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Guest fibonacci
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Guest fibonacci

the process of everything coming to be as it is took place over billions of years, not six literal days. that doesn't deny intelligent design or a creator, but how does man get the idea that God created everything in 144 hours?

that's something that is up to debate. I get the side of both parties that say it took literal days vs those that say it was one day to G-d (which is something like a thousand years scripture).

Also this just seems to take place on the Garden of Eden. so when G-d used science of things, he was working on the rest of the world. Just and idea. Just like when the flood was 40 days and 40 nights, G-d could have been working on the rest of the universe (only a few people to think about on a boat).

but yeah now I get what you are saying. I really don't have of enough research that supports what it meant by days.

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Ya for sure. How does that prove morality isn't subjective?

If morality was truly subjective then why should the killer be punished if he claims that what he did was within his own moral code?
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morallity is subjective, you have satin worshipers that see nothing wrong with murder. rape. drugs ect......to these ppl its not evil but. it is evil in societies eyes..... there for in a way evil is subjective.

but only to the mentally demented.

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Guest fibonacci

if it took 1000 years/day then how did all the trees grow for a thousand years without sunlight?

I get what you are saying. and this is something I just don't know a lot on. And in all fairness it does say that Light was created before the sun. Some see that light as something else, and some see it as light light. And one other thing to add is at the end of chapter one you have where they were to plant the seed bearing plants. so if it was thousand of years, then they don't really need G-d handing them down some seeds that are already there, right?

The Beginning

1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4
God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5
God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
7
So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.
8
God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
10
God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11
Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
12
The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
13
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,
15
and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.
16
God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
17
God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,
18
to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
21
So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22
God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”
23
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24
And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
25
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,
[
]
and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27
So God created mankind in his own image,

in the image of God he created them;

male and female he created them.

28
God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29
Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
30
And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

I don't get why you and Tom are getting onto this one so much. Verse 3 you have light and dark made. (yes it was before the sun. but there was still light). then you got verse 9 being about vegetation. then verse 29 G0d gives seed bearing plants.

furthermore I'll say this. Why do people accept Albino, Black, white people? Yet they want to argue over this stuff so much and get nick picky with it. You do realize you are being nick picky with it, right? you two spent all week talking about "light" needed for plants. and I said at the begging of Tom mentioning this that there was light.

I question a lot of things. and sometimes I just have to believe. And I'm not just talking about the bible or any other religion. I question the fact of why they play a Beatles song in space, when sound cannot travel in space. Or how many chromosomes we really have and why it was only tested once and the door was closed. (and do you know the guy who it was tested on was a janitor guy. and in that time most of janitors had down syndrome.). Or what about the parts of the brain the let us speak multiple languages and create things with understanding, yet Sheep have the same brain (our brains and theirs are crazy in resemblance.).

A lot of people accept anything and everything "as long as it" did not come from the bible.

Heck you have people who jump in the bed and throw the blankets over their head because they are afraid something is in the closet or under the bed, yet those people find it crazy hard to believe in G-d, Jesus, a higher power!

What about Fluoride in our water? people just drink away and don't even know what it does to our brains. Every person who drinks american water lines, drinks a ton of crap. and every person they have had to look into the brain who have drinked american water have had a thick white crust around their Pineal gland. yet people who drink spring water or well water do not show these signs.

People have no problem trusting in science of Evolution. yet there is a big missing link. and there is still monkeys around. either survival of the fittest and selective processing is just thrown out the window when it comes to humans, eh?

You have people who just hate hate hate hitler. but they do not give credit to him for forcing Porsch to come out with cheaper cars (VW), or the autobahn, birth control, and many other things. Heck, people don't even know who Himmler is what his influence was. Heck, people don't even know he was trying to prove the earth was not filled with Magma and it really is just empty (think about it, people go in the caves a mile deep and it is colder. yes some places have magma, but as for it being a big circle like science says, is bologna). And really a big time heck, you got people who do not even know he had the spear of destiny at one point and time. And I bet all of you (minus a couple) even know what the spear of destiny is.

It just seems people who come after the bible should have a bigger problem with normal things. Anyhow, maybe you shouldn't be going questioning so much on something when it says light was created the plants were. And should be looking at other important things.

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morallity is subjective, you have satin worshipers that see nothing wrong with murder. rape. drugs ect......to these ppl its not evil but. it is evil in societies eyes..... there for in a way evil is subjective.

but only to the mentally demented.

If you're talking about the demented ...then morality is not subjective.
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Guest fibonacci

If someone raped my niece, I can see myself murdering the rapist. I would be at peace with it too. As least I would see myself at peace with it.

I know where you stand and you know where I stand. But I would be at piece as well.

I know forgiveness and etc. but I don't look at forgiveness as a get out jail free card. I'm just stating when I saw it was wrong of me, then I can go through the stage of asking to be forgiven.

Now if I made add murder vs killing is very different. Our troops are told to kill (not to murder).

- accidental killing, defending is not murder.

Exodus 21:12-13

Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

Numbers 35:22-25

But if without hostility someone suddenly shoves another or throws something at him unintentionally or, without seeing him, drops a stone on him that could kill him, and he dies, then since he was not his enemy and he did not intend to harm him, the assembly must judge between him and the avenger of blood according to these regulations. The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled.

- See more at: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2013/the-difference-between-killing-and-murdering/#sthash.EPUkiLBG.dpuf

A killing performed in self-defense (or in defense of one’s home) is not murder:

Exodus 22:2

If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed

A killing performed in an attempt to save the life of an innocent person is not murder:

Exodus 2:11-12

One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. (God did not judge Moses as a murderer because he was protecting the life of the slave)

Genesis 14:14-16

When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus. He recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people. (God did not judge Abram as a murderer because he was protecting the life of Lot)

- See more at: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2013/the-difference-between-killing-and-murdering/#sthash.EPUkiLBG.dpuf

I rest my case. Jury is adjourned. :P

murder vs killing, very very different. So Kevo first remark of murdering stands true. So there was no point in him rephrasing his question.

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I haven't been harping on it, I've made less then five posts. This is a discussion thread, right? I'm not breaking any of the rules from your op either. These are legitimate questions if we accept genesis as a literal text. What source was this light then if it wasn't the sun? What happened to it? Also it is not intellectually honest to say you accept things from religion you can't explain based on faith yet scrutinize science for things that they can't explain (yet). As for the bible, who wrote it? When? What revisions has it gone through?

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In my case, it wouldn't be killing. It would be cold blooded murder, I'm not saying I would do it but if someone did kill their child's rapist or something, I wouldn't be upset about it. If I was on jury in determining whether he was guilty, I'm saying he is guilty because he is according to the law. I'm just saying morally I don't find what he did despicable. I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes any sense.

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In my case, it wouldn't be killing. It would be cold blooded murder, I'm not saying I would do it but if someone did kill their child's rapist or something, I wouldn't be upset about it. If I was on jury in determining whether he was guilty, I'm saying he is guilty because he is according to the law. I'm just saying morally I don't find what he did despicable. I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes any sense.

Makes sense to me.
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I haven't been harping on it, I've made less then five posts. This is a discussion thread, right? I'm not breaking any of the rules from your op either. These are legitimate questions if we accept genesis as a literal text. What source was this light then if it wasn't the sun? What happened to it? Also it is not intellectually honest to say you accept things from religion you can't explain based on faith yet scrutinize science for things that they can't explain (yet). As for the bible, who wrote it? When? What revisions has it gone through?

Those are legit questions.

But,I think what some don't realize is that if the Bible were to give scientific definition to every phenomena that occurred according to Biblical text...then the Bible would be at least 100 times longer. If the Bible would have been written in that manner,you then lose the average reader.

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I don't expect a scientific explanation for 900 year old people, talking snakes, every species known to man being on a single boat, why there aren't any kangaroo remains around said boat (how did Noah get the kangaroos on the boat? ), etc, that was more in response to the criticisms of science.

Actually I am more interested in the who wrote it and why and what makes them the authority on a being that transcends the universe.

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I don't expect a scientific explanation for 900 year old people, talking snakes, every species known to man being on a single boat, why there aren't any kangaroo remains around said boat (how did Noah get the kangaroos on the boat? ), etc, that was more in response to the criticisms of science.

Actually I am more interested in the who wrote it and why and what makes them the authority on a being that transcends the universe.

Here is a list of who most theologians believe God used to write the Bible :

http://amazingbibletimeline.com/bible_questions/q1_bible_who_wrote/

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Jo...I know that you were being sarcastic when mentioning 900 year old men in your post,but I would like to offer up a possible explanation.

Genesis 1:6 New Living Translation:

Then God said, "Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth."

Some scientists believe the waters of the heavens may have been a vapor dome that filtered out harmful radiation.

That vapor dome could have been the source of the great flood.

The vapor dome crashing down would then allow harmful radiation to flow freely down to earth...shortening life spans significantly.

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Guest fibonacci

I haven't been harping on it, I've made less then five posts. This is a discussion thread, right? I'm not breaking any of the rules from your op either. These are legitimate questions if we accept genesis as a literal text. What source was this light then if it wasn't the sun? What happened to it? Also it is not intellectually honest to say you accept things from religion you can't explain based on faith yet scrutinize science for things that they can't explain (yet). As for the bible, who wrote it? When? What revisions has it gone through?

Hebrew and Arabic is old testament. New testament was mostly Latin.

It's been changed from language to language of course.

In my opinion. Eldest language says things better. And makes it easier to understand actually.

Now you are getting somewhere with asking what light is (before the sun). Could have been light from another sun, a distant sun, light of knowledge, light is Jesus, light of G-d, and who knows what else.

Nothing really says what the light was. but when i hear it was knowledge, Jesus, G-d, etc.type stuff. I then say,,"well there was dark right after that phrase, so what was that then?".

Also Lucifer was known as light (enlightenment). And also there is never a bad scripture of Lucifer. Also the satanic Bible has nothing bad on Lucifer. Lucifer is an angel.

But.... When devil, Dragon, satan are mentioned that is bad things brought up. While in the Quran, those mean a jenn/jenni. (half angel half human type stuff). Quran shows that angels are not bad or good, they just follow commands on what to do. Satan is the only one to say no. And that is in the quran. He was told to bow to Adam and he said no. And he was kicked out.

Venus is associated with Lucifer Venus.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Venus is also the planet that was more then likely the star described in the Bible that lead the wise men to baby Jesus.

-also some say the crown on stair of liberty is about enlightenment. (7 means enlightenment)

In gematrua you find out that "Jesus is the key = 176 = Lucifer is the lock". If you don't know gematria you take a =1, b=2, c=3, etc etc.

Gematria and magick are Jewish things. It's the next level up in learning. But a lot do not go to those higher levels.

I know this is deep stuff and a lot out scatter. But I'm showing i have questions just like you. And that you have too look at all religions as what is truth in order to find some things out. Because nothing in the Bible says why satan fell. It's only mentioned in revelations (which if people say it is to happen in the future, then that means satan has not fell). And to me revelation is about reveling Gensis. And i don't mind showing why if you want to know.

Also the book of Enoch (for a stupid reason it was left out of the Bible). but it explains a lot of past things. I love that book.

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Guest fibonacci

In my case, it wouldn't be killing. It would be cold blooded murder, I'm not saying I would do it but if someone did kill their child's rapist or something, I wouldn't be upset about it. If I was on jury in determining whether he was guilty, I'm saying he is guilty because he is according to the law. I'm just saying morally I don't find what he did despicable. I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes any sense.

makes sense to me.
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Jo...I know that you were being sarcastic when mentioning 900 year old men in your post,but I would like to offer up a possible explanation.

Genesis 1:6 New Living Translation:

Then God said, "Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth."

Some scientists believe the waters of the heavens may have been a vapor dome that filtered out harmful radiation.

That vapor dome could have been the source of the great flood.

The vapor dome crashing down would then allow harmful radiation to flow freely down to earth...shortening life spans significantly.

This was something that I had read several years ago...but apparently this theory was disproved years ago :D
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Jo...I know that you were being sarcastic when mentioning 900 year old men in your post,but I would like to offer up a possible explanation.

Genesis 1:6 New Living Translation:

Then God said, "Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth."

Some scientists believe the waters of the heavens may have been a vapor dome that filtered out harmful radiation.

That vapor dome could have been the source of the great flood.

The vapor dome crashing down would then allow harmful radiation to flow freely down to earth...shortening life spans significantly.

Intent is hard to tell online. I haven't intended to be sarcastic. I don't judge people for their beliefs.

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Guest fibonacci

lol none needed. it's been a surprisingly civil discussion.

i get cranky. But you already seen that. I'm just getting old. :D
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