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caveman

Ryan Vs. Brees - Their Battle Will Define Both Careers

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Brees has been on the "decline" for years now...sorry but you guys really aren't gonna be anymore convincing than previous years

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they just point out the obvious deficiencies around their QB...it happens here also, we have thread on thread about the lack of an o-line and how little of a weapon Gonzo is...

So you consider the Ain'ts O-Line an obvious deficiency? Right then...

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Brees has been on the "decline" for years now...sorry but you guys really aren't gonna be anymore convincing than previous years

46-43-39 tds

That's a great "decline" to me

Your QB can't do that at his best

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46-43-39 tds

That's a great "decline" to me

Your QB can't do that at his best

Are under the impression I agreed with him being on a decline?
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So you consider the Ain'ts O-Line an obvious deficiency? Right then...

They've always had lower tier tackles and last year, yea, their line was pretty weak. But most Saints fans I talk with comment on Brees' lack of receivers more than anything

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I believe as it stands today Brees is a HOF'er. He's just padding his stats at this point but that's just my opinion. As far as Ryan is concerned the thing he has to overcome is peoples perception of him. He's considered to be a mid-tier, 2nd rate QB who folds under pressure.

That's an awful lot to overcome. He can put a lot of that to rest with another strong season but as an athlete you are predominantly judged on how well you performed when the lights were brightest.

The NFC Championship game against the 49ers was not on Ryan, our defense sucked and gave away that game. I could be wrong but i think the future HOF'er convo has already passed him by but there's still time for him to be in the elite conversation but he's gonna have to start doing things that only the greats are known for instead of finding ways to solidify what people already think of him.

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Let's say Ryan balls out and Brees fails. Let's say Ryan wins the Super Bowl this year and is the MVP.

Then let's say Brees retires next season. Is Brees a failure? Has this "battle" determined his career? Of course not. He's had a fantastic career regardless of what happens this season.

Let's say Ryan goes on to have a string of losing seasons and never manages to get back to the promised land, or really even close. Has the "battle" determined his career? Of course not.

This thread should be used in the dictionary as an example of "hyperbole."

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Drew Brees career is already defined. He holds all kinds of records and he won a Super Bowl. He is a sure fire HOF player. Any battle with Matt Ryan from here on out will have no impact on how his career is defined.

cnasty, JDaveG and Audiotom like this

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he is not peyton manning he is a product of a great sean peyton system....he will be replaced after this contract

Shouldn't that be your worst nightmare?

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I believe as it stands today Brees is a HOF'er. He's just padding his stats at this point but that's just my opinion. As far as Ryan is concerned the thing he has to overcome is peoples perception of him. He's considered to be a mid-tier, 2nd rate QB who folds under pressure.

That's an awful lot to overcome. He can put a lot of that to rest with another strong season but as an athlete you are predominantly judged on how well you performed when the lights were brightest.

The NFC Championship game against the 49ers was not on Ryan, our defense sucked and gave away that game. I could be wrong but i think the future HOF'er convo has already passed him by but there's still time for him to be in the elite conversation but he's gonna have to start doing things that only the greats are known for instead of finding ways to solidify what people already think of him.

If Ryan plays another 8-10 years, he can be top 5 all time in passing yards and passing TDs,if he does that AND wins a couple of super bowls, he'll be HOF worthy.

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If Ryan plays another 8-10 years, he can be top 5 all time in passing yards and passing TDs,if he does that AND wins a couple of super bowls, he'll be HOF worthy.

Top 5 for about 3 years with the way the league is going...

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The guy is 35. His body is already telling him to quit. It is just a matter of time before it is not worth the time and pain. Not many QB's make it past 36-37 before the wheels fall off. I am not a Saints fan, but Brees has been the reason for the franchise success.

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They've always had lower tier tackles and last year, yea, their line was pretty weak. But most Saints fans I talk with comment on Brees' lack of receivers more than anything

Please. They have top 5 guards and had a very good center as well. Their tackles were better than anything we've had recently. The Ain'ts o-line has been a strength of theirs for some time now.

Now if the guy had said receivers maybe i'd agree with him, because they've been mediocre for a while outside Graham.

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Brees is a shining example of how a great OL can make or break a QB. Brady has the same luxury.

To be honest I think it's the other way around. Great pocket style QBs can make a great OL. To be fair the Saints have put a premium on their guard play which has paid off, but their tackles and centers have been average to below average. They've also been a revolving door (as in new players constantly being bought in) at those positions. QBs like Brees, Brady, and Manning make their QBs look good by knowing when to get rid of the ball and routinely making teams pay for blitzing.

As for some of the other things I think we learn a good bit about where Brees is in his career this season. This could be the first year where he and Payton have confidence in their defense. I also think their offense struggled a good bit last year due to their inability to stretch the field vertically. Cooks should bring that. If he is healthy he is the type of WR that can have an effect on the game with limited targets and zero receptions. They've been playing inside out the last couple of seasons with a pass first mentality. I wouldn't be surprised to see them revert back to a run first, play action type offense this season. If they can pull the LBs up with the run while a guy like Cooks holds the safety back deep JG, Colston, and Still will feast on intermediate passes.

I personally think guys like Brees, Brady, and Manning can play past 40 and still play at a high level. They don't depend on arm strength or their legs. They do it with their heads. Manning is doing it without the full function of his neck for heavens sake.

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Please. They have top 5 guards and had a very good center as well. Their tackles were better than anything we've had recently. The Ain'ts o-line has been a strength of theirs for some time now.

Now if the guy had said receivers maybe i'd agree with him, because they've been mediocre for a while outside Graham.

i didn't say their tackles were worse than ours...I said they've always had lower tier tackles...which they have. as a unit, last year, they didn't do as well as they have in years past...whether that was because of players or something else, it's the truth.

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i didn't say their tackles were worse than ours...I said they've always had lower tier tackles...which they have. as a unit, last year, they didn't do as well as they have in years past...whether that was because of players or something else, it's the truth.

They also don't ask a whole lot of their tackles. It seems their number one priority is to force their guy outside and avoid letting them get inside at all cost. If that means holding so be it. It seems they provide them with a good bit of help when needed as well.

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i didn't say their tackles were worse than ours...I said they've always had lower tier tackles...which they have. as a unit, last year, they didn't do as well as they have in years past...whether that was because of players or something else, it's the truth.

They declined sure but i'm not sure i'd call it anything close to a weakness.

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They also don't ask a whole lot of their tackles. It seems their number one priority is to force their guy outside and avoid letting them get inside at all cost. If that means holding so be it. It seems they provide them with a good bit of help when needed as well.

correct

They declined sure but i'm not sure i'd call it anything close to a weakness.

i feel you

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Brees is on his way to the HoF for sure. Even if you totally disregard their tainted championship, his numerous 5k+ Yards and 40+ TD seasons will get him there.

Ryan is the one who still has to define his career. He could go to the Hall as well, but needs a championship on his resume. As crazy as it may seem, 0y the time Ryan retires 50,000 yards may not be enough without silverware to back it up.

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