Walker Discusses Swinging At Non Competitive Pitches

[Falconsfan567]

What insights do you have in the White Sox situation? I don't know much, other than they were a strong offensive team for most of his tenure, which included a world championship, and that the entire team started to implode starting around 2008 and a lot of people sited the deterioration of the relationship between the GM and the manager as a primary reason for it. Do you have anything to add?

So the GM and manager not getting along is the reason the White Sox became a bottom feeder team overnight? I watch a lot of White Sox baseball games because that's my brother's team. I can tell you that Walker was not getting through to the hitters those last few years he was there. Granted he didn't have a whole lot of talent to work with but the guys he did have were not getting any better. Even the young talent like Gordon Beckham and Tyler Flowers weren't getting any better.

[K26dp]

So the GM and manager not getting along is the reason the White Sox became a bottom feeder team overnight?

Overnight? No, but almost everyone involved said it was a large part of the transition from world champion to dumpster fire.

I watch a lot of White Sox baseball games because that's my brother's team. I can tell you that Walker was not getting through to the hitters those last few years he was there. Granted he didn't have a whole lot of talent to work with but the guys he did have were not getting any better. Even the young talent like Gordon Beckham and Tyler Flowers weren't getting any better.

OK. I don't see how that has anything to do with the Braves.

[Falconsfan567]

Overnight? No, but almost everyone involved said it was a large part of the transition from world champion to dumpster fire.

OK. I don't see how that has anything to do with the Braves.

Seriously?? Dude whatever. Give me Terry Pendleton over Greg Walker anyday. How you can say you like Walker better just blows my mind. But I'm done trying to explain it. You want to give Walker a complete pass that's fine. HeIl, let's never blame a coach again. Wasn't Larry Parish's fault the Braves offense sucked in 2012. It was the players fault. HeIl if the coach doesn't have an responsibility then hire me as coach. I can ******* tell guys to stop swinging at pitches that are balls and to start swinging at strikes. I mean if that's all it takes to be a qualified hitting instructor in the major leagues!

[K26dp]

Seriously?? Dude whatever. Give me Terry Pendleton over Greg Walker anyday. How you can say you like Walker better just blows my mind. But I'm done trying to explain it. You want to give Walker a complete pass that's fine. HeIl, let's never blame a coach again. Wasn't Larry Parish's fault the Braves offense sucked in 2012. It was the players fault. HeIl if the coach doesn't have an responsibility then hire me as coach. I can ******* tell guys to stop swinging at pitches that are balls and to start swinging at strikes. I mean if that's all it takes to be a qualified hitting instructor in the major leagues!

If you prefer someone else to Walker, OK. You just haven't made a convincing arguement that someone else would be better. And slipping into hyperbole doesn't make your arguement any more convincing.

It comes across more that you are just engageing in scapegoating.

[WOR]

Chipper did "fix" BJ in a few hours when Walker couldn't do it in a whole year lol

[K26dp]

Chipper did "fix" BJ in a few hours when Walker couldn't do it in a whole year lol

Yes, since that much publicized conversation, BJ has hit .209/.303/.339. All fixed.

[WOR]

Yes, since that much publicized conversation, BJ has hit .209/.303/.339. All fixed.

You can't tell me, with a straight face, that that meeting with Chipper didn't change BJ

[K26dp]

You can't tell me, with a straight face, that that meeting with Chipper didn't change BJ

Did it? BJ had been working with Walker since the off-season to simplify his swing. The results were somewhat promising in spring, but hadn't born fruit in the two weeks of the regular season (his batting line up to April 14 was .200/.245/.320). Chipper stops by, he and Walker watch BJ in the cage and makes some suggestions.

The next nine days, Upton has a huge upswing! All the way up to .219/.342/.250! Actually that still sucks, but at least BJ was walking a bit. So clearly the difference made by Chipper was that he told BJ to be more selective, right? Except that's not what Chipper told him.

"He's got a little extra hinge with his hands that is taking his bat past perpendicular," Jones said. "Whenever you do that, your back elbow comes up. In order to get back to swing the bat, the elbow has to come down, which means the bat path loops and he's got this upward plane. The ball down, he'll be able to hit. But the pitch thigh-high, he's going to have trouble with it."

So Chipper's diagnosis (which I am sure is 100% accurate) did not have anything to do with an upsurge in BJ's pitch selection, which is what allowed BJ a brief surge of relative success.

Then we see BJ Upton try playing with glasses. Since playing with glasses? .186/.266/.343. Nope, still sucking.

So no, I don't see any evidence that meeting with Chipper, or wearing glasses, or anything has significantly improved BJ Upton. He currently sits with a .197/.276/.316 line, which is depressingly close to his 2013 year end line. He would be in the same boat as Dan Uggla now, except he can at least still play defense and there's not a credible replacement for him.

[Falconsfan567]

If you prefer someone else to Walker, OK. You just haven't made a convincing arguement that someone else would be better. And slipping into hyperbole doesn't make your arguement any more convincing.

It comes across more that you are just engageing in scapegoating.

I have. We can't get Chipper, I know that. But Chipper got results. B.J. hit much better for the next few weeks immediately after working with Chipper. But he's been back to sucking again lately. Really need Chipper to come in again and get B.J. back on track since the guy getting paid to do it can't.

Don Baylor turned Chipper from being a lousy singles hitter right-handed to being just as dangerous from that side of the plate as he was from the left-side of the plate. Years and years ago when Gerald Perry was around the Braves he turned Justice into a monster power hitter.

What has Greg Walker ever done to show that he knows what he's doing? Oh wait, we can't use his time with the Braves since it's too much of a small sample size and you completely throw out his time with the White Sox.

[K26dp]

I have. We can't get Chipper, I know that. But Chipper got results. B.J. hit much better for the next few weeks immediately after working with Chipper.

Please point to the "much better" hitting BJ Upton. I don't see it.

You can use whatever you like, White Sox, Braves, whatever. It doesn't matter, because you've made up your mind.

[Falconsfan567]

Yes, since that much publicized conversation, BJ has hit .209/.303/.339. All fixed.

In the immediate 24 games following his work with Chipper, B.J. hit .236/.337/.382. That's miles better than the .184 he hit last year and not far off his career mark with the Rays of .255/.336/.422.

[K26dp]

In the immediate 24 games following his work with Chipper, B.J. hit .236/.337/.382. That's miles better than the .184 he hit last year and not far off his career mark with the Rays of .255/.336/.422.

Wow, those are eye-popping numbers. You win my friend.

[ATLBrave]

So instead of sucking completely, he was only below average.

[youngbloodz]

Wow, those are eye-popping numbers. You win my friend.

not eye popping. But proves that whatever Chipper said helped somewhat. Better than what Walker told him. Just saying

[ATLBrave]

What people fail to realize, and something that k26 has brought up in this thread already, is that it wasn't JUST Chipper by himself talking to BJ. He was with Walker when they talked to him. Making a minor mechanical adjustment and then subsequently having it exploited weeks later is not any kind of miraculous work.

[youngbloodz]

Well Chipper hasn't been around and BJ sucks. Chipper comes around and BJ does better. Greg Walker is around and BJ sucks. Greg Walker is around with Chipper and BJ does better. I'm not saying, I'm just saying

[ATLBrave]

Once again, we'd all love Chipper, but the ************* ain't walking through that door anytime soon. Regardless of whatever small adjustment was made to a terrible hitter to make him slightly (and I use that word loosely) better for a couple of weeks, judging a guy based on the results of one player is pretty **** stupid. If we want to do that, why not harp on the consistent improvement Freeman had made since coming into the majors?

[youngbloodz]

I don't see why you are getting upset over this discussion about a freaking game. Hitting coaches don't have to worry about hitters like Freeman. He would thrive with any hitting coach. Freddie can just flat out hit. I always marvel at the Cardinals organization. They can hit. Seems like all their players can hit. I'm sure not all can but it seems like it. Hope the Braves can get to that level when it comes to offense

[K26dp]

Well Chipper hasn't been around and BJ sucks. Chipper comes around and BJ does better. Greg Walker is around and BJ sucks. Greg Walker is around with Chipper and BJ does better. I'm not saying, I'm just saying

The "improvement" is so miniscule and over such a small time period, that it could be attributable to anything.

To me it looks like you guys are going with the typical "blame the coach" fan game, and are looking for stats to back up your already-reached conclusion.

You know, I'm just saying.

[youngbloodz]

The "improvement" is so miniscule and over such a small time period, that it could be attributable to anything.

To me it looks like you guys are going with the typical "blame the coach" fan game, and are looking for stats to back up your already-reached conclusion.

You know, I'm just saying.

I call it like I see it. However miniscule the improvement was it was still that...an improvement. Too bad he couldn't sustain it. I have been saying for a year that I believe Chipper could help BJ. And I have said the way this offense is constructed I don't think we will win in the playoffs. See I put blame on everybody. Not just one person. But I just know enough about professional sports to know it's easier to replace a coach than a player. Walker will get fired long before BJ is traded.

[ugadawg]

For those that say Chipper told BJ something better than what Walker was telling him.

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/upton-less-lineup-bj-works-on-swing-justin-gets-re/nX5H8/

Walker has been telling him for a year now.

I agree that Chipper would make a great hitting coach.

I also disagree that if a player is not listening to a coach it is always the coach’s issue. I have worked with a lot of kids. I have help quite a few greatly improve. I also have had a few that refused to listen to that same message. Now years later I have seen those same kids continue to refuse to listen to anyone’s message not just mine. That is not an issue with the coach it is an issue with the present day premadona’s society is producing.

[Falconsfan567]

not eye popping. But proves that whatever Chipper said helped somewhat. Better than what Walker told him. Just saying

Exactly what I said in my very first post in this thread.

[Falconsfan567]

Wow, those are eye-popping numbers. You win my friend.

So instead of sucking completely, he was only below average.

Which would you rather have? .184 or .236? I don't know about you guys but .236 (while still pretty bad) is miles better than .184.

[Falconsfan567]

Once again, we'd all love Chipper, but the ************* ain't walking through that door anytime soon. Regardless of whatever small adjustment was made to a terrible hitter to make him slightly (and I use that word loosely) better for a couple of weeks, judging a guy based on the results of one player is pretty **** stupid. If we want to do that, why not harp on the consistent improvement Freeman had made since coming into the majors?

Chipper has a long history of making guys better. Greg Walker has a long history of making guys worse. But of course we can't judge him by his White Sox stint according to k26dp because nobody could succeed in that cesspool of mess. All I'm trying to say is Greg Walker is not better than Terry Pendleton. When I asked k26dp to explain all he said was because Walker tells the guys the right things to do. Hello! If that's all it takes to be a hitting coach in the majors then sign my *** up! I can tell guys to stop swinging at ****. But there's far more to hitting than just pitch selection.

[youngbloodz]

For those that say Chipper told BJ something better than what Walker was telling him.

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/upton-less-lineup-bj-works-on-swing-justin-gets-re/nX5H8/

Walker has been telling him for a year now.

I agree that Chipper would make a great hitting coach.

I also disagree that if a player is not listening to a coach it is always the coach’s issue. I have worked with a lot of kids. I have help quite a few greatly improve. I also have had a few that refused to listen to that same message. Now years later I have seen those same kids continue to refuse to listen to anyone’s message not just mine. That is not an issue with the coach it is an issue with the present day premadona’s society is producing.

you aren't going to get through to every player. Some players just think they know everything. I have coach football long enough to know these things. But the great coaches get most of their players to listen. I also find it if you actually played the game and at a high level they are more than likely to listen to you