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Mack Or Barr+Compensation


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First off good post OP.

In this scenario of taking Mack or getting Barr and a 2nd I take Mack hands down. Reasoning behind my decision is we don't have nor should I expect us to have a top 6 pick anytime soon. So I want an elite player and choose quality over quantity. Mack is a 3 down player who will never have to leave the field right now so taking him would address the position in it's entirety for the next 10+ years.

What does it matter that we are picking 6? That is irrelevent. It comes down to the player evaluation whether its 6 or 26. Barr is also a 3 down player, he does not come of the field on passing downs. While Mack has more picks, Barr has 1 more PD than Mack over the past 2 years. And again, Barr only played OLB 2 years...and of course Barr has more sacks.
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The difference between OUR opinions here between Mack or Barr.........and the opinions at Flowery Branch are probably like NIGHT & DAY. We don't know who they rate better for the Falcons. It could be by May 8, 3/4 of the NFL will have rated Barr HIGHER than Mack. We simply don't know.

The "Real World" of the NFL is quite different than the fans bubblegum dream world.

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The difference between OUR opinions here between Mack or Barr.........and the opinions at Flowery Branch are probably like NIGHT & DAY. We don't know who they rate better for the Falcons. It could be by May 8, 3/4 of the NFL will have rated Barr HIGHER than Mack. We simply don't know.

The "Real World" of the NFL is quite different than the fans bubblegum dream world.

I agree

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The difference between OUR opinions here between Mack or Barr.........and the opinions at Flowery Branch are probably like NIGHT & DAY. We don't know who they rate better for the Falcons. It could be by May 8, 3/4 of the NFL will have rated Barr HIGHER than Mack. We simply don't know.

The "Real World" of the NFL is quite different than the fans bubblegum dream world.

Thats why WE are on message boards, and TD and MS are at Flowery Branch. Your post is like CAPTIAN OBVIOUS made it. The message boards are to express opinion/concern, suggest ideas etc. Of course it has no bearing on the FO lol, and of course we dont know what they think and how the rate these 2 players or any othes. However, we KNOW that Barr and not Mack...is scheduled for a private workout...could that change? yes, but for now...is what it is.
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At least learn what you are talking about before you post. U want to take a 4-3 MLB at 6, in our 3-4 front...to play OLB? We all have opinions but at least give the bare mimimum of knowledge dude.

The bare minimum of knowledge would include knowing that Mosley was a 3-4 ILB all four years of college.

As for Barr, I think he will be a bust because even on his highlight videos half of the plays involve him pile jumping or being unblocked. He isn't dominating OTs and repeatedly making them look silly. He's just a speed rusher who was usually lined up way outside because he plays too upright to turn the corner.

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This draft offers some very good pass rushers in rounds one and two.

Barr: He has all the physical tools to be a game changer. He lacks the experience and training. After watching him play in four games this season, I can offer an amateur opinion. He has impressive stats, but most of his sacks came as a result of schematic advantages......he was often unimpeaded. To my eyes, his first instinct is to avoid contact. Perhaps his instincts come from his formative years playing RB. What ever the reason, I don't see a player with the hunt and destroy mentality that we need on defense. Several media outlets compare him to Ware, but I see another Dion Jordan.

Mosley: This Alabama LB is smaller (thinner) than most of the pass rushers mentioned on these boards. His primary responsibilities in college were to cover ground and shut down crossing patterns. He did a great job and will likely get drafted early. He is a special talent, but I don't see a great pass rusher. He does not have the same body, but I liken him to Brian Urlacher.....a strong run defender but an excellent pass defender. Don't get me wrong, I like him and respect his talent, but I don't see him filling a void on our defense.

Easley: Michael Sam received most of the media attention at Missouri, but Easley was the better defender. KE is built like a more traditional 4-3 DE and consequently, he lacks the agility to drop back into coverage and defend pass plays against RB's and TE's. Having said that, he has the necessary dip and rip moves to become a very good pass rusher. No comparison comes to mind, at the moment, but he remains a very interesting first rounder.

Donald: I have not advocated for Aaron Donald mainly because I like the idea of big 3-4-type DL's. But the truth of the matter is that AD is a special talent. His production on the field is phenomenal and points to his relentless aggressiveness. HIs performance at the Combine proves that he has special physical tools. If you want an interior pass rusher, AD is about as good as it gets. Deos he fit into Nolan's defense? I don't know.

Ford: Dee Ford looks like he is shot out of a cannon. I don't know of a player with a quicker first step, in this draft. He is limited by his size and his lack of moves, but there is no question that he could be devastating, if he is protected by the guys playing in front of him. With the right training, he could develop a full compliment of pass rushing moves.....and if he does, he could compare to Dwight Freeney. However it is too early to make that comparison.

Attaochu: People forget that JA is from Africa and has not played football for very long. He has great talent and is a serious young man. He is also very intelligent. If you expect him to be versatile and fill various roles, then you might have to be very patient. At the moment, JA is a pass rusher, and very little else. He is an ideal 3-4 OLB, but I wonder if he can be molded into a hybrid defender.

Van Noy: Few people talk about him. He seems to hover around the second round in most mocks. This guy suffers because he does so many things well, but does not jump out with spectacular plays. I don't recall his measurables at the Combine, but I see him as a very good option in a defense that requires its LB's to adapt. His ability in pass coverage also makes him an interesting prospect in Nolan's "amoeba" schemes.

Shazier: At 6'-1", there are questions about how he will stand up against the run. His college production answers those questions. This guy is a football player. I would have liked to have seen him play more, to give an opinion. All I can say is that he played at a high level against very good competition. He deserves a long look.

Gayle: This Hokie was consistently productive in college. A quarter of his tackles were for a loss. James Gayle is decidely a mid-to-late round guy, but he has developmental talent. I include him in this discussion, just to get your opinions of him.

Jones: Christian Jones was all over the field for the Seminoles. There is no doubt about his physical abilities. Is he just another inticing FSU LB? I can't get a fix on this player, but I wonder whether Brian Cox can turn him into a head hunter.

Murphy: Trent Murphy is not a quick twitch player. In other words, his athleticism does not jump out at you. Is is athletic enough to play standing up, as well as with his hand on the ground, but he is not exciting. He is strong, but not stiff. But above all, he is extremely tough. This guy used to wrestle steers.....yeah, steers. Playing at Stanford, he was very productive as a 3-4 OLB, but I see the smarts and aggressiveness to expect him to perform well in Nolan's defense. Believe it or not, I see a lot of Jared Allen in him. I think that he will get drafted in the late second round. If so, I think that he would be a great value pick.

Well, that is all, for now. I'd like to read your opinions about these and any other pass rushers in this draft. Of course, we all know about Mack and Clowney. I just feel that the discussion should start to delve into alternative prospects. Sorry about hijacking the thread, but I feel that expanding the discussion beyond Barr v. Mack will lead to more understanding.

Good post bro and with adequate coaching I feel we can't go wrong with any of these guys IMO!

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Barr. I might be the lone passenger on this bandwagon. Give him some coaching and this guy will develop into a beast. He never gives up on a play.

Been on the Barr wagon from day one. Still think five years down the road he will be the best edge rusher from the 2014 draft. Yep better than Clowney, Mack and the rest. Dude reminds me of a young John Abraham. So in the OP's scenario, give me Barr and a second and I will make sure to use one of my seconds to move up for Pryor. Use the other second on an OT, then go RB and TE in the third and fourth, plus a NT with my first comp pick.
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Not particularly a fan of Barr, myself. But all of these are good points to consider.

If picking up an extra starter means dropping off in talent a bit on our edge rusher/1st rounder, I'm ok with it.

Thank you for admitting it is only "a bit" of a drop off in talent. Most Barr-haters act like he is this awful player
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The bare minimum of knowledge would include knowing that Mosley was a 3-4 ILB all four years of college.

As for Barr, I think he will be a bust because even on his highlight videos half of the plays involve him pile jumping or being unblocked. He isn't dominating OTs and repeatedly making them look silly. He's just a speed rusher who was usually lined up way outside because he plays too upright to turn the corner.

First of all, no he is not a pile diver. That just means he hustles, something you wont see from someone like Clowney.

Secondly, we dont need hom to be an inside guy. And Mack isnt an inside guy either. Stop using that argument. It is stupid and irrelevant.

Barr has a good highlight reel, but after watching one of is full game tapes he looked really patheitc. I think it was against Stafford...it was horrible. I'd much rather take Mack.

Matt Stafford?

Mack this dude is huge. Let him run loose like Aldon Smith.

Aldon Smith is considered by most to be a skinny dude for an edge rusher
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Barr reminds me of Jamal Anderson. I rather get a sure thing at #6 than a "may develop in 3 years" in the mid to late 1st.

STOP IT! The ******** comparisons are so dumb. You should get banned for saying that. You use absolutely no evidence or logic when saying that. He is nothing like Jamal Anderson. Just because Anderson sucked and you dont like Barr doesnt mean you can say he reminds you of Anderson. Such ********. Just stop. ******* ******
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Been on the Barr wagon from day one. Still think five years down the road he will be the best edge rusher from the 2014 draft. Yep better than Clowney, Mack and the rest. Dude reminds me of a young John Abraham. So in the OP's scenario, give me Barr and a second and I will make sure to use one of my seconds to move up for Pryor. Use the other second on an OT, then go RB and TE in the third and fourth, plus a NT with my first comp pick.

That would be a great draft. I would be thrilled. And I completely agree with the Abraham comparison. He looks just like him from the edge. I think he would play end in our 4-3 looks and give us a lot of versatility. That draft would be great
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Been on the Barr wagon from day one. Still think five years down the road he will be the best edge rusher from the 2014 draft. Yep better than Clowney, Mack and the rest. Dude reminds me of a young John Abraham. So in the OP's scenario, give me Barr and a second and I will make sure to use one of my seconds to move up for Pryor. Use the other second on an OT, then go RB and TE in the third and fourth, plus a NT with my first comp pick.

Barr in the first from a trade down that nets us a 2nd this year at the minimum.

Take ASJ to solve our TE hole with our first 2nd rounder

Take the best olineman with our next 2nd.

Or trade a 2nd and 3rd to move back into the first to grab Clinton-Dix

We could have a draft of Barr, Clinton-Dix and ASJ. Who can argue that?

Edited by thakrunk1
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Barr in the first from a trade down that nets us a 2nd this year at the minimum.

Take ASJ to solve our TE hole with our first 2nd rounder

Take the best olineman with our next 2nd.

Or trade a 2nd and 3rd to move back into the first to grab Clinton-Dix

We could have a draft of Barr, Clinton-Dix and ASJ. Who can argue that?

That wouldn't be bad at all.

I'm just a bigger Pryor fan than HaHa fan. I'm thinking more like:

Trade down to take Barr in the first

Trade up to take Pryor in the first

Take Morgan Moses in the second with our other second

Pick Seastrunk at RB in the third cause I don't think he'll last to the fourth

Get Fiedorwicz at TE in the fourth

Take a big NT with our comp pick to back up Soliai

Take Aaron Murray in the fifth

J.C. Copeland in the sixth

Use our seventh round picks for depth

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Thank you for admitting it is only "a bit" of a drop off in talent. Most Barr-haters act like he is this awful player

Yes exactly. Mack is the better player, more pro ready today. Understandable he has always played this position. Barr has played it 2 years and yet as comparable stats. Actually superior pass rush stats.

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Barr reminds me of Jamal Anderson. I rather get a sure thing at #6 than a "may develop in 3 years" in the mid to late 1st.

Busterson never had that kind of speed bro. The 2014 draft could shape up to be something like that draft. You had "sure things" like Jamarcus Russell, Levi Brown and Gaines Adams (RIP) go before we picked Busterson. Then a few picks after ours beasts like Patrick Willis and Derrelle Revis got taken. Barr could end up being this year's Willis or Reevis.
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