called passing plays will be intermediate to longer routes as long as the protection holds up and the receivers get open.

I'm not saying Koetter is as good as Martz (or as bad, depending on your point of view). But his offense is going to have the same strengths and weaknesses. You have to have a really good o-line because he likes to spread things out and you'll get your QB killed keeping 5 in for protection when none of the 5 can block. Pass/run balance tends to favor the pass. You run the risk of losing the TOP battle if you get a lot of 3 and outs, something that is easy to do in an offense like this.

But man, when it works……and it sure worked today.

This is beautiful.Teared up a little bit while reading it even though I only fully understand half of it.
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That's the bulk of it, yes. And if you can't pass protect with 5, you have to go to something that leaves you fewer options, which looks "vanilla" to people who don't understand why the offensive playbook isn't more dynamic. It ain't the playbook, it's the players.

Preach, brother!

NFL offenses - all 32 of them - run 80% of the same, basic plays. The other 20% are niche plays that work to a teams particular strengths. And if you can't execute at every position, you'll see your playbook shrink down to less than half its normal size and things start looking vanilla.

The folks who don't understand that tend to be the ones calling for heads.

.

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I think I can TL:DR this for you a bit.

To successfully run the 4-verticals offense that Koetter likes, it is extremely, extremely imperative that you have to be able to pass protect regularly with only your 5 offensive linemen. Not every single play, of course; but on the majority of them, you simply have to.

I think I can TL:DR this for you a bit.

Protect passer, complete passes.

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I think I can TL:DR this for you a bit.

Protect passer, complete passes.

Except that misses the point that in the 4 verticals offense it's more important to accomplish this task with only your 5 O Linemen, than in other offensive schemes where TEs, RBs, and FBs are free to chip in on pass protection schemes much more frequently.
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