Jump to content

Has The Pass Rush Really Been Addressed?


Recommended Posts

So there's a lot of talk on the boards about the potential of our draft picks, how good we can be, etc etc etc...

But no one really seems to be bringing up a legitimate issue.

Where is our pass rush?

In free agency, we signed 2 guys (Soliai & Jackson) who are known for their ability to stuff the run.

In the draft, we got Hageman who let's be honest, we have ZERO idea what this guy can do. To me, he's such a 50/50 player for us. He'll either tear it up on the field or be an absolute bust. It's up to the coaching staff there to get him going... and thank God we have a new coaching staff for the d-line because if it was still our old guy I would have no faith at all in the coaches to bring a guy like Hageman up.

When Osi Umenyiora is your "best" pass rusher who will be 33 this season, you're in serious trouble. I have no doubt we'll be better against the run, but right now I just do NOT see where our pass rush will be coming from.

Osi will get you 6-8 sacks, Kroy (if still on the team) will give you 4 + a bunch of "almost" sacks (Falcon fans know what I'm talking about), Babs continues to age (and has the Kroy syndrome, get into the backfield but don't make the play), Peters is coming off an Achilles tear, and the rest of the late-round TD draft picks such as Maponga, Goodman, and Mass haven't shown enough yet to warrant much starting time.

I just need some help here figuring out what is to like about our d-line guys. I don't see where the pass rush will be coming from.

Edited by SativaSam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of times pass rush is not just about a player beating another player.

It's about a team or group of players beating another group.

In this instance while I would still prefer a pass rusher per se. We have DL that can stack up or take care of blockers for others to roam free, similar to what Justin Smith does for Aldon Smith.

This will be a scheme based, team effort pass rushing team, not individual.

The best teams have both. We didn't get afforded an opportunity to get that.

Can't say the FO didn't try. We tried to trade up for Clowney, Mack, and Dee Ford.

Once you get beyond those 3, then you basically have the same players we already have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am cautiously optimistic.

Look, Nolan is a scheme guy. He wants the entire 54-man roster to have two sacks each (including Boshner -- I saw the play diagrammed, it's pretty sick). He does not want (though I am sure he'd welcome) to scheme for Dwight Freeney.

He said as much (well, I paraphrase, but you all know what I am talking about).

So, we now have a solid 3-man front (Hageman, Soliai, Jackson) a pretty solid 4-man front (Any of the other three, along with Babs, Peters, Stanley and Massaquoi), and umpteen variations for sub packages. The pass rush will come from our linebackers. We have plenty of speedy linebackers who will benefit from the front 3 or 4. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hester in a sub-package blitzing.

Point being, our pass rush will most assuredly be better. It may not be good enough yet, by whatever arbitrary criteria you choose to judge such a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes

We have paraded a ton of pass rushing DE's in and out of here through the years and the one constant was our lack of push in the middle, Addressing that has addressed our Pass rushing issues. Even Abe only performed his best when we had push in the middle when we had Grady Jackson collapsing the pocket.

How many freakin times have our De's been about to get a sack only to have the QB simply step up in the perfect pocket in front of him because our interior dline could never collapse the pocket? This happened multiple time a game for years and happened no matter who we had at DE. TD finally fixed the root cause and re worked our interior Dline. It would have been insanity to keep parading edge rushing DE's in here only to have them fail.

Getting a big interior dline = collapsing the pocket = more sacks since QB's can no longer step up in the pocket and avoid our DE's.

Edited by MAD597
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple answer: no.

But the interior will help.

Next year we will know more about guys like maponga, mass, Starr, shembo,etc

Then we can draft a true pass rush threat

Exactly. This wasn't a one year fix but we should see a better pass rush next season but that's not saying much lol

Mack coming off the board right before our pick hurt. But I'm very happy with Mathews as I don't have any faith at all in Baker. Still not sure why TD signed him on that big contract. Effing ********.

Next year I could see us trading up, way up, to get a pass rushing stud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think we'll be on the Panties' level but the pass rush should improve for several reasons:

1 - better inside push from Soliai, Hageman and Jackson

2 - improvement of Mass and Maponga and return of Biermann

3 - disguise of 3-4 blitzes

4 - more corner and safety blitzes from Nolan

5 - one of our 12 LBs rising up as a legit pass rusher

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think we'll be on the Panties' level but the pass rush should improve for several reasons:

1 - better inside push from Soliai, Hageman and Jackson

2 - improvement of Mass and Maponga and return of Biermann

3 - disguise of 3-4 blitzes

4 - more corner and safety blitzes from Nolan

5 - one of our 12 LBs rising up as a legit pass rusher

End thread. It's pretty simple guys, football isn't that complicated. Why does everyone assume that pressure has to come from the edge or a big name OLB? The best pass rushing teams collapse the pocket as a whole. The QB can't step up so the edge guys get the big numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

End thread. It's pretty simple guys, football isn't that complicated. Why does everyone assume that pressure has to come from the edge or a big name OLB? The best pass rushing teams collapse the pocket as a whole. The QB can't step up so the edge guys get the big numbers.

Yep how do you think Ray Edwards got 8+ sacks two years in a row then came here and failed miserably? OSI, Biermann, Goodman, Mass are all better than Ray ever was and will perform that way with a better interior Dline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm starting to think its the falcons not the players

We've drafted enough guys to at least hit on some solid pass rushers (7-10 sacks) and we haven't

Not sure what scheme were running but I don't always think it benefits our rusher.

Like Kroy can get pressure but never get the sack Mass showed rushing skills but didn't seem like his job was to always go get the QB I think he was supposed to get pressure but contain the running game kind of what Kroy has been doing.

Nolan should just make it simple like Rob Ryan did in that don't worry about anything but getting to the QB and that's how you have a guy like Junior Galette get 12 sacks. Even pete Carroll makes it simple in that he wants his guys to go were the ball is watch there games they usually have a bunch of guys around the ball.

I think if your lacking on talent then you need to scheme but if Rob Ryan (who is way overrated and hadn't had a good defense in a long time) can take the worse defense in NFL history and do what he did last year Nolan better make this one tops in the NFL.

In all seriousness Though if the defense sucks this year its pretty obvious smith has major input (former defensive coordinator) on that side of the ball and may need to be let go. I think he has done a pretty good job but we may have peaked because talent wise the defense is loaded and overall as a team is pretty loaded should easily be a playoff team Smith did a horrible job last season adjusting to his talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Dtan: God Of Objectivity

in one word.

troll.

Most people on the thread and most experts seem to agree.

Are we all "trolls?"

Or are you just a homer with your head in the sand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can tell by the way that we drafted and the FA signings. We'll be collapsing from the inside. We have edge rushers and will be utilized, but by the looks of it we will indeed be trying to collapse the pocket instead of focusing primarily on the edge rush.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes

We have paraded a ton of pass rushing DE's in and out of here through the years and the one constant was our lack of push in the middle, Addressing that has addressed our Pass rushing issues. Even Abe only performed his best when we had push in the middle when we had Grady Jackson collapsing the pocket.

How many freakin times have our De's been about to get a sack only to have the QB simply step up in the perfect pocket in front of him because our interior dline could never collapse the pocket? This happened multiple time a game for years and happened no matter who we had at DE. TD finally fixed the root cause and re worked our interior Dline. It would have been insanity to keep parading edge rushing DE's in here only to have them fail.

Getting a big interior dline = collapsing the pocket = more sacks since QB's can no longer step up in the pocket and avoid our DE's.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

End thread. It's pretty simple guys, football isn't that complicated. Why does everyone assume that pressure has to come from the edge or a big name OLB? The best pass rushing teams collapse the pocket as a whole. The QB can't step up so the edge guys get the big numbers.

If you have shut down corners pressure is all you need look at Seattle problem is we don't have shut down corners we have some talented ones but I wouldn't consider Trufant a shut down corner yet.

And Pressure is only good if you can get it threw the entire game.

Sacks are far more valuable because there drive killers instead of 2nd and 10 its 2nd and 15

I think pressure is valuable only if you complement with a great pass rusher kind of what the ravens,Steelers and 9ers defense have done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep how do you think Ray Edwards got 8+ sacks two years in a row then came here and failed miserably? OSI, Biermann, Goodman, Mass are all better than Ray ever was and will perform that way with a better interior Dline.

Osi and Company just have to be play with discipline and the sacks will be there to have. We had a big problem with actually bringing down the QB in the past too, not just getting to them so hopefully we can get some more vicious finishes and less failed arm tackles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like what I've seen on video as far as our new defensive players are concerned. Hageman looks like he has a good motor, bad attitude to match, and the physical tools to be a great player for us. I watched just a few Shembo highlights today and he's got potential ~ you can tell the man loves contact. We may have as many as two or three starting-caliber, legit pass rushing LB'ers emerge from this massive influx, but I still feel we're at least one premier edge rusher short of having the problem solved ~ especially in our division with ScarFace and sCam. Not going to pick up a stud DE as a camp cut, so I highly doubt there will be anything done about this until next season....or beyond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have shut down corners pressure is all you need look at Seattle problem is we don't have shut down corners we have some talented ones but I wouldn't consider Trufant a shut down corner yet.

And Pressure is only good if you can get it threw the entire game.

Sacks are far more valuable because there drive killers instead of 2nd and 10 its 2nd and 15

I think pressure is valuable only if you complement with a great pass rusher kind of what the ravens,Steelers and 9ers defense have done

Huh?

First off, you can't have shut down corners without pressure. No CB is running with a good NFL WR for 5+ seconds, period. Sherman is shut down because you can't beat him in 3 seconds and the Seahawks defense won't give you any longer than that to do it. So when the ball goes up Sherman can make a play on it. If the QB could just wait 3 more seconds, like they do against us, the WR could make another move and get away from even Sherman.

Seatte has a great defense as a WHOLE. Front 4 that collapses the pocket and a secondary that is athletic enough to capitalize on the QBs forced throws. Thomas makes his leaving preying on the the mistakes the QBs are forced into because Sherman is covering his man he knows the pressure from Avril and Co will force the ball out in a few seconds. Take away their pass rush and their secondary loses a lot of its luster. It's a team game.

Pressure is good anytime. You want it on the first pass play through to the last. Every pass play where there is no pressure is much more likely to succeed. A sack just occurs when the coverage intensity matches the pressure OR the QB is wack and doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough OR the Offensive blocking is so horrible that the QB doesn't have time to do a thing (see us). But pressure should be constant and the good defense do.

Pressure is valuable period. 49ers pass rushers look so good because Justin Smith, Sopoga/Williams, Ray McDonald are doing that work inside. Steelers? See Hapton and Kiesel. Ravens? Obviously Ngata, with Jones and others throughout the years. Every great pass rush is because of the unsung heroes in the middle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...