What Happened To The Crucify Hd83 Folks....?

[ru_serious]

No shiit. Nobody is saying he is better than White or Ryan. Pay attention.

Well actually somebody was asking why Ryan and White weren't given as hard a time when they make mistakes. "truthhurts" quoted my response to that with his retort.

[Truth.]

there's absolutely nothing unrealistic in expecting him not to get close to the same numbers again as the 3rd or 4th option most of the time instead of being the number one option. I don't in the least think that I'm the one being unrealistic at all.

I fully expect that this year for him might have just slightly better numbers than his years other than last year. Simply because we're not going to run the same type offense we ran with Tony, so harry will get a few more targets, but his will most likely be in line with the average 3rd WR around the league. now tell me that's unrealistic, and prove you're the one who's unrealistic

as for my emotions, tell me you didn't get upset when he tipped a couple passes off to the defense? tell me you didn't get upset when he tripped over NOTHING on what was most likely a TD? and for the record, I yelled at the tv when Roddy tripped too......

I didnt say you had unrealistic expectations. I actually expect him to have a season that is similar to the one he had last year. He will get the targets.

I said your argument was unrealistic because you dont give DB's any credit. He earned his catches last season. He earned every yard, just like everybody else. You cant just take them away from him. He eared them and everyone else had a chance to do the same if they were that much better than him. He played in an offense that gave him targets, but also had a brutal line. He had to get open quick to get the ball, and he did just that. Give him his credit. Other WRs had the opportunity to outproduce him but they couldnt.

EDIT: As for the emotions, yes obviously it is annoying, but that doesnt the way I evaluate players.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Truth.

[Lornoth]

"You stick over half the WR's in the league that aren't complete scrubs in the same situation they wouldn't have done much worse, if worse at all."

That is so far from the truth it is insane.

and the point with Smith, Wright, Cruz, and Johnson is that they had down years. Douglas has had one season with real targets. If those guys can have low TD numbers and still be considered TD threats in the Not For Long league, then we need to give Douglas more than one season with legitimate targets before you can label him.

And about your issues with him tripping, you seem to be letting you emotions get the best of you. He tripped in a big spot (and so did Roddy, but people like to ignore that...)...but it happened and everyone moved on except fans that cant handle it emotionally. The man can obviously play football and produce among the best in the league. One play doesnt change anything for Roddy, so it doesnt change it for Harry. Use your head, not your heart.

As far as his fumbles, he has some of the best rated hands in the NFC, he has 3 total career fumbles, Roddy has 11 including 2 last season in limited snaps, Julio has 3 in 3 games and had 2 in 5 games last year. If Douglas has fumbling issues, then so do Roddy and Julio.

As far as things he does above average, he catches many more passes than average. 14th in the NFL. That means he is better than half the #1 STARTERS in the league at catching the ball. He was ranked 20th in yards. That also ranks him very highly. You are basically held up on TDs and some non-existent fumbles. How many TD's would he need to score to become a "threat"? 5? If you actually dismiss a player based on 3 plays over the course of a season, then you would be an awful GM.

It's not just one play, are you kidding? He bobbled away 14 points last season alone, and that's not counting the swing of points we could have scored if we kept the ball. You seem the one getting emotional, you argue you can't compare him to others because he doesn't get the same touches, but then point to Roddy and say he has X fumbles so you have to include him too? Roddy has like twenty times the touches in his career HD does, obviously he'll have more fumbles.

And those players you pointed out didn't have down years besides Johnson, and he has proven he can do it all. Heck even his 'down' year he set the single season receiving record. Comparing HD to any of those guys just makes your entire argument seem silly mate.

And no, regarding your first line, it is not far from the truth. HD isn't some amazing third option, i'd wager over half the 3'rd receiving options in the league and probably a good number of 4'th options could have done as well or better than him last year. And with a fair bit more TD's as well. HD's not special, he was just plopped in the garden of eden for WR's last year.

[papachaz]

Well played, sir.

thank you, glad to see SOMEONE got it, well I did get a like too, so you're not he only one!

oh, you got my last like for the day, don't you feel honored! LOL

[Boogie Man]

Many many? Don't get carried away. Definitely nowhere near what White and Ryan have.

No of course not, but I'm a tad surprised some other team hasn't tried to sign him as a 2, which might be a stretch, but...if you figure 2 receivers times 32 teams is 64 WRs, so as a 3 he should be somewhere between the 65th best and say 80th best WR for him to have real value as a 3 for us.

IMO, he is at least between 65-80.

[ru_serious]

Lmao its actually funny the way you came into the conversation with a checklist of the typical arguments haha

and no, and Im not making a list. He ranked 14th in catches and 20th in yards. that means he was well into the first group of starting WR's...the #1 options for most teams.

The 31st ranked WR going by catches had 67, 740, and 5. And that isnt including teams list Chicago, Denver, etc that had multiple WRs in the top 31. So going by that, I would say Harry easily ranks as a top 32 WR in the NFL. Now, teams need to start 2, sometimes 3 WRs. So considering teams need to start 2 guys, that means the top 64 WRs would be the cutoff of where guys that start should be listed. The 64th ranked WR in catches last season was Davone Bess with 42 catches and 362 yards....that is one of the bottom tier NFL starting WR's. Remember, Douglas was ranked 14.

Douglas had almost double the catches that the worst starters in the league had and he is going to be going into this season as our 3rd option, not even a top 2 guy. He would be a top guy on a handful of teams. Im done with this discussion. He deserves all the targets he is gonna get this year and all this "Any random WR could replace him" talk is gonna stop. It is just ignorant and not intelligent.

And I'm sure those #1 starters having bad stats had nothing to do with having starting QBs like Josh Freeman, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Terrelle Pryor, etc. etc. etc.

[Truth.]

Well actually somebody was asking why Ryan and White weren't given as hard a time when they make mistakes. "truthhurts" quoted my response to that with his retort.

That was me. I was asking why they dont get labeled as "Unclutch" when they screw up just as much as Douglas does. I never siad Douglas was better than them.

Truthhurts, on 12 August 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

HD has balled out many, many times. Happy to have a 3 like him.

"Many many? Don't get carried away. Definitely nowhere near what White and Ryan have. "

So my response to this remains the same. Nobody even brought up Ryan or White. Nobody said he "balled out" more than they did. They just said he has balled out many times. They never said he balled out more than they did.

[Truth.]

No of course not, but I'm a tad surprised some other team hasn't tried to sign him as a 2, which might be a stretch, but...if you figure 2 receivers times 32 teams is 64 WRs, so as a 3 he should be somewhere between the 65th best and say 80th best WR for him to have real value as a 3 for us.

IMO, he is at least between 65-80.

Thank you.

And I would easily give him a rank in the 30's. See my post talking abut how much the 31st and 64th WRs produced. He is more productive than all of them. He easily deserves a top 30 ranking, probably could sneak into the top 20.

So yeah, he could be a 2, possibly a 1. The fact that people complain about him as our 3 is ridiculous lol

And I'm sure those #1 starters having bad stats had nothing to do with having starting QBs like Josh Freeman, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Terrelle Pryor, etc. etc. etc.

Well if we are gonna start making excuses, then I can say that Douglas had a bad O-Line which required him to get open sooner than the typical WR had to. That makes his 85 catches and 1000 yards more impressive.

[ru_serious]

No of course not, but I'm a tad surprised some other team hasn't tried to sign him as a 2, which might be a stretch, but...if you figure 2 receivers times 32 teams is 64 WRs, so as a 3 he should be somewhere between the 65th best and say 80th best WR for him to have real value as a 3 for us.

IMO, he is at least between 65-80.

I'll give him 65-80...maybe even sniffing the 50s, but that's as far as I can go.

[Lornoth]

Well if we are gonna start making excuses, then I can say that Douglas had a bad O-Line which required him to get open sooner than the typical WR had to. That makes his 85 catches and 1000 yards more impressive.

That helped him too. Being the #1 option on most plays, since Ryan never had time to get to #2, let alone 3 or 4 HD got many more balls thrown his way than otherwise exactly because of the short time to throw.

[Truth.]

I'll give him 65-80...maybe even sniffing the 50s, but that's as far as I can go.

Really? So his 85/1000 is better than Cecil Shorts, who ranks in the 30's?

Or Torrey Smith? Stevie Johnson? Greg Jennings? Victor Cruz? Douglas had better numbers than all those guys and those names would be ranked in the 30's.

Douglas is easily in the 30's, probably deserves top 25

[Lornoth]

Seriously saying HD is better than Torrey Smith, Stevie Johnson, Greg Jennings, and Victor Cruz... hahah i'm done.

[Truth.]

That helped him too. Being the #1 option on most plays, since Ryan never had time to get to #2, let alone 3 or 4 HD got many more balls thrown his way than otherwise exactly because of the short time to throw.

Yeah, but it really counters the whole TD argument. Maybe if he had more time to get open he would be able to score more often

[ru_serious]

Thank you.

And I would easily give him a rank in the 30's. See my post talking abut how much the 31st and 64th WRs produced. He is more productive than all of them. He easily deserves a top 30 ranking, probably could sneak into the top 20.

So yeah, he could be a 2, possibly a 1. The fact that people complain about him as our 3 is ridiculous lol

Well if we are gonna start making excuses, then I can say that Douglas had a bad O-Line which required him to get open sooner than the typical WR had to. That makes his 85 catches and 1000 yards more impressive.

So needing a competent QB is an excuse for a WR not having good #s? OK. He was the #1 option for most of the year with a QB that threw for 4,500 yard and he amassed a whopping 1,000 yards and 2 tds.

[Truth.]

Seriously saying HD is better than Torrey Smith, Stevie Johnson, Greg Jennings, and Victor Cruz... hahah i'm done.

You cant ignore production. He tripped in the NFC title game. Let it go. lol

He outproduced those guys. It is a fact. You can deny it all you want, but its true.

[ru_serious]

Really? So his 85/1000 is better than Cecil Shorts, who ranks in the 30's?

Or Torrey Smith? Stevie Johnson? Greg Jennings? Victor Cruz? Douglas had better numbers than all those guys and those names would be ranked in the 30's.

Douglas is easily in the 30's, probably deserves top 25

Wow. Never mind you're obviously special, or related to him.

[Truth.]

So needing a competent QB is an excuse for a WR not having good #s? OK. He was the #1 option for most of the year with a QB that threw for 4,500 yard and he amassed a whopping 1,000 yards and 2 tds.

Well considering Roddy had 711, Julio had 580, Tony had 859...add in his 1000...it adds up quick.

[Lornoth]

You cant ignore production. He tripped in the NFC title game. Let it go. lol

He outproduced those guys. It is a fact. You can deny it all you want, but its true.

He did not out produce those guys... completely untrue. Cruz and Smith outproduced him, Greg was close with a much worse QB and Johnson was injury riddles last year, look at any other years he outproduces HD's last season.

[Truth.]

Wow. Never mind you're obviously special, or related to him.

Look at the stats. He outproduced them. Just look at what he did. You cant ignore it. lol

[Truth.]

He did not out produce those guys... completely untrue. Cruz and Smith outproduced him, Greg was close with a much worse QB and Johnson was injury riddles last year, look at any other years he outproduces HD's last season.

Cruz: 73, 998, 4

Smith: 65, 1128, 4

Jennings: 68, 804, 4

Douglas:85, 1067, 2

He outproduced them all. At the minimum, you need to acknowledge that he was neck and neck with those guys who were easily in the 30's. So Douglas should be in the 30's. Get over it.

[Lornoth]

Cruz: 73, 998, 4

Smith: 65, 1128, 4

Jennings: 68, 804, 4

Douglas:85, 1067, 2

He outproduced them all. At the minimum, you need to acknowledge that he was neck and neck with those guys who were easily in the 30's. So Douglas should be in the 30's. Get over it.

Smith has more yards and TD's on fewer catches, that's called outproducing by a lot. Cruz has just shy of as many yards and more TD's on few catches, that's outproducing. Greg has more TD's and is less than 1 YPC lower, he's worse but with a much worse QB.

And they have all done it in bad positions, for many seasons. HD did it for one season with a great QB when he was the only receiving option. No comparison.

[Truth.]

Smith has more yards and TD's on fewer catches, that's called outproducing by a lot. Cruz has just shy of as many yards and more TD's on few catches, that's outproducing. Greg has more TD's and is less than 1 YPC lower, he's worse but with a much worse QB.

And they have all done it in bad positions, for many seasons. HD did it for one season with a great QB when he was the only receiving option. No comparison.

He wasnt the only WR option lol

Tony, Julio for a quarter of the season, Roddy for a quarter of the season.

And our line was terrible. It hurt his ability to get long catches and TDs. So if he had a team like Baltimore around him he couldve had a higher average.

We could do this all day. Im not arguing about small differences in production levels. He easily fits in that group and that groups easily fits into the top 35 WR's. Harry would start for every team in the league.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Truth.

[Lornoth]

He wasnt the only WR option lol

Tony, Julio for a quarter of the season, Roddy for a quarter of the season.

And our line was terrible. It hurt is ability to get long catches and TDs. So if he had a team like Baltimore around him he couldve had a higher average.

Ravens don't throw is as much and have a worse QB, so the rest of his stats would then suffer though. Besids HD has never had an amazing YPC line any of his seasons.

And he was the only WR option for a while. TG doesn't do a lot of WR routes so HD was the #1 for a lot of those plays. Yeah JJ and Roddy were in for the first few and last few games, it is true. When they were healthy they usually got double teamed though since other teams knew they were all we had besides TG. Hd got plenty of opportunities still as the #2 WR.

[FalconsIn2012]

Haha, Sorry but a little preseason play doesn't magically change my outlook on HD. Im primed to eat some crow though. I want him to prove me wrong about him.

Come on, Tugg...he may trip over the blue line occasionally in big game situations, but in terms of solid #3 receivers, he is one of the best in the league IMO. Just avoid hus butter fingers in late game situations.

[Truth.]

Ravens don't throw is as much and have a worse QB, so the rest of his stats would then suffer though. Besids HD has never had an amazing YPC line any of his seasons.

And he was the only WR option for a while. TG doesn't do a lot of WR routes so HD was the #1 for a lot of those plays. Yeah JJ and Roddy were in for the first few and last few games, it is true. When they were healthy they usually got double teamed though since other teams knew they were all we had besides TG. Hd got plenty of opportunities still as the #2 WR.

Dude, i dont even care anymore. He is in the same group at the other top 35ish guys. He would start for most teams and youre crying about him as our 3.... Im done.