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More Sanctions On Russia


Dago 3.0
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Yeah, he's handled everything so well...laugh.png It's not like his foreign policy up to this point had anything to do with the situation over there now.

In before someone says linK!rolleyes.gif

kGfoq.gif

courtesy of NYG4

what happened before is irrelevant. he has handled the situation well and maybe this is something that can be used to help rebuild some of the damage done during his time in office and from when Bush was in there

some of the countries standing with us are pretty heavy trade partners with Russia...they stand to lose economically by this and that shouldn't be taken for granted

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No it's not. The downing of the plane might not have happened if Obama had a stronger and better foreign policy.

Putin feels empowered with Obama in charge. Russia hasn't dared to expand Westward since the Cold War. Now they feel like they can.

#######

that plane was not downed on purpose. Putin is not stupid

as horrible as that incident is, it may be that Europe wouldn't be acting as aggressively against Russia if it hadn't happened.

once Putin got his foothold, he was looking to turn the heat up gradually until he had what he wanted so there wouldn't be anything definitive and galvanizing to get Europe to unite and take a stand

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Do you really want to go there? When Reagan's presidency began the Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan. By the end up Reagan's president the Soviet Union was pretty much done.

Contrast that with Obama. When Obama took office Russia had been minding it's own business for the most part. Now they are empowered, messing with Ukraine, etc...

Reagan had a strong foreign policy, Obama's is terribly weak and the world knows it, especially Putin.

Minding their own business... by invading Georgia under Bush's watch, who had a similar, "swing our **** around," type of foreign policy as Reagan. Let us not forget that we, under Reagan's authorization, funded and armed the mujaheddin in Afghanistan only to watch them takeover Afghanistan, harbor al-Qaeda (who also got that funding), which led to 9/11. But as long as you're doing everything you can to show the world you have a big **** then whatever. Also, just ignore everything else Russia has been doing in the former Soviet bloc nations to keep them under their fold since the collapse of the Soviet Union in order to support your argument.

Also, again, what exactly should have Obama done to prevent Putin from shooting down that plane?

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I didn't say that it was. But why were missiles being fired to begin with? Because pro-Russian separatists feel empowered to take on Ukraine with Russian support. Russia hasn't been this aggressive since the Cold War. Why? Because they can.

You actually think Russian separatist states in former Soviet bloc countries or Russian supporting them is a new thing? It's been Russia's calling card to keep those countries in line for over two decades.

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Some countries need to see how big your **** is. It is what it is.

As for al-Qaeda , it's once again the same old US policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy that has bit us in the azz multiple times. (see: Soviet Union in WWII for one example).

Ok, you keep pushing the concept but provide zero details. Again, how does Obama prevent the plane from getting shot down through tougher foreign policy?

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No it's a new thing (since the Cold War) that Russia is expanding westward and shooting down planes.

Bottom line: Reagan made Gorbachev his b***h. Putin is making Obama his b***h.

Oh? Is that why Russia dominates the whole of Europe? Last I checked their influence has shrunk to the point where Ukraine is in this situation by getting out of Russia's orbit. But, please continue. Your completely confident know nothingness is entertaining as always.

Because with a stronger leader and with a stronger foreign policy, Russia wouldn't dare push westward into Ukraine. and if that doesn't happen, no planes get shot down.

Reagan had a "if you F with us I will kick your sorry azz" foreign policy. Obama's policy is "oh ok, let me bend over for you".

So what you're saying is Reagan should have been even tougher to prevent that Korean Airlines plane from getting shot down by the Soviets? Or are you saying Reagan was weak as well?

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Also, you still haven't answered the question: How exactly would a tougher foreign policy prevented this? And, no, vague non-answers are not answers. I want specifics since you are completely confident in this. I want to know how exactly Obama could have prevented the Ukraine situation and the plane getting shot down with a tougher foreign policy.

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That's interesting, but your argument was that it should have been prevented by employing a foreign policy like Reagan's... yet a plane was shot down under Reagan's watch by the same people, which makes the entire argument confusing. And, again, how exactly would a more Reagan-esque foreign policy prevented any of this?

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There is little question in my mind that what is happening in Ukraine is far more compelling and potentially threatening beyond the immediate area of conflict, than the Israeli ground offensive. I also happen to regard the sanctions as little more than a nuisance. Germany is Russia's largest European trade partner, if not the largest altogether and consequently the ones who can put the most hurt on Russia as well as themselves via sanctions. I don't expect that Germany or the EU would go too far down that route.

Regardless of how effective sanctions will be or not, some of the other developments surrounding the nations involved such as efforts for an alternative currency to the dollar are going to have profound and long lasting effects that are likely to be felt throughout the world.

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You think the reason for this "new" aggression (we'll ignore the fact that they did the same thing in Georgia under the Bush administration) is a reaction to Obama? That's moronically simplistic.

Russia was nearly completely broken after the dissolution of the USSR, economically and militarily. They had to focus on internal security threats and building an entirely new economy before they could get back to their time-honored tradition of bullying neighbors.

I'm sure Russia would have loved to throw its weight around in the 1990s and early 2000s, but unfortunately for them they had bigger issues at home to deal with.

You were an idiot if you expected Russia to remain down forever. And you are currently an idiot if you think Russia's actions, particularly in regards to their centuries-long quest to control a warm-water port in Crimea, have anything to do with Obama's foreign policy.

If you magically resurrected Ronald Reagan and put him in the White House, he wouldn't do anything differently. After all, he basically invented "cut and run" (see Beirut, 1983). He would also be run out of the modern GOP as a RINO, but that's a different story.

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You guys are going the wrong path there. I think it would be more enlightening for Steve to explain why Russia felt emboldened to invade Georgia under Bush's watch.

Was Bush a weak leader? Should Bush have shown more strength? Why didn't Bush do more to prevent Russia's invasion of Georgia under his administration?

His answers will ensure hilarity for pages.

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No it's not. The downing of the plane might not have happened if Obama had a stronger and better foreign policy.

Putin feels empowered with Obama in charge. Russia hasn't dared to expand Westward since the Cold War. Now they feel like they can.

Please explain how Russia is expanding west ward. This is a net loss for Russia due to Zoros fomenting trouble through proxies and over throwing a elected government.

Amazingly that plane was shot down right about the time BRIC nations were having a meeting on the dollar and alternatives. I'm sure there is nothing to see here and we should just move along because there is nothing to see here cause these are not the droids we are looking for. Asking real questions and pointing to circumstantial facts is crazy talk and conspiracy theories and we know those do not exist they are like unicorns and whale legs.

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